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New proposed FAA rule requiring remote identification for SUAVs over .55 lbs

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  • #21
    You know guys years ago you had to have a FCC to fly RC. Also the FCC made CB'ers pay for field FCC enforcement rules local. The FAA maybe looking for ways to pay for this, I'm sure their under the gun from this Congress we have for sure. For now its really wait and see what they plan to really do. The big Company's out there maybe pushing to get little Johnny out their airspace so they can run their drones in all airspace. Who knows.

    Comment


    • #22
      Originally posted by JFandL View Post
      You know guys years ago you had to have a FCC to fly RC. Also the FCC made CB'ers pay for field FCC enforcement rules local. The FAA maybe looking for ways to pay for this, I'm sure their under the gun from this Congress we have for sure. For now its really wait and see what they plan to really do. The big Company's out there maybe pushing to get little Johnny out their airspace so they can run their drones in all airspace. Who knows.
      Good points JFandL............ I really hate to feel like I do but the Fed's are pushing and pushing and I am just not willing to consent anymore. Enough is enough! For me, regardless of what they sign into law, I will continue flying R/C just as I have for 30 years. Will anyone come after me? probably not, unless I am doing something stupid like buzzing a police officer driving down the road and that's NEVER gonna happen so I guess they will just have to do what they have to do.

      So, to those of you who will comply without a fight, I ask you, where does this power grab end? If the AMA and all us hobbyists willingly give in without a fight, what will be next? We will be allowed to fly on certain days of the week? Only during certain hours of the day? Have to sign in at some local government office prior to flying? Is this ridiculous? H_LL YES IT IS but, as long as we all go along with whatever the FAA throws at us it could very well be the new norm! If this insanity is not stopped before long, we could eventually fall victim to the same rules and laws that affect real pilots. I think what most fail to understand; if you give any government (aka FAA in this case) an inch, they will take thousands of miles. I witnessed this form of "power grab" with my own eyes and ears working for city & county governments through the years. It is NOT something that won't happen! It can happen and they are laying the ground work for it right now.

      If the AMA is "fighting so hard for us", why have they not contacted me/us asking for my/our input/contribution to fight this? Why has the AMA not formed regional and or district councils that are compiling polls and data from us fliers to use against this crap? Where are the requests for action from us? Where is the AMA "complaint requests" links and letters stating our stand on protecting our freedoms and rights as R/C fliers? As a AMA member, I have not been contacted one time by them asking for support to fight this. Why? Why are there no petitions being sent out to us to sign? Why are there no district or regional meetings organized by the AMA to gain more support? H_ll, I'll drive to the closest and largest city to get involved. However, these are rhetorical questions, I'm very confident in my answers as I have made very clear a couple times above.

      DO NOT misunderstand, as I said before. I spent many years enforcing the State Laws of Texas as a Police Officer. I am NOT a rebel rouser or anything of the sort. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen who is fed up watching the fed's constantly looking for new ways to infringe on our freedoms. However, if they push this garbage through into law, I guess I will officially a "law breaker", LOL. There are thousands of other more important issues facing America's security that they should be worried about and not meddling in our hobby. Again, if drones are the issue, go after and restrict the ones who are causing the problems!

      I know some of you may find my remarks offensive, I'm not here to offend so please don't take it that way..

      EAA# 1366802
      AMA# 631508

      https://vf59.weebly.com/

      Comment


      • #23
        I'm okay with sensible rules and guidelines to enhance safety and knowledge. However, some things end up beyond sensible and unfair. As the saying goes, you give an inch and they take a mile, which is what this is reminding me of.

        Comment


        • #24
          The comment period on this proposed rule is not yet open.

          Once AMA has digested this, there will be another Call to Action campaign. We ALL, whether AMA or not, respond in force. And loudly.

          This is not a done deal and it affects us all.

          Comment


          • #25
            Tech industry insiders say hobbyists are effective lobbyists against commercial drones

            Comment


            • #26
              ft dot com wants us to subscribe to view what you linked.
              FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.

              current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbs

              Comment


              • #27
                Considering FFA's penchant for making things cost more than they have to...

                A transponder is a rather simple radio that sends a repeating number and other limited info in a data block.

                Modern electronics, that could be a device smaller than your smart phone, plug it into the proper antenna and it would be easy to do for under $50. But look at the price of a transponder.

                In mass produced quantities... the remote ID (essentially a transponder) would be easy to get down to a less than 2 oz device with less than $20 each consumer price point. But you can expect the FAA and FCC to ensure the price we'll have to pay for one will be so high that it will make it impractical to continue the hobby.

                My "smartphone" is higher level technology and it cost $40.
                FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.

                current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbs

                Comment


                • #28
                  Originally posted by CVA59 View Post

                  Good points JFandL............ I really hate to feel like I do but the Fed's are pushing and pushing and I am just not willing to consent anymore. Enough is enough! For me, regardless of what they sign into law, I will continue flying R/C just as I have for 30 years. Will anyone come after me? probably not, unless I am doing something stupid like buzzing a police officer driving down the road and that's NEVER gonna happen so I guess they will just have to do what they have to do.

                  So, to those of you who will comply without a fight, I ask you, where does this power grab end? If the AMA and all us hobbyists willingly give in without a fight, what will be next? We will be allowed to fly on certain days of the week? Only during certain hours of the day? Have to sign in at some local government office prior to flying? Is this ridiculous? H_LL YES IT IS but, as long as we all go along with whatever the FAA throws at us it could very well be the new norm! If this insanity is not stopped before long, we could eventually fall victim to the same rules and laws that affect real pilots. I think what most fail to understand; if you give any government (aka FAA in this case) an inch, they will take thousands of miles. I witnessed this form of "power grab" with my own eyes and ears working for city & county governments through the years. It is NOT something that won't happen! It can happen and they are laying the ground work for it right now.

                  If the AMA is "fighting so hard for us", why have they not contacted me/us asking for my/our input/contribution to fight this? Why has the AMA not formed regional and or district councils that are compiling polls and data from us fliers to use against this crap? Where are the requests for action from us? Where is the AMA "complaint requests" links and letters stating our stand on protecting our freedoms and rights as R/C fliers? As a AMA member, I have not been contacted one time by them asking for support to fight this. Why? Why are there no petitions being sent out to us to sign? Why are there no district or regional meetings organized by the AMA to gain more support? H_ll, I'll drive to the closest and largest city to get involved. However, these are rhetorical questions, I'm very confident in my answers as I have made very clear a couple times above.

                  DO NOT misunderstand, as I said before. I spent many years enforcing the State Laws of Texas as a Police Officer. I am NOT a rebel rouser or anything of the sort. I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen who is fed up watching the fed's constantly looking for new ways to infringe on our freedoms. However, if they push this garbage through into law, I guess I will officially a "law breaker", LOL. There are thousands of other more important issues facing America's security that they should be worried about and not meddling in our hobby. Again, if drones are the issue, go after and restrict the ones who are causing the problems!

                  I know some of you may find my remarks offensive, I'm not here to offend so please don't take it that way..
                  I'm going to fly no matter what happens. Right now the FAA could not enforce anything, no money it's all going for the grand Impeachment for the last two years. We really don't know what if anything will happen for sure. Like I said no matter what they say I'm flying! I think what you said is just fine after all its how you feel and that I can respect. As a Vet I could really unload on D.C. but this is for sure not the right place for that, LOL

                  Comment


                  • #29
                    Here is the text release from the FAA. Notice this is a proposed rule from Department of Transportation.
                    Press Release – U.S. Department of Transportation Issues Proposed Rule on Remote ID for Drones

                    Comment


                    • #30
                      Well, the FAA is a Department of Transportation agency, just like the armed forces fall under DoD, and Border & Customs and ICE fall under DHS.

                      Comment


                      • #31
                        Originally posted by fhhuber View Post
                        ft dot com wants us to subscribe to view what you linked.
                        Model aircraft enthusiasts prove unlikely foe for Amazon

                        Tech industry insiders say hobbyists are effective lobbyists against commercial drones

                        Kiran Stacey in Upper Marlboro, Maryland

                        May 2 2019

                        Mark Kitka does not look like your average activist. A stocky former navy pilot with a neat white moustache, he has spent the last two years lovingly recreating the S3-Viking he flew for the military in near-perfect model form.But Mr Kitka is also part of a group of model aircraft enthusiasts who have proven to be one of the most effective lobby groups in the US against rules that would allow widespread commercial drone flying. Technology executives say the Academy of Model Aeronautics has been an unexpectedly powerful opponent in the race to get their aircraft airborne, adding the group is one of the main reasons Amazon and others are still unable to deliver their goods by drone. “We are all waiting for the Federal Aviation Administration to come up with the rules which would allow commercial drones to fly,” said one lawyer working in the sector. “But every time the regulator proposes something that would also impinge on model aircraft hobbyists, the AMA bombards members of Congress with emails and phone calls. ”The AMA says it wants to be excluded from any rules the FAA proposes, arguing the regulator’s current proposals could cost its members a total of $2bn. Mr Kitka said the rules could mean each individual hobbyist has to pay hundreds of dollars to fit equipment to their models to allow them to be identified remotely by law enforcement or other agencies. “Putting a $1,000 transponder on aeroplanes would be the end of model aircraft flying,” he said in a recent interview at his local flying field in rural Maryland.

                        Under current rules, anybody in the US can buy a drone from a shop and fly it almost anywhere, except over certain protected sites. The main restrictions are that fliers cannot fly their aircraft over people, at night or, crucially, out of their line of sight. Companies wishing to fly drones where their operators cannot see them currently have to register as an airline, as Alphabet’s Wing Aviation did last month. But the cost of complying with airline safety standards is steep, and the FAA is drawing up rules that would allow drones to operate more widely. According to lawyers and industry experts, however, the main sticking point is remote identification. If commercial drones are to fly beyond the line of sight of their users, law enforcement agencies say they must be able to identify immediately who their owners are — otherwise there will be more incidents such as the one that brought London’s Gatwick airport to a standstill last December.

                        But given that current laws do not differentiate between drones and model aircraft, model aircraft fliers worry they will be forced to fit heavy and potentially expensive transponders to the outside of their lovingly-made devices. For some, the added weight could impede their racing performance. For others, it would detract from the perfection of their replicas.“This S3-Viking is the only one like it in the country,” said Mr. Kitka, who has fitted his model with a miniature pilot and printed his own name on the side under the cockpit window. “It is 95 per cent accurate. ”Fellow model aircraft enthusiast Rick Moreland added: “We have competitions to judge how perfect our scale models are. You don’t want anything on the model that wouldn’t be there in real life.”

                        Commercial drone operators, however, vociferously oppose any exemptions for model aircraft. In a submission to the regulator in 2017, the Commercial Drone Alliance argued: “For tracking regulation to be successful, it is imperative that any such regulations encompass all but the smallest and most unsophisticated UAS [unmanned aircraft systems] in order to be effective.” The regulator is due to publish its recommendations on remote identification later this year, but the date keeps getting pushed back as it looks for ways to accommodate the concerns of various groups, including the model aircraft community. The FAA said: “We look forward to engaging with the model aircraft community when the time comes to ensure the policy that is eventually implemented focuses on the safety and security of the national airspace for all participants, as well as protecting people and property on the ground, while also continuing to support a vibrant model aircraft community to the maximum extent feasible.”

                        Many commercial drone advocates say they have been surprised at how effective the AMA’s lobbying effort has been. “We didn’t realise they were so well connected on Capitol Hill,” said one tech industry lobbyist. A look around the clubhouse at Mr Kitka’s flying field helps explain why. Both he and Mr Moreland are former military members. Eric Holmes, another club member, is an aerospace engineer at Nasa. Ray Stinchcomb worked for years at the FAA. “The AMA have been great advocates on remote identification,” said Mark Aitken, a senior policy adviser and drone specialist at the Washington law firm Akin Gump. “They have done very well on understanding and navigating the political lay of the land.” A technology industry lobbyist put it more bluntly. “The AMA is a very powerful group in US politics. It’s something the commercial drone industry has struggled to grapple with.”

                        Comment


                        • #32
                          Originally posted by fhhuber View Post
                          Considering FFA's penchant for making things cost more than they have to...

                          A transponder is a rather simple radio that sends a repeating number and other limited info in a data block.

                          Modern electronics, that could be a device smaller than your smart phone, plug it into the proper antenna and it would be easy to do for under $50. But look at the price of a transponder.

                          In mass produced quantities... the remote ID (essentially a transponder) would be easy to get down to a less than 2 oz device with less than $20 each consumer price point. But you can expect the FAA and FCC to ensure the price we'll have to pay for one will be so high that it will make it impractical to continue the hobby.

                          My "smartphone" is higher level technology and it cost $40.
                          For non-FPV recreational RC fliers, the type of transponder proposed is the kind that transmits the location of the pilot, not the aircraft itself.

                          Comment


                          • #33
                            RC car racers already have very small transponders that they use to log their laps. they are around $20.00 but the range is very limited.

                            Comment


                            • #34
                              Originally posted by fredmdbud View Post

                              Model aircraft enthusiasts prove unlikely foe for Amazon

                              Tech industry insiders say hobbyists are effective lobbyists against commercial drones

                              Kiran Stacey in Upper Marlboro, Maryland

                              May 2 2019

                              Mark Kitka does not look like your average activist. A stocky former navy pilot with a neat white moustache, he has spent the last two years lovingly recreating the S3-Viking he flew for the military in near-perfect model form.But Mr Kitka is also part of a group of model aircraft enthusiasts who have proven to be one of the most effective lobby groups in the US against rules that would allow widespread commercial drone flying. Technology executives say the Academy of Model Aeronautics has been an unexpectedly powerful opponent in the race to get their aircraft airborne, adding the group is one of the main reasons Amazon and others are still unable to deliver their goods by drone. “We are all waiting for the Federal Aviation Administration to come up with the rules which would allow commercial drones to fly,” said one lawyer working in the sector. “But every time the regulator proposes something that would also impinge on model aircraft hobbyists, the AMA bombards members of Congress with emails and phone calls. ”The AMA says it wants to be excluded from any rules the FAA proposes, arguing the regulator’s current proposals could cost its members a total of $2bn. Mr Kitka said the rules could mean each individual hobbyist has to pay hundreds of dollars to fit equipment to their models to allow them to be identified remotely by law enforcement or other agencies. “Putting a $1,000 transponder on aeroplanes would be the end of model aircraft flying,” he said in a recent interview at his local flying field in rural Maryland.

                              Under current rules, anybody in the US can buy a drone from a shop and fly it almost anywhere, except over certain protected sites. The main restrictions are that fliers cannot fly their aircraft over people, at night or, crucially, out of their line of sight. Companies wishing to fly drones where their operators cannot see them currently have to register as an airline, as Alphabet’s Wing Aviation did last month. But the cost of complying with airline safety standards is steep, and the FAA is drawing up rules that would allow drones to operate more widely. According to lawyers and industry experts, however, the main sticking point is remote identification. If commercial drones are to fly beyond the line of sight of their users, law enforcement agencies say they must be able to identify immediately who their owners are — otherwise there will be more incidents such as the one that brought London’s Gatwick airport to a standstill last December.

                              But given that current laws do not differentiate between drones and model aircraft, model aircraft fliers worry they will be forced to fit heavy and potentially expensive transponders to the outside of their lovingly-made devices. For some, the added weight could impede their racing performance. For others, it would detract from the perfection of their replicas.“This S3-Viking is the only one like it in the country,” said Mr. Kitka, who has fitted his model with a miniature pilot and printed his own name on the side under the cockpit window. “It is 95 per cent accurate. ”Fellow model aircraft enthusiast Rick Moreland added: “We have competitions to judge how perfect our scale models are. You don’t want anything on the model that wouldn’t be there in real life.”

                              Commercial drone operators, however, vociferously oppose any exemptions for model aircraft. In a submission to the regulator in 2017, the Commercial Drone Alliance argued: “For tracking regulation to be successful, it is imperative that any such regulations encompass all but the smallest and most unsophisticated UAS [unmanned aircraft systems] in order to be effective.” The regulator is due to publish its recommendations on remote identification later this year, but the date keeps getting pushed back as it looks for ways to accommodate the concerns of various groups, including the model aircraft community. The FAA said: “We look forward to engaging with the model aircraft community when the time comes to ensure the policy that is eventually implemented focuses on the safety and security of the national airspace for all participants, as well as protecting people and property on the ground, while also continuing to support a vibrant model aircraft community to the maximum extent feasible.”

                              Many commercial drone advocates say they have been surprised at how effective the AMA’s lobbying effort has been. “We didn’t realise they were so well connected on Capitol Hill,” said one tech industry lobbyist. A look around the clubhouse at Mr Kitka’s flying field helps explain why. Both he and Mr Moreland are former military members. Eric Holmes, another club member, is an aerospace engineer at Nasa. Ray Stinchcomb worked for years at the FAA. “The AMA have been great advocates on remote identification,” said Mark Aitken, a senior policy adviser and drone specialist at the Washington law firm Akin Gump. “They have done very well on understanding and navigating the political lay of the land.” A technology industry lobbyist put it more bluntly. “The AMA is a very powerful group in US politics. It’s something the commercial drone industry has struggled to grapple with.”
                              Mic drop...

                              Thanks!

                              Comment


                              • #35
                                fredmdbud , Thanks for posting that. I knew I had seen it somewhere, but couldn't find it.


                                There could be a plus side to this as well. If commercial drones will be able to see our aircraft, maybe I won't loose a $3k+ bird to a collision with a large pepperoni pizza!

                                Comment


                                • #36

                                  Comment


                                  • #37
                                    Originally posted by JFandL View Post
                                    RC car racers already have very small transponders that they use to log their laps. they are around $20.00 but the range is very limited.
                                    Those are just transmitting the car ID number and are so short range they have to drive directly over the receiver antenna, which is less than an inch under the dirt.
                                    They are low power on purpose so they won't trigger a sensor that is further around the track. Usually there are 4 to 6 sensors spaced around the track and the car has to pass over them in the correct order, or go past the last one crossed in correct order and then continue in the correct order again for laps to count. (so the guys flipping cars back upright at the local track toss the cars back over the line if they are near a sensor line)

                                    But, yes, the transponders can be cheap.
                                    We have telemetry in some RXs that are under $50 and they transmit back at full range of the 2.4 ghz RC system. Add the appx $15 GPS module and you have almost as much data going back to the TX as is recorded in some commuter airline flight controls black boxes. (No cockpit voice recorder) It already has the TX ID and RX (which is transmitting back the telemetry) ID encoded in the 2.4ghz communication protocol...That is how it knows to reject data blocks from other transmitters.

                                    If you have telemetry, you have easily more data going back to your TX than the FAA needs for their system. You just have to send it out on their desired frequency in their desired data format.
                                    And this is where the FAA and FCC are going to cause you high cost.
                                    FF gliders and rubber power since 1966, CL 1970-1990, RC since 1975.

                                    current planes from 1/2 oz to 22 lbs

                                    Comment


                                    • #38
                                      HAHAHAHAHA, I love the wrapping they put in on this "proposal" as relayed to us "sheep" in the video. "Oh, it's all about safety, enhancing the products, and so on, blah blah, blah". This is so comical to me, I will continue to stand on the opinion that this is strictly about the FAA having total power & control over us and our harmless hobby. There have been terrorists forever, manned aircraft since 1903 and R/C aircraft since 1938, but now, this is all such a HUGE problem that they have to create laws to govern our hobby, LOL. Again, the FAA can script all the detailed rules, plans and guidelines they want. However, "Mr. FAA"..........I am very proud to keep stating that I WILL NOT comply today, tomorrow or 4 years from now with your lies, rules or guidelines pertaining to a hobby that I have been peacefully doing for 30 years without one single incident!

                                      To all the IDIOTS at the FAA who think this new "law" will stop stupid people from flying drones in places they shouldn't, IT WON'T! There will ALWAYS be stupid people flying drones in airspace where they have no business flying them! If this would forever and 100% stop the idiots out there who have created this crap from doing stupid stuff with their drones, I would be in 100% and agree totally but, IT WON'T! Any moron with the mental function of say, a mosquito, knows that. Again, because of a few bad apples who don't care about the AMA or protecting our hobby are simply going to laugh at the FAA and keep right on flying their drones in any unsafe manner they choose. These people have no vested interest in our hobby, they have no clue what we are trying to preserve and protect, they could care less. However, now, it appears that we all are going to have to suffer because of that element as with so many other things in life.

                                      For all of you who feel like to do, you might want to go consider buying all the receivers & transmitters you can afford. I figure when (if) this FAA insanity actually happens, they will require all the transmitter & receiver makers to install the required remote ID crap before they can sell their products. I'm quite sure they will cover all the areas they can.

                                      Every person who fly's R/C should be writing letters to the FAA immediately! I will begin mine today.


                                      This guy says IT ALL!
                                      In this video I personally challenge the FAA to present the comprehensive risk analysis they have used in order to justify the latest proposed rule that woul...

                                      EAA# 1366802
                                      AMA# 631508

                                      https://vf59.weebly.com/

                                      Comment


                                      • #39
                                        Originally posted by CVA59 View Post
                                        Every person who fly's R/C should be writing letters to the FAA immediately! I will begin mine today.
                                        Yes, you should - the proposed rule will inevitably be different in its final draft, especially if the AMA membership machine gets in gear ...

                                        Comment


                                        • #40
                                          Hi all. I'm a guy who got back into RC planes 4-5 years ago, after a 20 year hiatus. Recently, due to "life and stuff" I haven't flown in the last 2 years. Part of the trouble was finding a field nearby. Almost all of the local fields were controlled by large clubs who required joining the club in order to fly there. In addition, AMA membership and insurance were needed. Not a big deal IF I wanted to fly 4-5 days a week, but I don't. I've gone to state parks and tried flying on empty grass meadows and soccer fields, only to be chased by park rangers and referred to the "organized" legal field within the park. I threw my hands up and decided to put flying on the back burner.

                                          This past week, I joined AMA and got a "Park Flyer" membership for $38/year. I figured this would at least get me admittance as a guest to a "legal" field. I especially wanted to bring 2 of my planes (28"-36" hi-wing trainers) down to SC so I could show my 2 grandsons how grandpa flies and crashes :-)). As I scanned AMA's website and read about things like Remote ID and FAA registration requirements, I'm beginning to think that it's not worth it to jump through all these hoops just to fly through a couple of batteries and go home. To rub more salt in the wound, I discover that the field in SC does not accept Park Flyer AMA Memberships.

                                          So I'm in a quandary - do I register with the FAA and adorn my ID on my planes just to be considered "Field Legal" and gain access to a Club and it's facilities, do I go rogue and hunt for schoolyards and local parks and hope not to get caught, or do I throw all my stuff in a dumpster and call it quits?

                                          Comment

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