E-flite Draco X 2.0m

[SanExup]

xviper Conceptually it's cool. But the mass hyping of it scared me off. The announcements and previews seemed more like a push than a release. I felt at that point that the reviews were going to be biased. I think there's something in my nature that causes me to reject that. Maybe I'm just allergic to Bull****.

Truly, I'd like to see 4th, 5th, 6th flight reviews of planes. I'm certainly more interested in that than an unboxing. I'd rather watch my neices and nephews unbox presents and spaz out over the dopamine rush than watch an adult pull plane pieces out of a box. I do like watching Motion's build videos though, it's not the same thing. They are more task oriented than hype. And you get to see the model without the box and packaging, and canned enthusiasm.

But as I said, the Draco conceptually is cool. It's a unique Stol/bushplane. I know it has Wilga DNA, I've always wanted a Wilga since way back. And a Wilga with bush tires, cool lights, an attractive wing design and landing gear, and power. It definitely has peaked my interest a few times. But I opted to hold off for real reviews of it. Now to hear it flies heavy and reading of some of it's issues, and not really seeing performance that makes it better than other less expensive bush planes, makes me think that it doesn't have the value to warrant the price. Though had I bought it, I would tinker through and try to resolve the issues and fly it hard. But I hear you, it's less frustrating to buy a plane with known issues and vetted fixes, than to be on the bleeding edge. I wonder how it flies with skis?

[xviper]

xviperThe announcements and previews seemed more like a push than a release. I felt at that point that the reviews were going to be biased.

I wonder how it flies with skis?

There's no doubt that they were "pushes" and the "reviews" were, well, we know what they were. Imagine if one of these "reviewers" ever said anything bad about a new release, you can bet your bottom dollar that will be the LAST free plane they'll get from the manufacturer. As one such "reviewer" said on the other open forum ..................... He was expected and more or less told to cross post about the plane whenever he could. Of course, we all know that cross posting is against any forum rule, but when it comes to sponsored directives, moderators turn a blind eye. Yet, if any of us did anything remotely similar, we'd get a demerit point and a stern PM.

I plan to put skiis on my DRACO next winter, so I'll tell you what it's like. This, of course, is dependent upon whether I still have the thing by then.

[Rc peludo]

My draco have an accident becouse i put second point flap and the engine reverse in the fly!!!!

[WrightBrosRC]

There's no doubt that they were "pushes" and the "reviews" were, well, we know what they were. Imagine if one of these "reviewers" ever said anything bad about a new release, you can bet your bottom dollar that will be the LAST free plane they'll get from the manufacturer. As one such "reviewer" said on the other open forum ..................... He was expected and more or less told to cross post about the plane whenever he could. Of course, we all know that cross posting is against any forum rule, but when it comes to sponsored directives, moderators turn a blind eye. Yet, if any of us did anything remotely similar, we'd get a demerit point and a stern PM.

I plan to put skiis on my DRACO next winter, so I'll tell you what it's like. This, of course, is dependent upon whether I still have the thing by then.

The manufactured hype is certainly a detractor. Every retailer/manufacturer falls prey to it at some point (greed/maximum profits/investment return), but sales is like politics, only speak of the positive points, never the negative, and most importantly, never admit your mistakes.

I put skis on mine but the snow never accumulated here. Maybe next year...

[xviper]

The manufactured hype is certainly a detractor. Every retailer/manufacturer falls prey to it at some point (greed/maximum profits/investment return), but sales is like politics, only speak of the positive points, never the negative, and most importantly, never admit your mistakes.

I put skis on mine but the snow never accumulated here. Maybe next year...

I never gave any updates regarding the skis from a previous post. That's because I never did it. Experience with smaller, lighter planes showed that skis have to be quite large and oversized when the snow is fresh and soft. It isn't until the snow has gone through a couple of warm ups and re-freezing that skis actually work well. Even on a light plane, too small of skis just causes the gear to submarine and bury themselves. The DRACO is quite heavy, so skis need to be big or must be used when the snow/ice is hard. That being the case, I think large tires would be just as good, if not better and present less aerodynamic affects in the air. A few weeks ago, rather than skis, I installed a set of HobbyKing Grand Tundra tires. These are a bit larger diameter than the stock tires and much wider. I have yet to try them out in the snow but I'm predicting that big tires will work well. Additionally, I'm hoping the bigger, softer tires will aid in smoothing out the landings, which in stock form, makes for very bouncy landings. If these new tires don't do the job, I'm thinking this plane will be leaving my collection later in the spring. Selling will be difficult unless the price is greatly reduced since most of the hobby shops near and far have had 2 or 3 of them sitting on their shelves since long before last flying season slowed down. I predict the DRACO will end up being discontinued sooner than most products we've seen from Eflite.

[WrightBrosRC]

I have flown several times with skis, both retail and home made versions. Snow conditions vary and it does not scale down so yes, the skis change with conditions. Pontoons work for powder in a pinch. Also, a snow covered runway is very different than a snow covered field. So many factors to consider. Ski sizes can effect flight as well.

[Wild Man]

Skis Only Work on hard packed snow. I tried skis many, many, years ago and gave up on them due to flipping the planes in the snow. Now I only fly my Planes With Floats on them. The planes with floats seem to fly better and land slower with the floats on them. Here is a short Video of one on floats in the snow The plane is an E-flite Air Tractor and off the snow with the floats on the Air Tractor is a blast to play around with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WL9BjhN2Ia4&t=203s in a choppy field like this skis would be very undesirable
.

[Joehockey]

Hi All
Just joining the party with no expectations lol .
I purchased mine used and it had definitely been crashed. The seller sold it to me for a steal so I can’t complain. He said “ I dont like the way the model flys”

I have 5 flights on mine and I am making adjustments as I go but I need some advice please.

I absolutely can not use the flaps in the stock set up. First off the original owner had so much up in the elevator that I almost lost the model on maiden.
My question for the thread ( please ) is there an ideal flap /elevator mix?

In testing the flaps 3 mistake high all i get is major pitch up, regardless of partial or full flaps.
Thanks for any help you can provide.

[xviper]

Elevator compensation for flaps is purely a matter of individual set up. It all depends on how and when you use the flaps and what delay you put on the deployment. If you're the type that has no delay and just slams the flaps down BEFORE you slow the plane down, then you will get severe ballooning. If you fly the plane like a real plane where flaps don't get deployed until the plane has slowed down some (like in preparation for the landing sequence) and you deploy the flaps slowly (with some delay programmed in), elevator compensation is less needed, if at all. You need to determine this for yourself. Deploy the flaps (1/2 and full) as you would do (normally for you) and see what the plane does. Then dial in some compensation for the next flight and repeat till you get the reaction that works for you.
As a note .................... this plane really does NOT need flaps at all for anything. Flaps are a novelty for the model and are only there because the real DRACO has them. A new guy at our field came one day with his brand spanking new DRACO. He put it on the runway, set 1/2 flaps (as he's learned for take off) and "gave 'er". The thing went straight vertical, he panicked, did all the wrong things and it did a wing over and came straight down. That very expensive plane lasted him less than 10 seconds.
This model flies perfectly well WITHOUT flaps in almost every scenario. It actually lands better without flaps and at a higher speed. Using the flaps is more like playing with it and experimenting with something different. Fly it without flaps, get it trimmed properly and get a feel for how it works as is, then experiment with flaps after that.

[Joehockey]

Thanks I did not what flaps were for, pretty cool invention. I usually deploy flaps at full speed in a dive for best results like dive bomber ( Dauntless) that’s my flying style .
i have flown the plane 5 times , no flaps , landed perfectly, understand 100% how to fly this plane, the wing & all the elements designed into this wing.
in fact I have incorporated VGs into many of my early warbirds that were designed with poor washout.
My question was on ideal settings that others have found on elevator flap setting, that was it . Why ?
Because, sure this model is like a heavy wing loaded trainer, however if you truly want to enjoy its advanced design short runway, bad runways, crosswind challenges, high wind days, you learn the use of flaps / stabilizer settings. Considering, my plane was an aftermarket purchased I figured I would ask a basic settings question.
For the record flap response is not just a style of how you fly, wing loading, wind, airspeed ,
design, we can go on and on but perhaps someone can be kind enough to just provide their ideal settings on a 6s 5000 lipo for flap elevator mix. I will start from that range, obviously the stock settings are too extreme for my flying style

[Joehockey]

Wow what a night !
Programed flaps setting 1) 10 %down elevator and landing setting 2 )15% down elevator, plane slows to a crawl .
Did all the test 3 mistakes high and nice controlled decent ( power all the way ) but still a gentle giant

[tony.wheeler]

I've configured my PnP Draco (with AR637T Rx) and it's all working but I'd welcome advice on 2 things:

- can I make settings that inhibit selection of reverse before idle is set? I see nothing in the manual and mine will switch with power on (tested at v low power).

- I'd like to set a small amount of rudder with aileron (just like the BnF version has by default. Advice on the amount to set would be welcome.

Thanks for any help. I've yet to fly it but very soon...

Regards
Tony (UK flyer)

[xviper]

I've configured my PnP Draco (with AR637T Rx) and it's all working but I'd welcome advice on 2 things:

- can I make settings that inhibit selection of reverse before idle is set? I see nothing in the manual and mine will switch with power on (tested at v low power).

- I'd like to set a small amount of rudder with aileron (just like the BnF version has by default. Advice on the amount to set would be welcome.

Thanks for any help. I've yet to fly it but very soon...

Regards
Tony (UK flyer)

Do you mean you do NOT want the motor to reverse until you've brought the throttle to idle? If so, I don't think it can be done, at least, not easily. As it is, it's up to you to lower the throttle to zero before you throw the reverse switch. This ESC is designed to be able to go into reverse under full power. It doesn't hurt anything as the ESC will apply the brake first and only go to reverse when it determines that the motor has slowed down sufficiently.
The BNF DRACO already has a AIL to RUD mix. For a PNP, why don't you just do your own mix? Something like AIL>RUD and start small and dial in just a little bit and increase as you desire.

[tony.wheeler]

Do you mean you do NOT want the motor to reverse until you've brought the throttle to idle? If so, I don't think it can be done, at least, not easily. As it is, it's up to you to lower the throttle to zero before you throw the reverse switch. This ESC is designed to be able to go into reverse under full power. It doesn't hurt anything as the ESC will apply the brake first and only go to reverse when it determines that the motor has slowed down sufficiently.
The BNF DRACO already has a AIL to RUD mix. For a PNP, why don't you just do your own mix? Something like AIL>RUD and start small and dial in just a little bit and increase as you desire.

Thanks. It just seems wrong to be able to shock load the motor by changing prop direction when in use..I'll change via idle (prop stop) after landing when try it. I operate off grass and if I need reverse something will have gone very wrong 😉.

I've added the aileron/rudder mix at 10% but just wanted to know how much of a mix the BNF version came with. I'm well used to the use of rudder to balance the turn (in my Carbon Z Cub SS) so guess I'll actually need to mix at all in any case.

Tony

[xviper]

I can't say in terms of % how much the rudder moves when coupled with AIL. I just recall that it is very noticeable. Just keep adding till it feels right to you.
As I said, the reverse was designed in all these modern day reversing ESCs to hit the brake first before going reverse. Gone are the days of the early HobbyKing reversing ESCs where they warn you to wait till the motor stops on it's own before going into reverse. Those did not have an auto stop feature. You had to lower the throttle to zero and wait, even if you set a hard brake. They just weren't robust enough to survive repeated throttle ON reversing.
If you're really concerned or it bothers you to do it, you "may be able" eliminate the reverse feature by trying to go into the Avian programming and defeating the reverse. The Avian programming should be found by just scrolling on the main model screen, then follow the instructions on how to enter the menu. This must be done within 30 seconds after powering up the plane. Where it says "reverse", just change it.

[tony.wheeler]

I can't say in terms of % how much the rudder moves when coupled with AIL. I just recall that it is very noticeable. Just keep adding till it feels right to you.
As I said, the reverse was designed in all these modern day reversing ESCs to hit the brake first before going reverse. Gone are the days of the early HobbyKing reversing ......

Thanks for the info, and reassurances about the reverse and braking. I saw a video of Brian Phillips and saw that when he tested the Safe Select mode (by rolling the model upside down passed wings level) that the rudder applied (by mixing), when the ailerons corrected to level fight, was quite large too.

In setting-up AS3X, and Safe, I've accepted the default settings (AS3X Gain, and Safe Gain) on previous non HH models. However, I caught a glimpse of the telemetry screen on a HH Draco video. It showed the settings below, so I'll apply them to my AR637T on one of the flight modes, and leave the defaults on other modes then I can compare.

AS3X Gains:

Roll. 70
Pitch. 90
Yaw. 95

SAFE Gains:

Roll. 42
Pitch. 80
Yaw. 0

Is this what others have applied? All being well I'll soon get to take it to the field in the next week 👍. TIA

Tony

[xviper]

Spektrum Safe Select receivers do tend to use quite high gains when compared to other gyros like HobbyEagle, Freewing, FMS, Pulsar, etc. Because the DRACO is a big, heavy, relatively slow flying STOL model, the gains tend to be even higher. I can't tell you what others have applied as I believe most people who bought the PNP don't use a gyro at all as this plane's flight characteristic are so benign and very little affected by winds and other outside forces. Personally, mine was a BNF as were the other 2 DRACOs at my field and I never even looked at what the gains were. At that time, for an extra 30 bucks, why not get a $115.00 RX thrown in?
The reverse was a novelty and most of us stopped using it after the first few flights and we flew off a GeoTex runway - never needed to shorten the land roll. However, what this plane showed us and what it taught us was that reverse was the next up and coming great thing. Shortly after the DRACO's release, came the 90mm Viper with reverse. That started a whole trend in EDF propulsion. Many of my jets now have thrust reverse.

[Wild Man]

I never gave any updates regarding the skis from a previous post. That's because I never did it. Experience with smaller, lighter planes showed that skis have to be quite large and oversized when the snow is fresh and soft. It isn't until the snow has gone through a couple of warm ups and re-freezing that skis actually work well. Even on a light plane, too small of skis just causes the gear to submarine and bury themselves. The DRACO is quite heavy, so skis need to be big or must be used when the snow/ice is hard. That being the case, I think large tires would be just as good, if not better and present less aerodynamic affects in the air. A few weeks ago, rather than skis, I installed a set of HobbyKing Grand Tundra tires. These are a bit larger diameter than the stock tires and much wider. I have yet to try them out in the snow but I'm predicting that big tires will work well. Additionally, I'm hoping the bigger, softer tires will aid in smoothing out the landings, which in stock form, makes for very bouncy landings. If these new tires don't do the job, I'm thinking this plane will be leaving my collection later in the spring. Selling will be difficult unless the price is greatly reduced since most of the hobby shops near and far have had 2 or 3 of them sitting on their shelves since long before last flying season slowed down. I predict the DRACO will end up being discontinued sooner than most products we've seen from Eflite.

All the planes that I fly off Snow have floats on them. Ski's are worthless in Deep soft snow, it's known as LGP. which means ( LOW GROUND PRESSURE ) MY 2.1 CESSNA 150 WITH REVERSE THRUST AND MY AIR
TRACTOR are two of my favorite ( SNOW FLOATER's ) never did like ski's unless the snow was hard packed or just having fun on an Icy lake is the only place for Ski's Thats my Opinion and I will stick to it LOL!!!!

[Wild Man]

I just Purchased two more DRACO'S, one for my bother, and one for my grandson, and I may order one more just for back up incase I do something bad to my Original purchase the day they came out, the big wheels are great, there is no reason to pit soft tires on this plane to correct or help it from bouncing on landing. Perfect landings are done by being proficient at doing so. I have bounced mine a few time but that was due to getting to slow when landing I found by caring about 20% throttle I can grease it in every time.m Perfect landings with any plane take practice, practice, practice, if you are bouncing this plane on landing you redoing some thing wrong. Granted great landings are not done every time but can be done more often with practice. The Draco was not designed for Aerobatics this is a BUSH PLANE designed to be flown in all terrain and short take off and landings, also the power it has was not meant for speed but for short steep take off such as off a sand bar in the middle of a river. I lave mine and is my go to plane to fly at night the darker the better My first Draco is still flying and has been flown all over the US. I live in SD and every time I go see my Daughter in AZ I will stop in every state on the way and fly. The guys in Sedona were surprised when I backed it out on their runway flipped the switch and took off. Then on landing touched down and had it stopped in 3'. I have also flown it down in the open Cut pit mine in Deadwood SD. Kinda weird looking at the top of the plane 300' below were you are standing then bring it back up and land