Official Skynetic Bison XT STOL Discussion Thread

[ebrahimijohn]

Second flight and I am feeling more comfortable. Went down to a 4000mah battery and moved it about 1 inch forward and that felt good in the air. Definitely increasing rudder input made alot of difference, but it was too windy to experiment with slow flap down flying today. I am thinking about removing the slats entirely and installing vortex generators.

[Starck Mad]

I had my maiden flight this morning and I am having a few issues that some of you had. #1 The plane banks left, and the trim helps it but limits my right aileron turns. I have opted not to hook up the slats and have fixed them in the all the way closed position, but they look a little wavy. #2 CG is set at 77mm from the front of the slats with a 6S5000mah. I feel like I need to move the battery forward, flying slow with the flaps was very unstable to the point I landed with the flaps up. This thing had power to spare and the tires and landing gear worked perfect taking off and landing in pretty soft sand at the beach. I had a little tracking issue during take off, but landing and taxi the rear wheel worked great. This is by far the largest RC plane I have flown and am exited about getting it dialed in so I can fly it some more. Any tips or suggestions are welcome.

If you feel like you might like the CG more forward try that. Set up is a personal feel thing anyway. I would try to measure the gap on your slats (trailing edge to the top of the wing). It won't be much. If there is a difference from one slat to the other...make them match.

One of the main things is any plane with slats is going to require a great deal of rudder...the Bison is no exception and is sensitive to rudder. Your turns need to be initiated with rudder rather than aileron. If you are coordinating it right the ailerons will only be used to control bank angle if the plane banks more than you want it to with rudder (slight opposite aileron correction). In slow, higher alpha flight corrections need to made with rudder...big aileron corrections when slow, hanging on the slats...can cause an off camber stall. If it is"wing rocking" when you do this its because you are chasing the corrections with aileron and close to stalling it. Use rudder instead.

This is a more advanced plane to fly well...especially slow, but with proper technique it is a fun and rewarding experience. Practice these techniques and hopefully slow flight will be more fun for you. BTW...this isn't a problem with the Bison per say...it is a characteristic of any high wing plane with slats. I hope this helps man! Happy flying.

[Evan D]

Noted, still interested in what happened with your plane and in the end what Motion did or said.

I will confirm that Motion filters their reviews, I have tried twice, the second time using the confirmed buyer link in my email, and neither has been posted. Its not been a good experience with their service either, and I sadly do NOT recommend anyone do business with them if they have any option. My business with them is finally complete, their behavior with reviews made me fear repercussions during their customer service process if I posted anything.

[ebrahimijohn]

I had my maiden flight this morning and I am having a few issues that some of you had. #1 The plane banks left, and the trim helps it but limits my right aileron turns. I have opted not to hook up the slats and have fixed them in the all the way closed position, but they look a little wavy. #2 CG is set at 77mm from the front of the slats with a 6S5000mah. I feel like I need to move the battery forward, flying slow with the flaps was very unstable to the point I landed with the flaps up. This thing had power to spare and the tires and landing gear worked perfect taking off and landing in pretty soft sand at the beach. I had a little tracking issue during take off, but landing and taxi the rear wheel worked great. This is by far the largest RC plane I have flown and am exited about getting it dialed in so I can fly it some more. Any tips or suggestions are welcome.

[2much2do]

I will confirm that Motion filters their reviews, I have tried twice, the second time using the confirmed buyer link in my email, and neither has been posted. Its not been a good experience with their service either, and I sadly do NOT recommend anyone do business with them if they have any option. My business with them is finally complete, their behavior with reviews made me fear repercussions during their customer service process if I posted anything.

[FlyinTime]

We will never know, unfortunately. Either way, you are free to just post your review here. More will probably see it here than buried on a product page anyway.

Don't sweat it James, at this point I understand that Motion selects what reviews they will let the public see. Sad that a company plays that game. Have a good day.

[FlyinTime]

The one thing I've learned is that as the pilot, it is always 100% my responsibility to check to make sure everything is working to my satisfaction.



And this story finally makes.me.think that possibly you flew with a bad battery. The low power could easily be explained by a battery with high internal resistance. Check your batteries for high IR. No plane will fly with a battery like that.

I can put that theory to rest. Since all I got out of this plane was about 10 seconds, I put the battery in my P51 to run down the battery and it performed just fine.

Like I said before it could have been not doing a throttle learn. Unfortunately I spent a lot of time working on the setup of the rear wheel so it would steer right, working on the front slats so they would work right. Plus I haven't had a problem in the past with an ESC not giving full throttle, maybe just lucky, who knows. But it would have been an important reminder for them to include in their manual, website or even in their assembly video.

For me, after buying 3 different planes from Motion and having to fix things on them that should have been done at the factory (design problems) I will just back away and spend my money where it is appreciated. Have a good day.

[Gilatrout]

The one thing I've learned is that as the pilot, it is always 100% my responsibility to check to make sure everything is working to my satisfaction.

That means watt testing That means checking and calibrating the esc
That means checking to see if all controls are properly glued
That means checking to see servo travel and direction is correct.
that mean programming or verifying programming in the receiver
than means checking landing gear operation.
that means checking your battery charge and health.

You get the point. Moreover many of these checks should or must be made before each and every flight. It is your responsibility to check the plane before each flight and most especially before the first one.

If something doesn't check out, I will say that every single time Motion has made good on it when it is their fault. Same is true of the other sellers too.

By example, I've watched many a plane go in with the pilot yelling they lost signal. I see what looks like a tip stall. I have the pilot check their radio. Spectrum shows if there was a Loss.of Signal. 99.9% of the time there is no signal loss, the pilot got too slow, too steep in the turn and stalled. Yet the blame goes to the radio.

No one is immune from this. I recently lost my cherished L39. I did my usual checks and everything was fine,.yet when I took off I was very underpowered. I stalled the plane and it went in. What I determined is 1. I turned downwind too soon. 2. I had left my batteries in the car over night because of the meet, and they were cold and not producing despite full charge. Not the manufacturer of the battery's fault. Mine

And this story finally makes.me.think that possibly you flew with a bad battery. The low power could easily be explained by a battery with high internal resistance. Check your batteries for high IR. No plane will fly with a battery like that.

[James]

I NEVER said I hit any trees. I said I needed full throttle to get over the trees. It wouldn't give me any power. It was a lame duck that went from stall to stall and then to the ground. I believe that it was one of 3 things. Bad Motor, Bad ESC or the ESC needed a throttle learn. If it was the fact that I didn't do the throttle learn why don't you have a caution in your instructions or provide the ESC manual. At any rate, the support I got from Motion is saying that it was 100% my fault. At best I might accept 50%. It's ok, I will just stay doing business with the folks that I feel will take care of me if I ever need it.

We will never know, unfortunately. Either way, you are free to just post your review here. More will probably see it here than buried on a product page anyway.

[FlyinTime]

Just read through it and yeah, that's a tough break as there is absolutely no way to know if there was an actual issue with the plane itself or the set-up/piloting. That's the hardest thing with a hobby that fights gravity, unlike many other businesses. When something goes wrong upon leaving the ground, odds drastically decrease for a product's survival. That's why we need all the information to try and make a fair judgment call. But that's impossible with the limited info that was provided.

I feel for you. It sucks. All our CS guys are also hobbyists and we have all had accidents both by fault of an aircraft or by making a pilot error.

As for your review of the aircraft, since you seemingly took off and hit the trees rather quickly, not sure how you could even review the aircraft fully or fairly. So maybe just post your review here instead? This is an open forum for all to see and you are more than free to do so. But again, I don't know if it's been seen yet or not as I don't handle those myself.

Basically, I am giving you the same answer our CS person did above, which I know you don't like, but that's the best we can do in this situation. I haven't seen any other tickets regarding the Bison that claim a lack of power and I have flown it many times and it has more than enough on 6S when set up properly.

All in all, I wish there was a better outcome for you with this one, and even though we couldn't help you this time, I hope it doesn't turn you off from us forever as you can see we do care. Here I am at 9:30 pm empathizing with you off the clock because I, and our company, do care about our customers and try our best to help even if we can't all the time.

I truly wish you all the best in your future RC endeavors whether they are with a Motion RC aircraft, or not.

I NEVER said I hit any trees. I said I needed full throttle to get over the trees. It wouldn't give me any power. It was a lame duck that went from stall to stall and then to the ground. I believe that it was one of 3 things. Bad Motor, Bad ESC or the ESC needed a throttle learn. If it was the fact that I didn't do the throttle learn why don't you have a caution in your instructions or provide the ESC manual. At any rate, the support I got from Motion is saying that it was 100% my fault. At best I might accept 50%. It's ok, I will just stay doing business with the folks that I feel will take care of me if I ever need it.

[Captain MoMo]

Oh boy - I feel for you James .....

[James]

Just read through it and yeah, that's a tough break as there is absolutely no way to know if there was an actual issue with the plane itself or the set-up/piloting. That's the hardest thing with a hobby that fights gravity, unlike many other businesses. When something goes wrong upon leaving the ground, odds drastically decrease for a product's survival. That's why we need all the information to try and make a fair judgment call. But that's impossible with the limited info that was provided.

I feel for you. It sucks. All our CS guys are also hobbyists and we have all had accidents both by fault of an aircraft or by making a pilot error.

As for your review of the aircraft, since you seemingly took off and hit the trees rather quickly, not sure how you could even review the aircraft fully or fairly. So maybe just post your review here instead? This is an open forum for all to see and you are more than free to do so. But again, I don't know if it's been seen yet or not as I don't handle those myself.

Basically, I am giving you the same answer our CS person did above, which I know you don't like, but that's the best we can do in this situation. I haven't seen any other tickets regarding the Bison that claim a lack of power and I have flown it many times and it has more than enough on 6S when set up properly.

All in all, I wish there was a better outcome for you with this one, and even though we couldn't help you this time, I hope it doesn't turn you off from us forever as you can see we do care. Here I am at 9:30 pm empathizing with you off the clock because I, and our company, do care about our customers and try our best to help even if we can't all the time.

I truly wish you all the best in your future RC endeavors whether they are with a Motion RC aircraft, or not.

[FlyinTime]

Do you have your ticket number? I have no idea what actually happened with your situation and we have too many tickets and reviews to possibly try to find it. But I'd love to know what happened.

All I do know is, our customer service reputation is one of the highest in the industry, and more than most know that. But, that doesn't mean we are perfect and don't have detractors as well. Sometimes the final decision is not what people want to hear, but we have a process we follow to try and fully understand a situation. I am sorry we couldn't help you this time.

But if you have a ticket number, then I would have a better understanding of what happened.

I believe this is the number: #T750562, I took it off the Email I got today.

[James]

So a review has to be a particular way? It was a negative review but no name calling or foul language was used, just my personal experience with the product. Motion or James can tell you why they don't want it posted.

Do you have your ticket number? I have no idea what actually happened with your situation and we have too many tickets and reviews to possibly try to find it. But I'd love to know what happened.

All I do know is, our customer service reputation is one of the highest in the industry, and more than most know that. But, that doesn't mean we are perfect and don't have detractors as well. Sometimes the final decision is not what people want to hear, but we have a process we follow to try and fully understand a situation. I am sorry we couldn't help you this time.

But if you have a ticket number, then I would have a better understanding of what happened.

[Thor100]

Was thinking of getting this one but had to give it a miss.
The reason, plane is $399 shipping is $405 to Australia.

[Evan D]

You don’t like it go post a review on my site!

[FlyinTime]

Yes Sir they are so innocent and perfect, just like you !!

[Evan D]

I can do this all day… Until you tell us what happened they are innocent. The American way unless you were at the Capitol on the 6th.

[FlyinTime]

So a review has to be a particular way? It was a negative review but no name calling or foul language was used, just my personal experience with the product. Motion or James can tell you why they don't want it posted.

[Evan D]

Quit calling me names on the two forums and tell us what happened. That they didn’t post a review is not enough to go crazy about. And if your posts here are any indication your review was probably not fit to post.