Black Widow??

[Piano0412]

Could you give us some pics? Where are lead weights?

Oh, btw, I was told today to check the plastic parts which are glued on the fuselage to screw the wings on. They seem to be not glued very well.

[sharpy1071]

Hi Piano Yes had the same problem with struts, will get everything out of box today. The manual is beyond poor, I haven't found these short struts yet!!. Just found them, there are 4 and think they are the guns, gentle force for the main wing struts is required. I'm ordering a servo tester to try and sort out the rats nest of wiring. The 4 pin servo plug is for the lighting via yet another lead with a resistor/blinking light circuit. Just gone to do the cutaway in the fuse and wing for wiring and a lead weight has come loose in the rear cockpit!!

[Piano0412]

Hm, by force it seems that I got the struts deep enough inserted into the outer wings that they would fit to the fuse part of the wings. But to hide the plugs and wires are a PITA :Not-Talking:

I just saw there are four very short struts (in the package with the guns). What are they for? The manual is pretty poor..... :Thinking:

[Piano0412]

Hi Sharpy! I received my Spider plane on Monday. Already posted some pics @ RCG. I just wanted to do some first steps of assembly and have troubles when inserting the strut in the wings. How far should the struts be pushed into the fuse part of the wings? Are you facing the same problem?

[sharpy1071]

Having taken the kit out of the box to check everything, I am wondering if something can be done about the wiring loom. It is a rats nest!! I will look into soldering wires together and eliminating joiners. The instructions leave little information. I at the moment cannot find which cable is for the airelons also there is a servo type joiner with four cables, I am a bit loathed to join it before I know the voltage. I think this is a feed for the lights. Also I am going to invest in a programming card so I can better balance the ESC's. That's it for tonight I will look at some more tomorrow, Brian.

[CFIT rob]

Sharpy...very interested in your build and flight of the widow. Its one im going to get as soon as motion has it available. I have the marauder so im hoping you and your mate can give a report. Suggested Cg working?...build tips etc. Alpha has given us a head start but nothing better the first hand field reports.

[sharpy1071]

Well the P61 has landed! I picked it up today and brought it home along with a Marauder for a mate of mine. First impression is positive, it is a V1 with car type tyres but I think if I put them into a drill or similar they could possibly be sandpapered down to a more round profile. the second photo is of a paper covered foam board P61 which I am in the middle of building from a plan published by flyfoamrc.com. It is a new technique to myself and it needs lots of practice to get right, but I will persevere with. I might do a build blog and give some of my views.

[themudduck]

Alpha I am curious, after 200+ flights how is your bird holding up from being out in the sun? Can you post a closeup pic?
Is this plane made from the same kind of foam or was there any tweaking to help it hold up to the heat?

(I plane to fly mine only at dusk. Because it deserves it.)

[themudduck]

Thank you very much Alpha for your update, its really fun to see the details. As I suspected, its very similar to the B26 in size, motors, props, wheels, battery, and flying style - and I know that I'm going to love it. Thank you for taking the time to do what you do. Its way beyond what other companies do, really no comparison. Go MRC! I love your comment on QC#8 (yes, <sigh>, was that for me?) - no worries at all. Anticipating this beautiful black badass airplane being added to my fleet is making me moist. (when it comes in, I'll have to stare at it all winter waiting for flying season to begin...)

.

[CFIT rob]

Thanks for another look behind the curtain( oh great and powerful oz). For those of us who remember the dark age of foamies (BH,HK non-customer service, Underpowered planes that you had to replace all the electronics to make flyable, folding wings not made to fold.) Its so great to have a true hobbyist pulling levers and pushing buttons behind the curtain. If i only had a br........P61. Glad to hear it flys like the marauder ,really like the way it flys. The long flight time was a real suprise. After xmas arrival meens my wife should be the good witch. Win-win. Wait for better product. No "I'll get you my pretty....and your little plane too.)

[OV10]

Hello Alpha,
Your dedication to this hobby from a business aspect is exemplary.............KUDOS.
From your very first statement of "full discretion" throughout the detailed documentation of your notes (which where reminiscent of my days as a Procurement professional doing FAI's (First Article Inspection)) just so both the Motion and non MRC(possibly soon to be) customers would have a higher level of insight of what to expect of this product is most likely a first in the RC industry.
The time that you expended just writing this piece was way above and beyond the expectation of your already tiring schedule.
GOOD JOB :Cool:

Best regards,

[Hardway]

Howdy Sharpy!!! Welcome to the Squawk... Glad you are here!!!! Jerry

[sharpy1071]

Thanks Alpha Motion for that informative piece. I'm picking mine up on Thursday (9th November) so I will definitely look at those points as mine is going to be the V1 version. Out of general interest my local airport (Hurn as it was called then) was host to 2 Squadrons of P61's during the second WW. There are lots of photos of them when they were here. At the time the airport was built (1942) had the longest concrete runway in Europe so we accommodated heavy planes, the P61 being considered to heavy for our regular grass fields.

[RCjetdude]

He is definitely working for our benefit. I still wonder when he ever sleeps... LOL

[TSHobbies]

glad you guys are on the job..wouldn't it be cool to tag along alpha in his China visits! might feel like Gen MacArthur making 'requests' lol

[borntoolate]

Thanks for the informative update, Alpha! I can wait until the Motion planes are ready.

Bob

[Alpha]

Full discretion, I have not yet confirmed with Dynam which of my edits will be implemented on their 1500mm P-61 Black Widow. That will happen later this month. For those who purchased the pre-edit version from European and Asian sources and have begun taking delivery in November 2017, you'll likely find the same issues/quirks I found when first evaluating the prototype. Frankly and fairly, I still consider that version to be a "pre-production prototype", as far as Motion RC is concerned, which is why we did not purchase it and will not until we are satisfied with the final production version. I will also restate that Motion RC was not aware that Dynam had shipped pre-edit units to other resellers (otherwise I would have said something). I'm posting this really just to help those who received early units, none of whom ordered it from Motion RC. Nevertheless, we're all RC hobbyists so I'm hopeful some may find use of the information I'm providing below. I want to emphasize that my sample did fly, out-of-the-box. My list of edits provided to Dynam was to make it fly better and improve the overall customer experience.

As with any pre-production prototype, where a model is struck from a newly made mold, we evaluate for conditions across several categories before green-lighting mass production. I've arranged my notes here. For those early adopters mentioned above, scanning this list you'll see obvious QC issues and Structural issues. QC issues are mostly cosmetic, and are generally controlled at the factory once the assembly teams and QC teams are trained with myself present. The larger Structural issues require edits to the molds themselves.

On a final note, this list below is not comprehensive. Certain aspects were omitted in fairness to Dynam, because as a product developer I recognize that most issues will be dealt with when the normal full production run begins, from which Motion RC will receive our inventory. If any of you who bought the early version are unhappy with the finish of what you received, I would encourage you to contact the vendor from whom you purchased the product, and politely encourage your vendor to personally evaluate the products they sell before selling them to their customers. This practice will improve the service we as hobbyists expect from our preferred vendors. I always welcome more voices at the reseller level to keep manufacturers accountable.

Things to look out for on a Dynam 1500mm P-61 delivered before ~1/1/2018, based on my pre-production sample #00001 evaluated early 9/2017:

QC, General

1. Paint type. The paint was thin in certain areas. It was also a different type of black paint, with a different heating pattern than other Dynam blacks we evaluated.
2. Painter QC. There were several areas that weren't painted black, mostly the nooks in between control surfaces, and the flat area behind the nose cone. The nose cone itself covers that area once mounted, but there are slivers of white foam visible in between the seams. I requested that Dynam shoot those hidden areas more consistently.
3. Painted areas. I observed that the black plastic parts (wheel covers, intakes, etc) are gloss black, whereas the foam painted areas are dull black. I requested a uniform dull black on all surfaces, whether plastic or foam. Now, the canopy framing would require a very complex external paint mold, so Dynam may leave that as it is. After all, Dynam's primary market/price point isn't intended for super-scale out of the box.
4. Decal color. Again, not the end of the world, but the insignia blue and flesh tone were two colors I provided new Pantones for to bring them closer to period scale.
5. Pilot figures. The pilot figures were too tall to fit under the canopy without trimming below the neck.
6. Glue covering certain holes. When pre-fitting your model's wings, verify that the screws thread fully into the plastic receiver plates. One of mine had hot glue blocking the hole. A lighter-heated paper clip pushed through the hot glue was a simple, easy fix.
7. Dummy engine cowl. Check the gap between the motor shaft and the plastic dummy engine cowl. Ensure nothing binds. Trim if necessary. We had the same issue on the B-26 which we caught in the pre-production sample, and ended up creating a new die to widen the hole in the cowl.
8. Yes, the wheels are reused from the Dynam B-26. Making a new mold wasn't in their budget. Replace with Dubros.
9. Prop nuts. The prop nuts are counter-threaded, so they are side specific. Unlike the B-26, though, the P-61's prop spinner backplates make it difficult to hold the motor in place while you tighten the internal nut. Use pliers on the nut, jam something to keep the motor from spinning, and tighten as much as possible. My original props are still on it after 200+ flights.
10. Overall QC. Having evaluated over 50 "pre-production samples" for various manufacturers, the QC on my sample wasn't great, wasn't horrible, wasn't surprising. Leaky glue, unfinished paint, gaps in assembly, misaligned magnets or insufficient glue, etc. At this phase, the production teams usually aren't fully trained yet to focus on key areas that the vendors (in this case, Motion RC) designate as important. I fully expect many of the minor QC quirks to be ironed out on our final production. I'll personally be at the factory during this time, consulting directly with their production management team.

Structural:

1. Boom-to-wing Fit. The male end (Boom side) leaves very little internal space for slack from the rudder/elevator servo wires and connectors. Trimming the flat end foam is an easy option.
2. Boom rigidity. I flew the model with the stock configuration, which uses two screws per boom. It flew fine, but there was at times too much flex in the rear boom section (to which the elevator is mounted) for my liking, especially during high speed descending banked turns. Ultimately I filled the boom mounting points with Beacon. Epoxy would do fine, as well. This greatly stiffened up the booms and improved the model's predictability.
3. Outer wing rigidity. Dynam recreated the scale anhedral in the outer wings. This makes for a bird with a slow, scale roll rate. While I've logged 200+ flights on the sample without issues with the stock configuration wing panels (two screws), I can imagine some pilots may opt to glue the outer wing panels on for good. This wouldn't be a bad thing and would only help stiffen up the entire experience.
4. Lucky Number 14. This one is important! The wiring was a sizeable rat's nest. Understandable, since there are so many servos and lighting wires, crammed into a narrow fuselage. Dynam doesn't use central circuit boards like Freewing/FlightLine models. Some people prefer using Y-connectors instead, but in Dynam's case, that makes for lots of Y-connectors and an unavoidable mass of wiring. Here is the solution I proposed for Dynam to execute with the final production version. Of all the things above, this one will actually give you a model in which you can fit the battery (i.e. essential), so I'd count this mod as Necessary and Important for all you early adopters.

The sample had wiring that looked like this:


I instructed Dynam to modify the mold to remove foam in the main fuse, and by cutting the red line on the underside of the main wing saddle and removing that extraneous cover. You want the wires to exit the wing at the red dashed line, not ahead of those forward wing screws.



Doing the above cuts, which takes a matter of seconds, now allows most of the wires' Y-connectors to be stuffed into the hollow fuselage near the CG:



In doing so, greatly reducing the wires in the battery bay. Much better!








For ailerons, I'm at 100%, Elevator at 80%, Rudder at 50%. It's quite a cruiser, flies a lot like the B-26. Same motors and props. 4s 4000, long flight time like the B-26. Slow roll, doesn't need a lot of elevator, easy to land without flaps, little to no mixing. Beware the sun and disorientation of this black bird.

I hope this helps you early adopters!

As for potential customers waiting for Motion RC's version, thank you for your patience and we'll circle back when it's ready and confirm what has been implemented on the version we will be stocking.

[handyman220]

I'm still hoping that Motion develops their own P-61. Imagine a Black Widow from Flight Line. Look at the P-38 or the Tigercat both are great looking and flying models at a reasonable cost. I was also not really impressed with the posted pictures of the Dynam P-61. Yes, it is a starting point but overall, not sure it was worth all the hype.

[borntoolate]

just saw photos of the Dynam plane on rcgroups... the dogs are barkin... ruff ruff.... unless Alpha is able to get them to make a lot of changes..looks like I'll be holding out for the next company to try the BW

Same for me. Hopefully Alpha can get an improved plane for us. Not impressed with the pictures. I have limited time to devote to mods, unfortunately.

Bob

[TiredIronGRB]

Just give me the foam baby!