Black Widow??

[RRHandy]

TG, I'm not trying to offend anyone but this kind of product release will continue to be put out and as for the PRICE POINT stated, We should not have to fix poor factory workmanship period, that is the point being stated here and all the acceptance statements to IT'S OK is the point. You and every person willing to Buy and fix inferior product that's on you.
Yes you are trying to put info. out for the masses as I too but that apple is rotten, My last statement on this product. :Not-Talking::Confused:

[TwistedGrin]

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

Ron - You are missing the point and going off to another road.....I am not regretting my purchase nor the airframe......I am a happy camper.

The point is...."some" fellas may purchase this airframe and expect a trouble free assembly and perfect fitment. It's just not going to be this way with this Dynam model. If you know and understand this model will need some degree of modeling to not only make it a pleasure to look at....but also a complete boss in flight performance ....then the experience is much better.

Choose your quality of Airframe and be happy.

My post is not targeted at the master builder, nor the expert pilot, nor the savvy purchaser and purveyor of high dollar airframes....but rather to the average builder who is not familiar with the Dynam series R/C planes.

This particular offering has unique quirks that are now logged as common steps to take care of.....if pilots ascribe to this webpage and RCGroups.com - their own personal build experience will be much easier and less stressful...also as usual....different ideas are shown of how each modeler handles the same challenge.

No worries....all good....and have fun

TwistedGrin

[OV10]

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

Right on Ron ;)Still amazes me that folks consciously shell out good money for inferior product that is not of the value they paid and then try to justify the expenditure with a half page list of pros/cons rationalization.
I do totally concur with TwistedGrin's wish that Motion eventually carry a Flight Line P-61 Black Widow:Drooling:

[RRHandy]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

[Woodcock]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

Nice post! Typical Dynam, I love em, I hate em. But price is always good, as long as you don't consider your time investment. I really dislike, and do not want to build any more models, but I do like to fiddle. Don't mind getting one ready.

However, can you just imagine the amount of grief Motion goes thru with retracts alone. Lots of places offer these, Motion doesn't necessarily have to buy off on all that grief.

Best Regards
Woodcock

[Hardway]

:(:(:( Thanks for the data!

[TwistedGrin]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

[mcriley2]

Just as I've mentioned previously, I'm with MRC and the decisions you make.

Over the last couple of years that I've been, being supplied by my Motion family, I've trusted in your recommendations and products on hand.

If you supply it I will buy. If you don't promote it, I don't need it.

Kinda crazy, right ... :Cool:

[Woodcock]

I believe Durafly is sold exclusively though Hobby King. I don't know if MRC could carry it.

Yea, I'm not sure about that ether. I'm actually not a fan of all there planes. But I've been retraining on the EFXtra's. I have 2 of them. Pretty incredible planes, unbelievably durable. Lots and lots of carbon fiber. So if Motion could sell a variation of this plane I would be good. Oh and make sure you offer landing gear. I had to custom fit landing gear on mine.

I'm a really big Motion fan. I'm pretty sure they know it. The only time I ever go to HK is usually if they have something I can't get anywhere else. I'm not to fond of them, almost everything has to come from China. Very low stock held here in the US.

Best Regards
Woody

[Aros]

Durafly is a brand made by FMS for HobbyKing which has exclusive rights to it. That is why we do not carry Durafly, just for the record.

[dkalwishky]

I believe Durafly is sold exclusively though Hobby King. I don't know if MRC could carry it.

[Woodcock]

What I will do is buy from MRC, no mater the brand. However if motion doesn't sell it I wont buy.

I agree, but Motion doesn't carry Durafly. Probably should give a little thought to that one Motion. Then I could be in 100% agreement.

Best Regards
Woody

[rifleman_btx]

What I will do is buy from MRC, no mater the brand. However if motion doesn't sell it I wont buy.

[Woodcock]

Wow, what a ruckus.

Listen, I've got (3) Dynam planes. I have one that doesn't have retracts. It's as nice as any of the others I've received from E-flight, Flightline, or Freewing. There finish is actually a pretty decent finish bettering the finish of my E-flight models. So when you're buying a Dynam plane pretty much anywhere else than Motion RC. You may not get the customer support you like. Especially in regards to the retracts.

I have a friend who has the Dynam Hellcat. His stock retracts work fine. If you're a good pilot, have your landing expertise pretty much down, as my friend does. They work. My problem is my Dynam Corsair had one that was not functional at all. So I opted to replace them with better ones.

I fully expect the Dynam retracts to improve greatly, honestly they have too much skin in this game.

So I haven't unboxed my B-26 yet. I bought is about 6 months ago, so I fully expect landing gear issues. But I wont be able to blame Motion, as I got it somewhere else. But anything I buy that says Dynam, and has retracts, will most certainly be purchased from Motion RC from this day forward. Good support is worth quite a bit in my opinion.

I like Dynam's, I honestly think they're going places, places I think we will all appreciate in days to come.

Best Regards
Woody

[Hoomi]

I don't plan to get rid of it, though it's doubtful that I'll recommend any Dynam products in the future. Even if Dynam is going to act like jerks, I'm glad that MRC earned the profit on this sale anyway. After all, I'm sure they've already paid Dynam for the stock, and if their current stock of Dynam products doesn't sell, or they have to sell it at a reduced price, they lose out on earnings. Stock that doesn't sell costs a business money by taking up space that could be devoted to more popular merchandise, it costs them at inventory time, both to count, and in taxes that must be paid on stocked merchandise, and the longer it sits, the less return they're going to realize on the investment they made in the stock.

Whatever we think of Dynam as a company, if MotionRC has the plane in stock, we help MRC with our purchases, more than we help Dynam. MotionRC doesn't have to restock the sold inventory from Dynam. They can fill the vacated shelf space with stock from other companies that treat their business partners better. Dynam loses out, either way.

[dkalwishky]

I HAD the Dynam Waco and it flew great, I really liked it. I just sold it as it was the only Dynam plane I had and I didn't want it in my hangar any longer.

[Hoomi]

If I'd read the last couple of pages of this topic a week ago, it might be a RocHobby Waco arriving today, instead of the Dynam.

All the reviews I'd read or watched on YouTube, praised the Dynam Waco's flight characteristics. One of the guys out at our local RC club said he'd flown both the RocHobby and the Dynam, and the Dynam was a better flyer, so I opted with it.

That said, when I was still deciding, one of the guys in our Old Farts Flying group on Facebook pointed out I could get the Dynam Waco for about $40 cheaper from another retailer, but added that this other seller had a questionable reputation. I've only bought one thing from MotionRC prior, but I'd read enough reviews to have a good feeling about their commitment to customer service. I'd rather support a business that I'm confident is going to respond if I have a problem, than save a few bucks by going to a less reputable business. I've also spent a lot of time watching MRC's review videos, which I know does cost them some time and money to produce and upload. IMNSHO, making my decision after watching MRC's videos, then buying from someone else, is much like going to a local store, trying on the merchandise, taking up the employee's time, leaving the shop with shop-worn merchandise, and then buying from a cheaper online retailer (and then wondering why the shop with the good customer service is going out of business later).

I wonder if I just bought the absolute last RTF Dynam Waco that MotionRC will sell?

If Dynam is going to backstab business partners, I'm inclined to think it'll be the last, and only, Dynam I buy.

[rifleman_btx]

Time to hit the antidepressants...

[crxmanpat]

Foil has been confirmed to be an EDF, so not a Widow.

[Grady.c]

Project Foil anyone?