Freewing Su-35 Twin 70mm 12 blade

[Airguardian]

i dont wanna use the TV for rudder

Why wouldn't you????

You are missing on one of the (if not THE) greatest assets of this jet! :|

i never used expo in my life and they make me very anxious since they give a false feeling at the beginning and again at the end which makes me feel its impossible for my fingers to learn the plane behavior and i tend to over correct after that !!

I guarantee you will be overcorrecting if you use full throws and no expo with a decently close-to-neutral CG on this one.
Also, expo in the range of 10-30% is often useless and a nuisance more than anything else.
I'd rather go straight to values over 40% or not at all.
If you have tried to use expo in the past while being conservative with expo values, that could explain your bad experience with it.

Mind that the response of the full flying stabs (particularly on the SU-35) is NOT linear, so using a linear curve does not guarantee linear control.
Good expo/throws combinations can get you closer to that linear feel but need to test it out and fine tune to your likings.

[Airguardian]

is it that much sensitive?? the reason i'm asking is because when i first got the mig , one of my friend who had one told me to set my D/R to 65% with 20% expo but when i did that the plane felt very sluggish so i went for 80% no expo and i felt more confortable so since u have flown both , based on my mig setup do u still think i need 50% expo ??

It kinda is, particularly if you run CGs like what I suggest (160-170mm).
So, you may get away without expo for limited throws, but if you are using full throws as I am, then hell sure you SHOULD use a huge dose of expo to compensate for it.
And to those that hate on using full throws, know that I am using them all the time for extreme maneuvers, so yes, you lose capability by limiting your throws. Limiting throws is a sound idea to perform precision aerobatics and formation flight... and to an extent, they can help in landing but that's it. I'd rather have the full throws at my command whenever I feel like it ;)

when u say any acrylic stuff u mean spray cans or u mean by brush ?? because as far as i know ( correct me if i'm wrong ) spray can has thinner which could eat the foam unless its sprayed from far very carefully

Well, I was talking in general but you are right that the propellants from some spray cans may damage the foam. At that point, you need to test cans to make sure they are okay, or know what other people has used. I was assuming you would paint with airbrush (shouldn't have) and then, acrylic paints made specifically for airbrush use should all be okay.

[paulrkytek]

the digital camo looks great man , is that a paint ?!!! 😲 . the paint job on the mig-21 is amazing , such a beautiful jet

Yes 90% paint 10% peel and stick vinyl which is basically a white A4 sheet, painted using the same colours as the plane i.e. grey, dark brown, black , sand pink and cream, then cut into strips then cut into squares/rectangles to make up the isolated digi squares then peel and stick on to suit and firm down with low level heat on hobby iron. The digital squares attached to the main body of paint are formed by cutting the pattern in the frogtape masking tape before applying masking tape then painting. There are several stages involved and it does take a fair bit of time though the hard time consuming part is the thinking about what to paint and where to complete the picture so to speak so it can need "adjustments" along the way to achieve the desired effect.
I look forward to seeing what you come up with. I have updated the SU35 since the post you looked at , see post 285 at https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/th...ve-show/page15

[masterssls1]

Vinyl emulsion sample pots, brush painted, finished with matt water based clearcoat. Same with my F16 Tiger, Mig 21, Rebel and any touch up colours. Very fine hair on brushes for flat finish, mini roller for even orange peel finish. Local diy do colour pot samples £3 pot paints a plane., all 3 same paint and method, good luck !!

the digital camo looks great man , is that a paint ?!!! 😲 . the paint job on the mig-21 is amazing , such a beautiful jet

[kallend]

.
what is ur expo on roll ? r u using 50 % also !

Yes.

[paulrkytek]

your paint scheme looks great , i'm a big fan of custom paint jobs . i usually paint my planes with rust-oleum paint but this is the first EPS fome plane that i own so i'm clueless since i assume my regular paint will eat the foam . what type of paint u use ? i know that water base paint should work but i'm looking for a common brand for primer and paint .
thanks

Vinyl emulsion sample pots, brush painted, finished with matt water based clearcoat. Same with my F16 Tiger, Mig 21, Rebel and any touch up colours. Very fine hair on brushes for flat finish, mini roller for even orange peel finish. Local diy do colour pot samples £3 pot paints a plane., all 3 same paint and method, good luck !!

[masterssls1]

I fly mine with 8 channels but I cheat to some extent.

I have a separate gyro with delta mix, and its outputs drive the tailerons and VT pitch/roll, while the regular aileron output from the Rx drives the ailerons. It's rather like having extra channels. While they can't be adjusted separately in the air, they can be adjusted separately on the ground and once I found a setup that I liked, it's stayed that way for several years now. I keep the VT on full time anyway since I see no reason not to.

Also an Assan steering gyro on the nosewheel steering takes care of steering trim without needing to interfere with rudder trim or needing an extra channel. It's like having another channel. Not expensive either. https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=9114

thanks , that could work too and since i will be trimming my nose wheel mechanically and i dont wanna use the TV for rudder nor use any flaperons so i guess i can start with only separating the both elevator channels to two channels and mix them as tailerons .
what is ur expo on roll ? r u using 50 % also ? i know that i'm asking again abut this but i never used expo in my life and they make me very anxious since they give a folse feeling at the beginning and again at the end which makes me feel its impossible for my fingers to learn the plane behavior and i tend to over correct after that !!

[masterssls1]

When I started flying the Su-35 like 10 years ago I was using 8ch... my recommendation would be to get a 16ch system as soon as you can. :)
Certainly can be done but you sacrifice too much. In your case I'd do something like this:

1- Left Taileron
2- Right Taileron
3- Throttle
4- Rudders + TV Yaw
5- Landing Gear + Gear Door with sequencer + Wheel Steering
6- Ailerons
7- Left TV
8- Right TV

That's for a setup without gyros.
If you want to use a gyro, you'd need to free at least one extra channel (You could group ailerons with tailerons to be run as elevons).
Both TV and Tailerons would operate on a delta mix (Pitch + Roll).

thanks Airguardian for the details . i believe this 8ch setup can work with my target here and since i dont trust gyros so no need for it ,
and from the point of the steering wheel trim i will do it mechanically . i know its a pain in the *ss to do so but i did it that way on the mig and it runs straight now

And I certainly do NOT recommend to fly the Su-35 with anything less than 50% expo on roll/pitch, regardless of what you do with the MiG. 60-70% seems to be the sweet spot for me with full mechanical throws enabled.

is it that much sensitive?? the reason i'm asking is because when i first got the mig , one of my friend who had one told me to set my D/R to 65% with 20% expo but when i did that the plane felt very sluggish so i went for 80% no expo and i felt more confortable so since u have flown both , based on my mig setup do u still think i need 50% expo ??

Here's a video I made on my Su-35 build. Check the video description and pinned comment for extra important data that was missing from the video or mistaken (and had to correct):

that is a great video , i watched it yesterday and i'm willing to watch it again when i start my reinforcing the gears :))

Any acrylic stuff should work. I'd probably ignore the primer and go for it. The stock paint will pretty much act as primer already.
But I'd consider adding a protective matt-varnish spray coat when you're done! ;)

when u say any acrylic stuff u mean spray cans or u mean by brush ?? because as far as i know ( correct me if i'm wrong ) spray can has thinner which could eat the foam unless its sprayed from far very carefully

[kallend]

I fly mine with 8 channels but I cheat to some extent.

I have a separate gyro with delta mix, and its outputs drive the tailerons and VT pitch/roll, while the regular aileron output from the Rx drives the ailerons. It's rather like having extra channels. While they can't be adjusted separately in the air, they can be adjusted separately on the ground and once I found a setup that I liked, it's stayed that way for several years now. I keep the VT on full time anyway since I see no reason not to.

Also an Assan steering gyro on the nosewheel steering takes care of steering trim without needing to interfere with rudder trim or needing an extra channel. It's like having another channel. Not expensive either. https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=9114

[Airguardian]

When I started flying the Su-35 like 10 years ago I was using 8ch... my recommendation would be to get a 16ch system as soon as you can. :)
Certainly can be done but you sacrifice too much. In your case I'd do something like this:

1- Left Taileron
2- Right Taileron
3- Throttle
4- Rudders + TV Yaw
5- Landing Gear + Gear Door with sequencer + Wheel Steering
6- Ailerons
7- Left TV
8- Right TV

That's for a setup without gyros.
If you want to use a gyro, you'd need to free at least one extra channel (You could group ailerons with tailerons to be run as elevons).
Both TV and Tailerons would operate on a delta mix (Pitch + Roll).

You want to separate TV nozzles so your trimming action doesn't change thrustline. Likewise, separate wheel steering would come handy so you can trim it to track straight on the ground from the transmitter, but you are unlikely to be able to do that with 8ch unless you pair ailerons with tailerons (becoming elevons).

Trimming nose gear steering mechanically is a nightmare, and you CAN'T trim it by getting the rudders out of trim. So there's that ;)

Comparing MiG-29 to Su-35: Su-35 is definitely more sensitive and agile, much more aerobatic too at the same time. Feels less sluggish in the air but the extra inertia on the MiG-29 allows it to perform some maneuvers a bit more scale-ish. The MiG is faster if just by virtue of being bigger, but can slow down very well to land easily. Both glide very well but neither is a glider. They aren't bricks either like some other jets. Landing gears of the MiG-29 are sturdier than those of the SU-35, but the MiG gear housing is weaker than that of the SU-35. So on the su you will notice the landing gear (struts and wheels mainly) degrade faster but they are solidly attached to the frame (with the exception of the nose LG which requires some easy nose reinforcement from the battery compartment to toughen it up). Then the MiG has very solid struts and wheels, but the point where they attach is not strong enough and unglues and deforms over time, requiring some creative solutions on the user's end to keep flying. One extra thing to consider: The MiG sits taller and suffers much less from FOD on the EDF rotors (Important if you operate from grass or dirt runways as I do), where the SU-35 needs constant maintenance as the rotors degrade fast.

Overall, the MiG has been flying for much longer without need for maintenance compared to the Su, mostly thanks to it not eating so much gravel on take-offs, but as flights build up, you will need to do something to beef up the landing gear frame (About 100 flights for me), where the Su-35 will not have a problem there (mine is still perfectly fine at 300 flights) but may need or want to improve the landing gear struts instead, as they are very soft and not ideal for rough airstrips.

MiG-29 is easier to land generally speaking, but recommend adding the VT nozzles from the get go to avoid experimenting high-alpha lock problems which have led many to crashes (myself included).

And I certainly do NOT recommend to fly the Su-35 with anything less than 50% expo on roll/pitch, regardless of what you do with the MiG. 60-70% seems to be the sweet spot for me with full mechanical throws enabled.

Here's a video I made on my Su-35 build. Check the video description and pinned comment for extra important data that was missing from the video or mistaken (and had to correct):

[...] but this is the first EPS fome plane that i own so i'm clueless since i assume my regular paint will eat the foam . what type of paint u use ? i know that water base paint should work but i'm looking for a common brand for primer and paint.

Any acrylic stuff should work. I'd probably ignore the primer and go for it. The stock paint will pretty much act as primer already.
But I'd consider adding a protective matt-varnish spray coat when you're done! ;)

[masterssls1]

I may install my FMS fans soon now, as I have an upcoming event, so it's probably the best moment to do so! :)

hey Airguardian , i have watched all of your videos of ur beautiful ladies on the other 1950 pages forums and i have to say ur setup looks solid and i would love to setup mine the same way but i only have 8 channels of receiver. i would really appreciate it if you can share ur opinion in a setup like urs with 8 channels ( i never use flaps )
another question if u dont mind , i own the freewing mig-29 V2 and i saw all of ur videos on the mig but since i didnt fly my su-35 yet so just in comparison what do u think of the su-35 compared to the mig-29 in terms of speed, sensitivity, how it glides , how fragile is the landing gears and finally the quality of built
NOTE:- i fly the mig-29 with D\R high rate on the elevator 80% no expo , aileron 100% no expo .
any help would be really appreciated

[masterssls1]

Impressive. Having been inspired by Air Guardians January Halcyon video I have now completed my Freewing SU35 with twin fms 70mm pro inrunners ( 5.2to 5.4kg thrust on all up flying weight of 3.45kg incl Turnigy 5000mah 60c 6 s battery and with the assistance of one of the my club flying friends have today programmed in the Thrust vectors. I just have to finalise spring adjustment on the oleos and she is ready to maiden.( thrust vectoring will be switched off for the first few flights).. just modified the colour scheme a little as attached. Any words of wisdom for my well manicured grass field take off would be appreciated. I intend to use 8mm of take off flaps and 16mm of landing flaps ( flaperons with restricted aileron throw so as not to max out the servos )

your paint scheme looks great , i'm a big fan of custom paint jobs . i usually paint my planes with rust-oleum paint but this is the first EPS fome plane that i own so i'm clueless since i assume my regular paint will eat the foam . what type of paint u use ? i know that water base paint should work but i'm looking for a common brand for primer and paint .
thanks

[Airguardian]

Have you done it and are you happy? Will there be a video without the screaming kittens soon?

I have! And yes, I am happy with the change! ;)

It's not >1:1 T/W (yet)... maybe when I get newer battery packs but it delivers comparable to better thrust while consuming less amps so yeah, would totally recommend (screaming kittens aside, lol).



As for the video... hopefully I get to post something soon enough!

[kallend]

I have had the FMS PRO units in my Sukhoi since October 2020 and am very pleased with the results. No negatives to report.

[TangoVector]

I may install my FMS fans soon now, as I have an upcoming event, so it's probably the best moment to do so! :)

Have you done it and are you happy? Will there be a video without the screaming kittens soon?

[TangoVector]

I've seen suggestion many times about using "F-15 main landing gear" for grass runways,

If so, do I need the accompanying electronic retract, or can I just go with the struts: Freewing 90mm F-15C Main Landing Gear Strut and Wheel - Left?

Thanks for your time, and how is the FMS fan setup going? I am not a very good aerobatic flyer and prefer longer flight time with mild aerobatics, I still have the original 6 bladed units but am unsure about EDF unit upgrades.

Hi,

You only need the gear strut and wheel. I also got an Avanti front landing gear, same thing, only strut and wheel, drops right in. Doesn't look scale, but improves the grass capability. I also printed a brace for the front-wheel, similar to the one that people use on the Avanti. Happy with the result, but it could be better, so I have not shared the .STL

The FMS pro fans are a huge difference in thrust and sound. Takeoff is very short, but TV on makes the biggest difference on grass. Look out for the FMS pro:s on Black Friday, definitely worth the upgrade with new ESC also.

[Whiskey Whiskey]

I have a crashed version 1 and a replacement version 1 kit I've been sitting on for a few years. I've been reviewing this thread as I plan on what kind of modifications I want to make to the rebuild. I've seen Jandro's build and setup video on YouTube, very well done!

I've seen suggestion many times about using "F-15 main landing gear" for grass runways, is this the correct part: Freewing 90mm F-15C Main Landing Gear - Left?

If so, do I need the accompanying electronic retract, or can I just go with the struts: Freewing 90mm F-15C Main Landing Gear Strut and Wheel - Left?

Thanks for your time, and how is the FMS fan setup going? I am not a very good aerobatic flyer and prefer longer flight time with mild aerobatics, I still have the original 6 bladed units but am unsure about EDF unit upgrades.

[Airguardian]

I may install my FMS fans soon now, as I have an upcoming event, so it's probably the best moment to do so! :)

[TangoVector]

I'm learning my Su35 more and more. With the FMS-fans I was able to get it to hover for a while, but I was so surprised and not a good enough pilot to sustain it, but the performance is definitely there. I have 3D-printed a brace for the nose-gear, and for the time being, the gear-doors are removed after some damage earlier. I would really like to get my hands on an ARF version and get the upgrades into a fresh airframe, but some other projects have precedence. The sound with the FMS fans is very nice, totally worth it in every way. If the fans show up on a good deal when Black Friday comes I would recommend anyone that want great performance (or stop hurting kittens) to get them!

Will try to get someone to film it, but can't promise anything.

[Airguardian]

Excuse the tortured kittens...