Official Freewing Vulcan 70mm EDF Jet Thread

[paulrkytek]

Yes except for removing the blue box.

Then it seems Rons motor is 500w short on a fully charged battery which is surely not right then ? assuming all wires, connections etc are stock, battery is good. Throttle is calibrated .I wonder if the book figures of 1550 watt are based on 22.5v x70amp = 1575w ?

[Evan D]

Yes except for removing the blue box.

[paulrkytek]

I dont know evan. Today they both flew well in a 10 to 12 mph wind down the runway. Not fam with what the results should be. Just know the t1 with same edf as vulcan but had a 100a esc had higher watts and amp draw then vulcans 80a esc with same battery reading. Normal? I dont know

Just tested my Hawk T1 with fms platinum pro in-runner edf unit, 3060 1900kv. meter reading, static model, 78amp 1765 watts on fully charged Rhino 2200mah 50c 6s battery85 amp predator esc. but you really need someone out there with a vulcan with a stock setup to do some readings for a fair comparison. .is your Vulcan stock Evan ?

[Evan D]

I’ll put mine on a wattmeter today and see what I get.

Edit...

I don't have any other FW 70mm/ 80A ESC equipped planes but I did check A & W on my Vulcan against my FW 70mm F-16. The F-16 has a XRP 13b/ 2200 hot set up in it with a 100A ESC so not a direct comparison. I checked with two different wattmeters and got very similar numbers.

The Vulcan on a fresh charge got 81.59A 1896.8W and the F-16 on a fresh charge got 103.52A 2474.4W.

Without charging the two batteries I swapped them and the Vulcan then got 79.05A 1807.0W and the F-16 104.18A 2522.2W (tells me the battery used first in the Vulcan and second in the F-16 is a little better).

Highest numbers for each are in bold.

After I fly today I am going to swap a 100A ESC in the Vulcan, take readings and then swap in a XRP fan/ motor and see what I get.

[Ron1950]

Take offs were outstanding with a nice breeze. Got everything trimmed out using less elevator etc thanks for the help

[paulrkytek]

I dont know evan. Today they both flew well in a 10 to 12 mph wind down the runway. Not fam with what the results should be. Just know the t1 with same edf as vulcan but had a 100a esc had higher watts and amp draw then vulcans 80a esc with same battery reading. Normal? I dont know

I suppose you could swap the motors around if you want to see if it was the esc but available motor specs say 65 to 70amp so its within spec in both cases, looks like its back to the lawnmower or try high rate elevator with more movement than book value. The new T1 motor is in line with Freewing book figures 70amp 1550 watts. It is worth giving the figures to Motion r.c. support to see if t is a warranty issue or not. though I suspect they will say they are max figures not min. How was the take off in the 10mph wind?

[Ron1950]

I dont know evan. Today they both flew well in a 10 to 12 mph wind down the runway. Not fam with what the results should be. Just know the t1 with same edf as vulcan but had a 100a esc had higher watts and amp draw then vulcans 80a esc with same battery reading. Normal? I dont know

[Evan D]

So you are saying?

The Vulcan’s motor has an issue?
The bigger ESC allows the T-1 to make more power?
One has more restrictive flow?

??

[Ron1950]

ok tested the freewing T1 with the 2210kv in runner and 100a esc vs the vulcan with same 2210kv in runner and the stock 80a esc the 66a/1409w was done at full throttle and 24.9 volt battery and 80a stock esc the 72a/1565 w was done with a 100a esc both had same edf and a 24.9v battery

[Ron1950]

good point !!!!!!!

[paulrkytek]

square one is what i am afraid of...btw what timing are these 70mm supposed to be set at?

I will pass on that one Ron. My fms 70mm in-runner platinum pro motors use Hobbywing 80amp esc with timing set to auto. My Freewing Hawk, Rebel , SU35 and Yak 130 all have FMS platinum Pro motors.. Most in-runners have timing set to low, starting with 6 degrees is a safe bet.. If you end up back to square one you might need to borrow a lawn mower

[Ron1950]

square one is what i am afraid of...btw what timing are these 70mm supposed to be set at?

[paulrkytek]

Thank you paul figured it out after few min. Show ya how much i have forgoten about primary electronics. Navy sent me to avaition electronics tech school in 1970 i hated it lol

Well as they are both same motor it will be interesting to see the the max amps and watts reading when you test them. Test with same esc and battery and then with different esc If one reads 1600 watts and the other 1200 watts then problem solved, If both read the same its back to square one !!!!

[Ron1950]

Thank you paul figured it out after few min. Show ya how much i have forgoten about primary electronics. Navy sent me to avaition electronics tech school in 1970 i hated it lol

[paulrkytek]

Paul where do u get 1500w and 65a. Stats?

motor draws 65 to 70 amp 25v on full battery 25x65=1625 watts 22.5v x65 = 1465w motor same as Hawk high performance version so I took lower figure of 1500w.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32873840342.html Ali express, scroll down and you will find motor output figures 65 to 70 amp 1500w
Also see pg 9 of the Vulcan instruction manual for motor output specifications where it states 1550watt, 70 amp on the 6s version.

[Ron1950]

Paul where do u get 1500w and 65a. Stats?

[Ron1950]

paul thanks ive tryed everthing u mentioned except watt meter and smaller mains...useing a 3300 kv 6 s roaring top battery all ready...tryed no flap take offs and half flap take offs and full flap take offs ... only gets to flying speed on full flap take offs battery is close to a inch back from wire troff hole in the front of the battery tray ..new inrunner fan comes tuesday for the t1 ill see i f its better.. i have a 2.5 in wheel for the nose and ill see about the mains later.. one thing at a time

[paulrkytek]

20 bucks for a nozzle is a bit too much ill wait for wild vortex to start selling them besides there is no way to get 20mph from a nozzle

i do have a question about edf's though hamiltons hangar has a vid of his vulcan off longer grass then my fields weeds.. the grass is just up to the nose gear axel and yet i cant get off the ground unless i use full flaps (book value) and run a loooong way down the field ..can there be that much difference in each plane? the power just isnt there and ive calabrated the esc throttle several times .. the nose down attatude of the plane sure isnt helping... once in the air its pretty fast ..any suggestions?

Ron you could try lighter 3300mah battery, set 2.5 mins on timer and check cells after flight . shorten back wheels 1/4 inch if possible if the pin will allow, though be careful this does not foul the wheel wells. and lengthen front wheel 1/4 inch to give better angle of attack, again assuming you do not foul the wheel well. You could also try c.g 1/2 " to 3/4"further back than book cg.. You might also check power output with power meter to see if it is pulling max watts for the motor spec eg 1500w, 65amp..Check the fan blades are not slipping on the motor shaft. Full flaps tend to cause more drag than lift, try half flaps for better lift. Use high rate elevator for take off to assist rotation on the back wheels and use a touch of up elevator from the start just to take some pressure off the nose wheel and reduce drag to allow ground speed to build up more quickly before pulling back on the stick when take off speed is reached then go to lower rate elevator after retracting gear. Longish thin dry grass about one and a half inch should be ok ( I watched your video of the landing ) especially if the field is smooth, dry and the ground has been rolled to smooth it out. Wet grass and bumpy sticky subsoil can make quite a difference so pick a dry grass time of day to fly edf., (sorry if I have perhaps stated the obvious). Use a new battery min 35 c to ensure full power on take off and check the battery you used for previous flights for power under load. Hope this helps, good luck with your next flights.

My Freewing Hawk with 70mm in-runner is similar in dimensions, weight and power to the Vulcan and gets off dry grass in a short distance with half flaps at no great speed no problem. I would have thought the vulcan would be ok off your field. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoFlsGmzlY8 Difficult to judge without a take off video, maybe next time you could do one
Paul

[kallend]

20 bucks for a nozzle is a bit too much ill wait for wild vortex to start selling them besides there is no way to get 20mph from a nozzle

i do have a question about edf's though hamiltons hangar has a vid of his vulcan off longer grass then my fields weeds.. the grass is just up to the nose gear axel and yet i cant get off the ground unless i use full flaps (book value) and run a loooong way down the field ..can there be that much difference in each plane? the power just isnt there and ive calabrated the esc throttle several times .. the nose down attatude of the plane sure isnt helping... once in the air its pretty fast ..any suggestions?

The nozzles I listed on Thingiverse are just designs that anyone with a 3D printer can fabricate. I don't charge anything for the stuff I design.

[Ron1950]

20 bucks for a nozzle is a bit too much ill wait for wild vortex to start selling them besides there is no way to get 20mph from a nozzle

i do have a question about edf's though hamiltons hangar has a vid of his vulcan off longer grass then my fields weeds.. the grass is just up to the nose gear axel and yet i cant get off the ground unless i use full flaps (book value) and run a loooong way down the field ..can there be that much difference in each plane? the power just isnt there and ive calabrated the esc throttle several times .. the nose down attatude of the plane sure isnt helping... once in the air its pretty fast ..any suggestions?