Official Freewing 80mm MiG-21 Fishbed Thread

[RCjetdude]

Since you asked for "results", here's a quick video. Steadyhands Evelyn captured one of my flights this afternoon (Thanks!!), hotdogging and showing off a new trick I just figured out yesterday. I call it the "Belly Rub", seen around 1:40 in the video below. It seems simple enough, but believe me, it isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ms...ature=youtu.be

The lack of clouds as a reference point obscures just how slow and steeply this bird can fly. The aircraft's top speed is satisfying without being blistering, but it is its stable mannerisms in slow flight that impress me most about this MiG-21 the more I fly it. Not many scale aircraft can pull nearly vertical, roll inverted while cutting power, then at the apex of the climb, push the nose over and down without any hint of a snap. Well, for foamies it's not unheard of. The Freewing F-5 can do it to an extent, as can the Freewing Mirage. But with the MiG-21, it isn't expected, so seeing the stability is all the more impressive. The maneuver I certainly cannot execute in almost any other scale foam jet in this size range is the very steep high alpha. The new power system, and the aircraft's design itself, are to credit here. The new motor doesn't seem like a massive difference, but the videos I think speak for themselves. Most other foam jets at Motion RC can't begin to imagine staying in a 40 degree high alpha. Suddenly snapping into one as I do at different times in this video is especially fun.

Now, the high alpha maneuver in and of itself is fun to do, but the real benefit that type of inherent stability and thrust gives you is in the landing pattern. Slow, controlled landings with extra thrust to keep in reserve as "bailout power" if you ever need it.

Keep in mind, I'm not using a gyro in this video. Enabling a gyro just makes everything even that more smoother.

Clearly one of the best videos I have seen of this bird in action. It truly looks like it lives up to everything we are hearing about it. I love the commentary as well, both written and verbal as it really helps me understand what is going on during the flight. Can't wait to get mine in September. Hats off as well to Evelyn for her camera work.

Steve

[Alpha]

Since you asked for "results", here's a quick video. Steadyhands Evelyn captured one of my flights this afternoon (Thanks!!), hotdogging and showing off a new trick I just figured out yesterday. I call it the "Belly Rub", seen around 1:40 in the video below. It seems simple enough, but believe me, it isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-ms...ature=youtu.be

The lack of clouds as a reference point obscures just how slow and steeply this bird can fly. The aircraft's top speed is satisfying without being blistering, but it is its stable mannerisms in slow flight that impress me most about this MiG-21 the more I fly it. Not many scale aircraft can pull nearly vertical, roll inverted while cutting power, then at the apex of the climb, push the nose over and down without any hint of a snap. Well, for foamies it's not unheard of. The Freewing F-5 can do it to an extent, as can the Freewing Mirage. But with the MiG-21, it isn't expected, so seeing the stability is all the more impressive. The maneuver I certainly cannot execute in almost any other scale foam jet in this size range is the very steep high alpha. The new power system, and the aircraft's design itself, are to credit here. The new motor doesn't seem like a massive difference, but the videos I think speak for themselves. Most other foam jets at Motion RC can't begin to imagine staying in a 40 degree high alpha. Suddenly snapping into one as I do at different times in this video is especially fun.

Now, the high alpha maneuver in and of itself is fun to do, but the real benefit that type of inherent stability and thrust gives you is in the landing pattern. Slow, controlled landings with extra thrust to keep in reserve as "bailout power" if you ever need it.

Keep in mind, I'm not using a gyro in this video. Enabling a gyro just makes everything even that more smoother.

[Chief58D]

Chief58D, the flight in the video was flown bone stock, without a gyro. I have flown the MiGs with a Freewing E51 gyro and a Hobby Eagle A3-L gyro, and I'll say that the gyro certainly does make sustaining the high alpha more easy. But, a gyro is absolutely not necessary to enjoy the MiG-21 including executing maneuvers like high alpha. Without a gyro it just takes faster, smaller reactions on the control sticks to keep the alpha steep and controllable. Anyone who has flown the older Freewing Eurofighter in high alpha back before gyros will be familiar with the feeling. I cut power on the MiG to slow the aircraft, feed in elevator until I'm holding full up and the nose is at a nice steep angle, then I feed in throttle as needed, pulsing the throttle and watching the aircraft and feeding in appropriate input to preempt any slipping.

As for gyro gain settings, on any aircraft, this is based on pilot's individual preference. Personally, I prefer very low gain settings. Just enough to smooth out certain aspects of certain maneuvers, but low enough where I still feel positively "connected" to the aircraft itself. Too high of a gain setting takes the fun out for me, and especially on a fast moving jet can become dangerous if oscillations develop when a gyro is overloaded and begins to overcorrect its own self. As for any gyro, we recommend starting with a low gain setting and gradually increasing it until each pilot finds his/her "sweet spot" for that given aircraft.

Time for more flight tests for the next 8.5 hours, I'm late.

Appreciate the info, Alpha!
And looking forward to results of the test flights!

[Alpha]

Chief58D, the flight in the video was flown bone stock, without a gyro. I have flown the MiGs with a Freewing E51 gyro and a Hobby Eagle A3-L gyro, and I'll say that the gyro certainly does make sustaining the high alpha more easy. But, a gyro is absolutely not necessary to enjoy the MiG-21 including executing maneuvers like high alpha. Without a gyro it just takes faster, smaller reactions on the control sticks to keep the alpha steep and controllable. Anyone who has flown the older Freewing Eurofighter in high alpha back before gyros will be familiar with the feeling. I cut power on the MiG to slow the aircraft, feed in elevator until I'm holding full up and the nose is at a nice steep angle, then I feed in throttle as needed, pulsing the throttle and watching the aircraft and feeding in appropriate input to preempt any slipping.

As for gyro gain settings, on any aircraft, this is based on pilot's individual preference. Personally, I prefer very low gain settings. Just enough to smooth out certain aspects of certain maneuvers, but low enough where I still feel positively "connected" to the aircraft itself. Too high of a gain setting takes the fun out for me, and especially on a fast moving jet can become dangerous if oscillations develop when a gyro is overloaded and begins to overcorrect its own self. As for any gyro, we recommend starting with a low gain setting and gradually increasing it until each pilot finds his/her "sweet spot" for that given aircraft.

Time for more flight tests for the next 8.5 hours, I'm late.

[dkalwishky]

I pulled the trigger and ordered the Blue MIG. I can't wait to get it!

[Chief58D]

Hi Chief58D, I just got in from another day of flying MiGs and F-104s and Bearcats. Fun day! Both the manual and the website state that the standard MiG-21 PNP uses a 3530-1800kv outrunner motor, 80mm 12B EDF, and a 100A ESC. This is the exact setup used in the flight video I posted showing the MiG-21 40 degree high alpha, so rest assured that's the performance you can expect from the PNP you pre-ordered (Thank you for your order!!). I recall I used a 6s 4000 for that specific flight, although most often I fly the 6s 5000. Either battery does not impact the model's ability to sustain the high alpha as seen in my video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJDBgBAbCTc

The stock PNP, with the stock setup above, also features eight 9g Digital MG servos. These are new, stronger servos, as I had mentioned on RCGroups yesterday. Our website Specs needs to be updated by our web team on Monday to clarify this since currently I see that it lists the older servos (metal gear and analog, but not clearly Digital Metal Gear as they are now in the MiG-21). We apologize for any confusion.

Awesome -
Thank-you Alpha!

BTW -
Was the high alpha flight using gyro assist, and if so, what mode / gain settings are needed?
(I'm definitely a late arrival to the use of gyros in airplanes, so much to learn!!)

[RCjetdude]

The Product Specifications section at the bottom of the Overview page needs to have the Power System updated as well. It still says 3553 - 1720 kV for the motor.

[Alpha]

Hi Chief58D, I just got in from another day of flying MiGs and F-104s and Bearcats. Fun day! Both the manual and the website state that the standard MiG-21 PNP uses a 3530-1800kv outrunner motor, 80mm 12B EDF, and a 100A ESC. This is the exact setup used in the flight video I posted showing the MiG-21 40 degree high alpha, so rest assured that's the performance you can expect from the PNP you pre-ordered (Thank you for your order!!). I recall I used a 6s 4000 for that specific flight, although most often I fly the 6s 5000. Either battery does not impact the model's ability to sustain the high alpha as seen in my video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJDBgBAbCTc

The stock PNP, with the stock setup above, also features eight 9g Digital MG servos. These are new, stronger servos, as I had mentioned on RCGroups yesterday. Our website Specs needs to be updated by our web team on Monday to clarify this since currently I see that it lists the older servos (metal gear and analog, but not clearly Digital Metal Gear as they are now in the MiG-21). We apologize for any confusion.

[Chief58D]

To the Motion RC team -

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion concerning the stock powerplant and electronics for the Mig-21, especially within the discussions over on RCG.
Seems there is some discrepancy between manuals and online posts, which doesn't help.

Could you guys clarify exactly what servos, retracts and motor and fan are going to be stock components of the Mig-21's now on preorder?
Not just asking this out of curiosity -
I already preordered and paid for one of the awesome-looking blue "high visibility" color schemes. :)

Fingers crossed that the stock components will provide the performance needed for the 40 degree flight profile as posted in the video on RCG!! :cool:

Thanks!

RR

[crxmanpat]

You're quick, Pat!

Well, I practically wore out the F5 key on my keyboard waiting for the pre-order to go live. I bet I was the first one to order. :p

[RCjetdude]

I mean that I flew the MiG-21 on a Jetfan 8s setup with our Admiral 6s 5000mAh and Admiral 2s 5000mAh, connected in series with our EC5 2-to-1 series connector. The advantage of a larger size, and the way we designed the intake and battery bay, is that it can take a larger battery unlike for example the 80mm Intruder, whose battery bay is limited to 6s 4000 only. The MiG-21 is like the T-45 in terms of additional available battery space that still lies within the CG-able range. I flew the MiG-21 on a standard 6s 4000, 6s 5000, 6s 6000, 8s 4000, and 8s 5000. All can fit and CG within the MiG-21's battery bay. Of course, the stock PNP setup is designed for 6s only. All 8s tests were conducted with appropriate Jetfan 8s setups (fan, motor, ESC).

Thanks. Thats what I thought. Just wanted to make sure. Did you notice much of a difference in how it flew on 8S?

[Alpha]

I mean that I flew the MiG-21 on a Jetfan 8s setup with our Admiral 6s 5000mAh and Admiral 2s 5000mAh, connected in series with our EC5 2-to-1 series connector. The advantage of a larger size, and the way we designed the intake and battery bay, is that it can take a larger battery unlike for example the 80mm Intruder, whose battery bay is limited to 6s 4000 only. The MiG-21 is like the T-45 in terms of additional available battery space that still lies within the CG-able range. I flew the MiG-21 on a standard 6s 4000, 6s 5000, 6s 6000, 8s 4000, and 8s 5000. All can fit and CG within the MiG-21's battery bay. Of course, the stock PNP setup is designed for 6s only. All 8s tests were conducted with appropriate Jetfan 8s setups (fan, motor, ESC).

[RCjetdude]

For you hotrod gearheads looking for a home for your 80mm Jetfans, bare in mind we tested the MiG-21 to CG with 8s 5000 (Admiral 6s+2s)

So just what do you mean by this? That it will take the greater weight for an 8S setup or that you actually flew it on 8S?

Pre-ordered one awhile ago. I couldn't help myself... I was going to order the F-104 first but the Mig kept calling my name... in my weakness I caved in.

Steve

[MikeT]

Got mine on order! :D
I always liked the look of that bird, over the F-104 StarFighter. It was simple yet had that very distinguished shape.

Although the 90mm F-104 looks pretty damn good, just don't have room in the garage for it. { Yet }

I wonder if Freewing will make a 90mm F-100 or F-105??

Or a A-10.........................

MIke

[Flygirl]

An F-100 would be way cool!

[Arcangel]

Got mine on order! :D
I always liked the look of that bird, over the F-104 StarFighter. It was simple yet had that very distinguished shape.

Although the 90mm F-104 looks pretty damn good, just don't have room in the garage for it. { Yet }

I wonder if Freewing will make a 90mm F-100 or F-105??

[Alpha]

You're quick, Pat!

To the rest of you, have at it!

PNP Silver
https://www.motionrc.com/collections...nt=23917895174

PNP Blue
https://www.motionrc.com/collections...nt=23892568838



For you hotrod gearheads looking for a home for your 80mm Jetfans, bare in mind we tested the MiG-21 to CG with 8s 5000 (Admiral 6s+2s) . We're pre-ordering the ARF PLUS versions as well:


ARF PLUS Silver
https://www.motionrc.com/collections...nt=23917361094

ARF PLUS Blue
https://www.motionrc.com/collections...nt=23876133574




One note about the MiG-21 that isn't mentioned in the Description but can be seen in the Instruction Manual we've uploaded to the product pages, is that it uses all new Digital Metal Gear Servos for all flying surfaces, 9g and 17g. This is another departure from the standard 9g analog plastic servos used for most surfaces of the smaller 80mm Freewing jets. The MiG-21's larger size, weight, and upgrade potential benefited from stronger servos. We're also using larger retracts.

We'll be posting flight videos soon. In the meantime, here's a quick teaser pass showing off the power and stability of the MiG-21 and its all new stock PNP power system, sporting a larger ESC and higher KV motor. I flew the bird in China last month before we greenlit mass production.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJDBgBAbCTc

[crxmanpat]

Pre-order is open! Go get 'em boys! Mine's already on order. ;)

[crxmanpat]

I'm about to wear out the F5 button on my keyboard anxiously awaiting the pre-order!

[RCjetdude]

90mm F-104's going up as well!! Where's the announcement thread for them?