New E-flite P-51D 1.5

[xviper]

Regarding the BEC...I typically don't use one as I use battery voltages higher than BEC's can handle. I run the battery directly into the Rx through the switch. I wasn't sure on this design if the BEC had to be in the circuit although I can't figure out why that would be....hence my statement.
Regarding the battery, it's a 2 cell lipo 2700 mAh 6 volt pack...typical Rx pack I have always used with no problems....it is fully charged putting out 6v.

If you are running a battery directly into the RX, how are you disabling the built-in BEC that's already in the ESC? Are you simply just not plugging in the BEC lead from the ESC?
A 2 cell LiPo typically puts out 8.4v when fully charged. How are you restricting the output voltage to only 6v?
How are you powering the servo tester?

[La7 flier]

Essentially, yes...I am bypassing the BEC entirely which may be the problem as I typically dont use them. HH said the gear motors can handle way more than 6v but you are right...a 2 cell lipo is closer to 8.4 when charged. I would be surprised if the pack burned both gear sets out. I hope not! I ran the replacement set directly off the battery pack through the tester but will run next set through the BEC.

[xviper]

Essentially, yes...I am bypassing the BEC entirely which may be the problem as I typically dont use them. HH said the gear motors can handle way more than 6v but you are right...a 2 cell lipo is closer to 8.4 when charged. I would be surprised if the pack burned both gear sets out. I hope not! I ran the replacement set directly off the battery pack through the tester but will run next set through the BEC.

That would be my next step - go with the stock BEC just in case 8.4v is too much for those retracts. I wish I could be more help with specifics but I won't get this plane till spring. For now, it's my FMS V8 version that I go off of, but I think the retracts and sequencer are very similar, even though mine has been modded to 6s set-up.

[La7 flier]

That would be my next step - go with the stock BEC just in case 8.4v is too much for those retracts. I wish I could be more help with specifics but I won't get this plane till spring. For now, it's my FMS V8 version that I go off of, but I think the retracts and sequencer are very similar, even though mine has been modded to 6s set-up.

Third set of retracts from HH...same difference...dead as doornails...retract tailwheel works off the servo tester with a voltage regulator bringing output voltage down to 6v....3 sets of P-51 mains...3 sets of dead p-51 mains.....I'm out of ideas....what is the magnetic(?) circular "choke" wrapping around the wires in the fuseage? Maybe I can use this for slope soaring......

[xviper]

Third set of retracts from HH...same difference...dead as doornails...retract tailwheel works off the servo tester with a voltage regulator bringing output voltage down to 6v....3 sets of P-51 mains...3 sets of dead p-51 mains.....I'm out of ideas....what is the magnetic(?) circular "choke" wrapping around the wires in the fuseage? Maybe I can use this for slope soaring......

That's GOT to be frustrating. Does this plane use some kind of "control board" or is it a typical FMS gear sequencer? I'm thinking there must be some bad soldering in one of those devices. My FMS P-51 has the gear sequencer - goes from the gear port (ch.5) on the RX to the input of the sequencer, then doors goes out that output and retracts go out that output.
Regarding the "choke", are you talking about the "ferrous ring" that one of the set of wires wraps around about 3 to 4 turns? That usually is on the power supply lead from the BEC to reduce EM interference.

[La7 flier]

That's GOT to be frustrating. Does this plane use some kind of "control board" or is it a typical FMS gear sequencer? I'm thinking there must be some bad soldering in one of those devices. My FMS P-51 has the gear sequencer - goes from the gear port (ch.5) on the RX to the input of the sequencer, then doors goes out that output and retracts go out that output.
Regarding the "choke", are you talking about the "ferrous ring" that one of the set of wires wraps around about 3 to 4 turns? That usually is on the power supply lead from the BEC to reduce EM interference.

yes...pretty frustrating because I cannot figure out why they wont work. I used a multimeter on every connection point and the current is flowing. The retracts have a small board inside each unit but they are connected through a gear sequencer (which has also been replaced). I have a feeling I wont ever get this into the air and I was foolish enough to cut up the shipping box before I tested it so no returning this either...thanks for the info on the ferrous ring

[OV10]

Third set of retracts from HH...same difference...dead as doornails...retract tailwheel works off the servo tester with a voltage regulator bringing output voltage down to 6v....3 sets of P-51 mains...3 sets of dead p-51 mains.....I'm out of ideas....what is the magnetic(?) circular "choke" wrapping around the wires in the fuseage? Maybe I can use this for slope soaring......

That is a EMI filter (also known as a choke) which is usually used on the throttle wire lead coming from the ESC to the Rx.
Reading through the back n forth of your and XV's queries to your set up and him getting you to understand that a 2S LiPo is more than 6Vdc please consider the following.
To further expound on the fully charged voltage of 8.4v you should know that the storage voltage value is 7.4v which is still higher than most foamie servos like to deal with.
You indicated that HH said that the retracts could handle "way more" than 6v. What is "way more"??
Sounds like HH is blowing some smoke to fog the issue :lying_face: Yeah the motors can probably handle the higher voltages but can the circuit card that handles the travel limits :face_with_raised_ey

Back in the early days of the 2000mm E-Flite T-28 they had problems with the retracts not working properly because the current sensor trip was designed at too low a sense level
and they (HH) wallowed in BS to the customer base as is written in the common forums knowledge base.
I suggest that the gear motors are fine but the circuit card that control the motors are at issue.:ok_hand:
Best regards,

[La7 flier]

That is a EMI filter (also known as a choke) which is usually used on the throttle wire lead coming from the ESC to the Rx.
Reading through the back n forth of your and XV's queries to your set up and him getting you to understand that a 2S LiPo is more than 6Vdc please consider the following.
To further expound on the fully charged voltage of 8.4v you should know that the storage voltage value is 7.4v which is still higher than most foamie servos like to deal with.
You indicated that HH said that the retracts could handle "way more" than 6v. What is "way more"??
Sounds like HH is blowing some smoke to fog the issue :lying_face: Yeah the motors can probably handle the higher voltages but can the circuit card that handles the travel limits :face_with_raised_ey

Back in the early days of the 2000mm E-Flite T-28 they had problems with the retracts not working properly because the current sensor trip was designed to at too low a sense level
and they (HH) wallowed in BS to the customer base as is written in the common forums knowledge base.
I suggest that the gear motors are fine but the circuit card that control the motors are at issue.:ok_hand:
Best regards,

you may be absolutely correct...HH didnt tell me specifically what the retracts could handle but indicated it was higher than 6 volts. Given that, The first and second set of retract control boards may have been "cooked" by my negligence (although I did use a servo tester on the second set which initially worked but then stopped) however, the third set I just received has never seen anything higher than 6 volts as I put a voltage regulator on the battery and verified its output before I hooked up the retracts...they never worked and I have verified that current is flowing from the rx to the retract servo lead. Somewhere between the servo lead and retract motor the currect is stopped and that can only mean the control board. I am thinking of sacrificing one of the retract units and bypassing the control board. If the motor works, then it is clear the board is the likely cause.

[La7 flier]

OK... interesting. I did an "autopsy" on one of the gear main sets (the first pair that originally came in the plane). Since the tail wheel retract works off the servo tester, I am not concerned with it but what I discovered was it does appear to be a motor board problem. What I did was unsoldered the leads from the board to the motor and used a cutoff servo lead. I resoldered the servo lead directly to the motor bypassing the motor board. Motor works as expected. I am using a multimeter to verify voltages and there are 5 volts coming out of the servo tester after I put a voltage regulator between the tester and the 2-cell lipo pack.I then resoldered the two leads from the board back onto the motor. Nothing. I used the multimeter to confirm that 5 volts are going into the board but .4volts is coming out to the motor leads. Since I don't have the board design (nor would I know what to do with it even if I did), I will presume that my problems are board related. My next step will be to check the next set of mains (the first replacement set sent which worked briefly then stopped). Finally, I will check the set which is currently in the plane (they never worked). If I find the same results on the remaining two retract sets, I will call HH and advise them that they got a bad batch of retract motors. There is no way this is an easy fix since an integral component appears to have a design flaw.....unless someone can tell me I have done this completely wrong and my conclusions are faulty...

[OV10]

Your investigation looks sound and conclusive other than advising HH that they have a bad batch of retract motors.
What they have is bad circuit card controllers on the retracts(motors are good) which really doesn't surprise me.
Based on the part pic they posted of the retract, it looks like they put the circuit card on the trunnion side of the retract(end) which is a new design away from the FMS style retract design they used on the CZ T-28 where the card is on the bottom running parallel with the jackscrew which has been a long standing industry standard problem.
Time for them to step up and resolve the new design electro specs:smirk:

[OV10]

An after thought for ya...…...…….. You may have to go the route that a lot of us did with circuit card issues on the FMS retracts over the years.
The circuit was bypassed (removed) and the motor was controlled with a separate controller like the JP Electric Retract Controller.
Most folks were getting them from RC Castle. https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=7458
I've got 2 in my private inventory stock.

[xviper]

I think I'll wait just a bit longer before I get mine.

[La7 flier]

An after thought for ya...…...…….. You may have to go the route that a lot of us did with circuit card issues on the FMS retracts over the years.
The circuit was bypassed (removed) and the motor was controlled with a separate controller like the JP Electric Retract Controller.
Most folks were getting them from RC Castle. https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?...roduct_id=7458
I've got 2 in my private inventory stock.

So I need one of these for each main gear retract?

[OV10]

So I need one of these for each main gear retract?

NO...……….one unit will control up to 3 retracts

[La7 flier]

Your investigation looks sound and conclusive other than advising HH that they have a bad batch of retract motors.
What they have is bad circuit card controllers on the retracts(motors are good) which really doesn't surprise me.
Based on the part pic they posted of the retract, it looks like they put the circuit card on the trunnion side of the retract(end) which is a new design away from the FMS style retract design they used on the CZ T-28 where the card is on the bottom running parallel with the jackscrew which has been a long standing industry standard problem.
Time for them to step up and resolve the new design electro specs:smirk:

I contacted HH and advised them of my findings. They asked for pics of the multimeter showing input and output volatges which I provided. I am hoping to hear back from them next week although, frankly, Im not sure what they can do. I may go with your recommendation since that appears to be the only way I will ever get this plane in the air

[La7 flier]

NO...……….one unit will control up to 3 retracts

ok got it

[xviper]

My hobby shop said that the P-51D they brought in as special order was cancelled by the customer, so I went down and picked it up. Shoved the wing on and pushed in the wingtips and did a quick servo test of all the components. Yanked out each plug from the RX one by one and connected to the tester. (My tester is one of those cheap 5 buck ones that I get as a gift from RC Castle and is powered by a 3 cell LiPo wired into a HobbyKing 6v BEC.) Everything worked as they should but some control surfaces will need some final control rod adjustment to zero them out. Now, as for the retracts, they didn't all work on the first attempt. One main would not work, then the other main would not work, sometimes both would not work when first powered up, then the tail retract would not work. HOWEVER (and I've seen this on several recent HobbyKing planes), they needed to be cycled several times (and allowed to go their full cycle), sometimes 2, 3 and even 4 times before they worked perfectly. The servo tester knob had to be cranked all the way to the end and waited several seconds before cranking to the other end before things were initialized and began to work properly. Initially, I thought I had dead retracts or that I killed one or two. Not the case. I believe the sequencer needs to "wake up". This was the same for my HobbyKing Mig 17, HobbyKing C-130 and FlexJet (and a couple others). Oddly enough, my old FMS 1450mm P-51 sequencer did not need any "wake up".
PS. It is very difficult to test things via the plugs in the wing root (or wingtips) because it's nearly impossible to determine wire polarity without dissecting the plugs from their housing. Plugging them in backwards has been known (for me) to kill the occasional servo and cook a retract (Dynam for eg.).

[gentile]

I wanted to share my experience - this could have been bad. I ordered the Eflite P-511.5 last week and it’s built and ready to fly. I had an issue that looked similar to something me noted in this blog. The main gear would not operate. The gear doors would and the tail wheel worked fine. Just nothing on the mains. The problem turned out to be the plug in board in the fuselage that the wing plugs into. In the fuselage, the landing gear plug had two pins that were pushed out the back of the plug. I pulled the wing, pushed them back in through a very tight space in a hole that accesses the leads. But when put the wing back on the plane, those two pins backed out again. I tried pushing the pins in with the wing installed but to no avail. I put in tech request to Horizon but haven’t heard back on that. I saw three options: 1- remove the board mounted in the fuselage and make the repair, 2 - pull that lead out of the board in the fuselage and make the repair or 3 - bypass the board for that lead. Just bypassing the board was the quickest so I just ran a servo extension with a y-harness from the gear to the sequencer in the fuselage. I heat shrunk everything and it’s all good.

I feel sure HH would have made this right but I don’t have time for shipping stuff back and forth when I can just fix it. So I thought about bypassing everything on that board and chose not to. In troubleshooting this problem, I put the wing on and off countless times and no other pins have every moved and no other components on the plane had a problem. Additionally, now that the problem is fixed, the wings wings will never have to come off again. Luckily, I have a large car and can transport the plane put together.

I never followed the Havok jet issues to closure but I’m guessing this type board caused those crashes. With that said, an intermittent connection in any other component on this plane would have caused a crash. Even loss off the main gear would have resulted in a lot of damage.

My message to you guys is look at the connector board in the wing slot on the fuselage. If any pins are pushed in, you can see that. Likewise, look down through the small access hole in the fuselage where you can see the back side of this same board. If any pins are pushed out, you can clearly see that.

When HH responds to my tech question, I’ll be sure they understand what I found even though I was clear with the description. Go make sure you’re good so you don’t have to watch $500 spiral in and ruin your day.

[Johnnyrabuse]

This is my last Eflite plane I'll give an honest opinion and review buyer beware

First I bought the arf I don't use safe

The pros nice airframe

The cons

Hard wheels bounces let me crazy no absorbtion changed them to Dick Browns after

Lead weights tied to esc as ballast obstructs tray

Unavailability of parts no excuse

Inferior retracts they use the same on the FMS P40

Not in stock

I'll replace them with flightline units off spitfire with some modifications and a servo reverser

Lg doors are crap

Busted a prop on broken retract

So now it's on the bench it's an FMS plane with a fancy name

I have had bad events with FMS over the years

Bad retracts bad props bad motors bad servos stuff is just junk

So HH and Eflite are now on my never buy list

Ever

Now the world has taken a turn and most people will not be buying aircraft only diehards like myself will still fly

Older crowds going to stay home

And HH will be in the same doghouse banana hobby went to

Mark my words

[vduniec]

Here's my repaint. "Daddy's Girl" was flown by Ray Wetmore of the 359th Fighter Group. Decals are homemade using a combination of self-adhesive vinyl and waterslide decals. I added a 3D printed pilot and designed and printed a gunsight and the arched canopy frame behind the seat. Also, used some soldering wire for the cables coming out of the radios on the turtle deck. That's about it.