Metal upgrade for a TongDe M60A1 to improve reliability

[keilau]

That's because Louis more focused on the accuracy of the tank than actually running it and he definitely doesn't battle his tanks.

Coming from a plastic modeling background, I really admire and enjoy reading his work. However, I must say that the Tongde M60 is a very poor candidate for making an accurate display tank model. Oh, my modeling bug bites and I am reworking the tow cable again. Will post when I finish. Minor stuff compared to what Louis did.

[keilau]

Yep he almost completely rebuilt the tank and its armor plating. Lot of work cosmetically but very little in the way of mechanical running upgrades.

The TongDe M60 needs a host of mechanical running upgrades and they are not for the average modeler. Your suggestion to add ball bearing to the road wheel and metal swing arm makes a huge difference to the mechanical running. But it will not be possible without the torsion bar bracket that you designed. Tongde used soft alloy for the metal swing arms. I give them credit for making precision fit for the industry standard ball bearings. The tight pressure fit of the 48 pieces of bearing makes the installation tricky. The strong resin brackets allow me to press hard on them during install. Once I got rid of the loose nylon rings of the suspension with ball bearings, it is a different running tank.


The Tongde plastic gearbox came with a long crack on the case. I got the metal gearbox, but was disappointed that the cases were made with soft alloy again. I replaced all the mounting M3 screw with hard steel ones. During work on the suspension, I had to remove and reinstall the gearbox. No matter how careful I was, I stripped one of the 6 screw threads on the gearbox. The standard 18mm M3 machine screw cannot be tightened and the 20mm screw is too long to fit. I have to customer made a 19mm screw to mount the gearbox securely.

Now, the TD M60 runs very well. But I am still scratching my head on how to fix the headlight LEDs.

[tank_me]

Yep he almost completely rebuilt the tank and its armor plating. Lot of work cosmetically but very little in the way of mechanical running upgrades.

That's because Louis more focused on the accuracy of the tank than actually running it and he definitely doesn't battle his tanks.

[Rubicon99]

Just came across this build journal of the TongDe USMC M60A1 with ERA at the UK RC Tank Warfare site today. Apparently, a lot of our fellow members have been visiting this thread for months. Some very useful information.
https://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/foru...ic.php?t=34429

Yep he almost completely rebuilt the tank and its armor plating. Lot of work cosmetically but very little in the way of mechanical running upgrades.

[keilau]

Just came across this build journal of the TongDe USMC M60A1 with ERA at the UK RC Tank Warfare site today. Apparently, a lot of our fellow members have been visiting this thread for months. Some very useful information.

https://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34429

[keilau]

I just remembered Toad Man. How could I forget him. I just found he has a M60A1 RISE gallery here.

https://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/m60a1_reactive.htm

You are a treasure chest. Thanks.

[RichJohnson]

I just remembered Toad Man. How could I forget him. I just found he has a M60A1 RISE gallery here.

https://www.toadmanstankpictures.com/m60a1_reactive.htm

[keilau]

The USMC M60A1 RISC with ERA was given a lot of credit for the decisive win in tank battle during desert storm. I first thought that there ought to be lots of tank museum display or walk around for modeling reference. Was I wrong. There are a few exhibits of USMC M60A1 RISC, but the pictures are all behind closed door for member only. Many news clips for sure, but not useful for modeling. The Prime Portal collection RichJohnson referred to was the best and only one I saw.

Further search on Google, I found a Takom 1:35 model kit of the USMC M60A1 RISC with ERA. I cannot find a kit manual of it, but I have a build review of this kit from my Finescale Modeler subscription. It has some nice pictures of the kit details. It shows the same tow cable holding stab as the Tongde. But the 30 meters scaled cable is very long compared to the Takom kit.

At the National Museum of the Marine Corps, The picture of the M60A1 at entrance shows the same cable holding stab at the end of the tank.

https://www.usmcmuseum.com/blog/the-m60s-last-hurrah

Many thanks to HDMM, tank_me and RichJohnson for your insight and suggestions.

I will do no more work on the tow cable. Wash and painting were done. After the decals, I will declare victory. (I may write a summary of my Tongde M60 impression.) By far, it is the best running 1:16 scale RC tank among 5 other Heng Long's, no Tamiya or other high priced brands.

[keilau]

Try googling for pictures of the real tank. Prime portal might have pictures http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/gre...60a1_rise_era/

@RichJohnson, that's the most comprehensive collection of pictures of US Marine M60A1 with ERA. One conclusion can be drawn from these pictures is that there is no one single way to hold the tow cables on a M60. I will model my Tongde M60A1 tow cable using the Tamiya manual.


There is a Cantigny park war meseum with a good collection of WW1 tank to Abrams. The tank park is administrated by the First Division Meseum with a desert storm theme. They have more than one M60 Patton tanks of the US Army A3 variety. The park is in Wheaton, IL and only 20 minutes from where I live.

[RichJohnson]

Try googling for pictures of the real tank. Prime portal might have pictures http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/gre...60a1_rise_era/

[keilau]

That may be the correct location to mount them for the ERA equipped tank, but there is no way they would be routed through that lifting ring. A) the end connector probably wouldn't fit through the lifting ring, B) the cable would be too stiff to route it that way, and C) you want to be able to access the cables fast in a combat zone. Any fiddling around trying to get them through a lifting hook would be time you don't have when you are being shot at or need to move fast. Tow cables on an M60 or any modern US tank are HEAVY and rough. You want to handle them with gloves and usually more than one person. The cable itself will cut your hands if manipulated ungloved.

Points well taken. I should not have followed the Tongde manul blindly to route the cable through the lifting ring. I was not able to find a picture of this M60 version so I followed the Tamiya (1:35 scale) plastic model manual.

I am trying to figure out how much mod I should make. Tongde molded the tow cable hook to the top of the cable stab. To make it correct, I will have to cut the stab off the hook, glue it to the tank and position the cable hook through the stab. Probably glue the hook to the top of the fence. I will give it a try tonight and post the picture.

[tank_me]

That may be the correct location to mount them for the ERA equipped tank, but there is no way they would be routed through that lifting ring. A) the end connector probably wouldn't fit through the lifting ring, B) the cable would be too stiff to route it that way, and C) you want to be able to access the cables fast in a combat zone. Any fiddling around trying to get them through a lifting hook would be time you don't have when you are being shot at or need to move fast. Tow cables on an M60 or any modern US tank are HEAVY and rough. You want to handle them with gloves and usually more than one person. The cable itself will cut your hands if manipulated ungloved.

[keilau]

I also used picture hanging wire. The cable arrangement Tongde came up with fir the rear fenders seems odd, I haven't found any pictures of a real M60 set up this way. Maybe there is one somewhere? The tow cable setup on the turret is wrong for sure, they have one cable wrapping around the rear of the turret, then I see there are slots back there. This is how it should be...two cables. I've eliminated the cables ffrom the rear fenders and modified the turret cables to look this the real one here.

Over 15000 M60 Patton tanks were produced in A1, A2 and A3 variants in parallel. Your model is the US Army A3 variant. Tongde also made a US Marine Corps M60A1 for the Operation Desert Storm mission. There are several 1:35 scale plastic models of the US Marine Corps M60A1. The Tamiya is probably the most popular and has a desert storm version. I suspect that the Tongde designer never saw a M60 tank either, but tried to copy the smaller plastic model. Tongde did a very poor job copying when you look at their manual pictures of the A1 and A3.

I have the Tongde US Marine Corps M60A1 RC tank and model the tow cable accordingly. The tow cables were moved from the torrent to the rear deck to make room for the reactive armor plates.

[HDMM]

I also used picture hanging wire. The cable arrangement Tongde came up with fir the rear fenders seems odd, I haven't found any pictures of a real M60 set up this way. Maybe there is one somewhere? The tow cable setup on the turret is wrong for sure, they have one cable wrapping around the rear of the turret, then I see there are slots back there. This is how it should be...two cables. I've eliminated the cables ffrom the rear fenders and modified the turret cables to look this the real one here.

[keilau]

Yeah, I wasn't referring to speaker wire, but stainless wire used for various uses. It's usually with the rolls of chain. You can usually buy it by the foot.

https://www.amazon.com/Thimble-stainless-Perfect-Railing-Outdoor/dp/B09J5FSK7G/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=Stainless+Steel+Cable&qid=1698 886865&sr=8-8

I should have look for picture hanging wires. The gauge 18 wire is approximately 1 mm in diameter. Anything bigger will be too large for the Tongde plastic tow cable hook since I have to hand drill the holes for the cable. (Yes, I know that 1 mm is still too small for scale steel cable. A gauge 16 cable may be possible if TD mold the cable hole on their B7 part.) I want multi stranded wire which looks like steel cable in scale, even if in reduced scale.

I already glue the plastic hook and cable together. Replacing the cable now is too risky to ruin the hook.
part

[tank_me]

Yeah, I wasn't referring to speaker wire, but stainless wire used for various uses. It's usually with the rolls of chain. You can usually buy it by the foot.

https://www.amazon.com/Thimble-stainless-Perfect-Railing-Outdoor/dp/B09J5FSK7G/ref=sr_1_8?keywords=Stainless+Steel+Cable&qid=1698886865&sr=8-8

[Rubicon99]

I was not able to find gauge 18 twisted cable. Plenty of single solid wire in gauge 18 at hardware store. The gauge 18 speaker cable uses heavier stranded wires. I should have used them instead of the test lead wire where the stranded wires were too fine.

The tow cable thing is fun to do even if it is not 100% successful. Now, I have to do the repair of the poorly configured LED headlight. Wish me luck.

Take a look at pictures hanging wire. Also Hobby Lobby in the jewelry making section has some pretty nice wire options.

[keilau]

Your local big box home improvement store or local hardware store would have real steel cable pretty cheap. I just hollow out the end of the tow cable, take it with me to the store, make sure it fits and just buy a couple feet of cable for less than $10. Then it looks and acts like the real thing. Steel tow cables aren't very flexible in real life and they are heavy as heck.

I was not able to find gauge 18 twisted cable. Plenty of single solid wire in gauge 18 at hardware store. The gauge 18 speaker cable uses heavier stranded wires. I should have used them instead of the test lead wire where the stranded wires were too fine.

The tow cable thing is fun to do even if it is not 100% successful. Now, I have to do the repair of the poorly configured LED headlight. Wish me luck.

[tank_me]

Your local big box home improvement store or local hardware store would have real steel cable pretty cheap. I just hollow out the end of the tow cable, take it with me to the store, make sure it fits and just buy a couple feet of cable for less than $10. Then it looks and acts like the real thing. Steel tow cables aren't very flexible in real life and they are heavy as heck.

[keilau]

Before I go to the finishing step, I turned on the M60 to check it out. It came on for a few minutes and then went dead. No sound, no light. The battery is normal at 8 volts. The LED outputs are about 1 volt and unstable. The ESC output has no DC offset. I did not open the TDC-X multifunctional mainboard to see whether there is any burnt parts. But I did not smell anything.

I searched AliExpress and e-bay, but cannot find any spare TDC-X mainboard for sale. I received the TongDe US Patton M60A1 tank in early May, 2023. I don't know if there is any channel to request under warranty service. I will contact Nova Hobby to find out.

This TDC-X is the second dead mainboard I had. The last one was a Heng Long TK-5.3 quite a while ago.

Fortunately, the multifunctional mainboard is one thing that Tongde made compatable with Heng Long. I will borrow one board from one of my HL tanks to test the M60. I hope to confirm that the malfunction part is the mainboard only.

I report whatever happens to my RC tanks and do not imply that TD product is inferior.

I exchanged a few email with Nova Hobby about the TD M60 problem. Tongde has only a 30 days warranty. No chance of replacing the mainboard under warranty. Nova offered to sell me a replacement TDC-X for $52 shipped from Canada. I told them that I am using a HL TK-6.0S as surrogate. They confirmed that the HL board should work properly.

I have a working TD transmitter. The TDC-X board has servo support. My next project is the servo recoil/elevation of the HL 2A6. If I like the servo adaptation, I may get the TDC-X board for a second servo tank project.