Challenging, Challenger for Keilau.

[Meter Rat]

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products...f8b6e367&_ss=r


As Rubicon99 said, the Tamiya original track is a perfect fit for the HL Challenger2 sprockets.

Tamiya tracks are unobtainable there in the UK. There is a lot of difference in access to products over in the USA. A lot of stuff that is available over there is not shipped to the UK. Then again a lot of stuff that was available from Europe has now become prohibitively expensive since Breksit. I built this before I knew what was what, and who was who. All I wanted was a better looking pair of track, than the metal HL tracks it originally came with.

[Meter Rat]

Not even the Tamiya tracks would be helpful being run as shown with all that "grass" gumming up the works. Wet "tall" grass or even wet "medium" grass is a track killer especially if one is doing a number of turns in it. It's almost as bad as mud.

Grass and mud are two thing I have learned to avoid if turns are going to be needed.

My tank has been built, modified, and adapted to cope with the terrain I have available. And to look good on the shelf. This tank runs very well, even with the drive sprockets and road wheels clogged up as shown. Even with the grass cut short in the garden, it drags grass up, when running straight. This seems a problem with all rear drive tanks, but does not affect my two front drive Tigers. I now run standard course, which is approximately 1km. This has a mixture of terrain from long grass, short grass, mud, water, stones, and woodland. I am happy when they are able to run this without de-tracking. I realise there are many solutions to problems, and this was mine, working alone and isolated, without access to assistance or support from a club, or group, or either a decent model shop. If you do not believe how well it runs, I will try to get a video of it on the course I use.

[Meter Rat]

Excellent post sharing your many trials and finally tribulations with your Challenging Challenger Mr, Rat.👍👍👍 I'm sure your information shared will be helpful to others and at the very least console others who may experience similar issues.

Do you still want to buy it, to help your wife with the lawn?

[Meter Rat]

As an aside to this, I have removed one of the track guides from the sprockets to see if it helps prevent the build up of grass. Being able to do a direct comparison with and without guides over the same course and terrain should be interesting.

[Rubicon99]

My tank has been built, modified, and adapted to cope with the terrain I have available. And to look good on the shelf. This tank runs very well, even with the drive sprockets and road wheels clogged up as shown. Even with the grass cut short in the garden, it drags grass up, when running straight. This seems a problem with all rear drive tanks, but does not affect my two front drive Tigers. I now run standard course, which is approximately 1km. This has a mixture of terrain from long grass, short grass, mud, water, stones, and woodland. I am happy when they are able to run this without de-tracking. I realise there are many solutions to problems, and this was mine, working alone and isolated, without access to assistance or support from a club, or group, or either a decent model shop. If you do not believe how well it runs, I will try to get a video of it on the course I use.

I have a few Challenger 2s both first generation versions (talk about a problems 🥴🥴) I know just how well they can be made to run with a bit of patients and "out of the box" thinking through its issues. Trust me I totally know what it's like to be "on your own" having to figure out how to solve RC tank issues. Try being an RC tanker in the pre internet era. So having been where you are with little to no assistance taught me what works and what does not. The struggle learning without help is what makes for depth of knowledge and the lesson learned can be applied to most other RC tanks. Sharing knowledge and "how to" is one of the big things that this forum was originally set up to do and has been fairly successful at.

By all means post a video here or Instagram or YouTube it's alway nice to have live action content of ones tanks. I post mine on Instagram at Fsttanks and on YouTube as Fsttanks1 (although that channel is fairly new so not much there fight now).

[Handy Lance]

How about a modified toothbrush/brass brush just over top of tread, angled as to push grass off tread. I’ve been considering some sort of tread cleaner at the top rear of my Abrams sprocket. I’ll experiment and report back👍🏻 something like this but refined

I plan on running into/over/through whatever gets in front of my tank 👍🏻🏴☠️👍🏻 scale of course 😂

[Rubicon99]

How about a modified toothbrush/brass brush just over top of tread, angled as to push grass off tread. I’ve been considering some sort of tread cleaner at the top rear of my Abrams sprocket. I’ll experiment and report back👍🏻 something like this but refined

I plan on running into/over/through whatever gets in front of my tank 👍🏻🏴☠️👍🏻 scale of course 😂

I could tell you what exactly is going to happen with your idea of using a brush, but half the fun of this hobby for many of us is experimenting with ideas. So have at it and you will learn first hand to what degree it will work or does not work.

[keilau]

I could tell you what exactly is going to happen with your idea of using a brush, but half the fun of this hobby for many of us is experimenting with ideas. So have at it and you will learn first hand to what degree it will work or does not work.

tank_me comment on wanting to try things out myself. I was honored.

You are a glutton for punishment aren't ya? The Challenger is another tank that is not great with track retention. It seems those are your favorite tanks...

[Handy Lance]

I could tell you what exactly is going to happen with your idea of using a brush, but half the fun of this hobby for many of us is experimenting with ideas. So have at it and you will learn first hand to what degree it will work or does not work.

so you have seen it? You know what will happen?
I’m not sure how to gauge this response, so I will assume nothing.

thanks for your input

[Meter Rat]

Guys/girls/none gender specific. Please don’t fall out, or get arsey with each other. This is exactly why I like this hobby. Experimental engineering. Handy Lance, please give it ago and show us your results. Good or bad. A lot of tanks in WW2 had equipment to remove excess build ups around the tracks.

[Rubicon99]

so you have seen it? You know what will happen?
I’m not sure how to gauge this response, so I will assume nothing.

thanks for your input

Seen it, tried it and know exactly what will happen if you use it in wet grass, mud, sand or driving through weeds. There are reasons you don't see it being used.

The problems associated with sprockets and "debris" sucked up by the tracks (grass, sand, mud, dirt, snow and such) is on the inside side between the sprockets and tracks not the outside. Brushes add complexity to an already complex system of moving parts in an area that is not the typically the problem.

I still say experimenting is half the fun and learning the information first hand is far more valuable then just reading about it. Honestly there is very little that has not been tried by the RC tank community. Some of it works well and has become common to see as modifications, other stuff is hit or miss. Then there is the stuff that well was fun trying but ultimately did not improve anything and sometimes made the things worse.

[keilau]

Not even the Tamiya tracks would be helpful being run as shown with all that "grass" gumming up the works. Wet "tall" grass or even wet "medium" grass is a track killer especially if one is doing a number of turns in it. It's almost as bad as mud.

Grass and mud are two thing I have learned to avoid if turns are going to be needed.

I do not have the extensive experience of yours. I learnt the importance of using the correct sprocket with the track. By that I mean that the length of each individual track link must match the spacing of the sprocket tooth. Yes, I agree that even a perfectly matched sprocket/track pair still pulls grass and trap dirt, but they are much less likely to throw track. Looking at Meter Rat picture, it seems that the grass dirt may be pushing the track away from the sprocket to cause the mismatch and eventual detracking. I have not seen this before since there are lots of room between the sprocket middle and the track surface. I never run my tanks in mud, but did in backyard lawn.

[Rubicon99]

I do not have the extensive experience of yours. I learnt the importance of using the correct sprocket with the track. By that I mean that the length of each individual track link must match the spacing of the sprocket tooth. Yes, I agree that even a perfectly matched sprocket/track pair still pulls grass and trap dirt, but they are much less likely to throw track. Looking at Meter Rat picture, it seems that the grass dirt may be pushing the track away from the sprocket to cause the mismatch and eventual detracking. I have not seen this before since there are lots of room between the sprocket middle and the track surface. I never run my tanks in mud, but did in backyard lawn.

Meter is experiencing "sprocket packing". It is largely cause in his case by the sprocket track retaining rings packing with grass and lifting the tracks off the sprockets. Once this happens the effect becomes compounded and the track can easily "walk off" the sprocket.

Removing the inside ring will greatly reduces the packing issues and is highly effective for sand, mud dirt or other loose free flowing debris. With wet grass it will still pack the sprocket but it will take longer to do so.

This is a standard modification many of us have been doing for years. Not something we discovered, but something borrowed for real tanks. Seem some real tanks like the T72/90 for example have the same issues.

Inside ring removed. Shown here on one of my M60.

[cmdrcody]

I see you've also drilled holes in the drive sprocket. More debris relief ??

[Meter Rat]

I see you've also drilled holes in the drive sprocket. More debris relief ??

I believe on on full size tanks they are called mud holes/relief.

[Rubicon99]

I see you've also drilled holes in the drive sprocket. More debris relief ??

Yes. These sprockets are "take offs" from one of my old HL Abrams before the new more correct HL Abrams sprockets with holes become available. I would drill out the reliefs which greatly helped with the evacuation of loose soils and this added to even better track retention when in combination with the use of one retaining ring.

[Meter Rat]

Managed to put the Challenger on my garden test route, with out the track guide. Far less build up of grass on the drive sprockets, and no de-tracking issues. Plenty of debris trapped around the transmission. All trapped in by the side skirts.

https://youtu.be/NeOPZAR_EMc?si=3mHHR5vqzJJde7yR

Debris in the sprockets.



Took out one of my Tigers, on the same route. And in the same conditions. This is the advantage of a constant route. It can be used to evaluate any model in different weathers. No build up of debris around the Tigers running gear..

[Meter Rat]

To keep this on track. (Or being a Challenger, probably detracked). And so as not to hijack another’s post. I have posted it back in this thread. I have ordered a pair of 3S batteries. £19.95 for one, £22.95 for two, with free delivery Go figure? So not the best quality then from Amazon. But I’m not paying £22 delivery on a good quality battery that was £30 despite the price including free delivery to the main land. Ah! But you come under Highlands and Islands sir. We are an hour outside of Glasgow, so hardly remote. I have also taken into account that as these are probably not the best quality, I will ensure they are in charging bags, only charged when I am present, on a suitable charger, and charged at low current.

Anyway, this will be a little experiment to find the speed differences between, batteries, 2S, high speed, 3S low speed, and 3S high speed, using the setting on the controller.

Given the warnings of others, and the work I put into it, I feel confident, that if driven sensibly, and not driven flat out over unstable terrain it will survive, the odd high speed dash in a straight line.

Mr Chef wrote.
Ohhhh you go with your bad self Mr. Rat! I totally look forward to your experiment, hopefully cool pics and vids and of course the obligatory results/repair posts...😉

I’m sure there may be some.

[Handy Lance]

To keep this on track. (Or being a Challenger, probably detracked). And so as not to hijack another’s post. I have posted it back in this thread. I have ordered a pair of 3S batteries. £19.95 for one, £22.95 for two, with free delivery Go figure? So not the best quality then from Amazon. But I’m not paying £22 delivery on a good quality battery that was £30 despite the price including free delivery to the main land. Ah! But you come under Highlands and Islands sir. We are an hour outside of Glasgow, so hardly remote. I have also taken into account that as these are probably not the best quality, I will ensure they are in charging bags, only charged when I am present, on a suitable charger, and charged at low current.

Anyway, this will be a little experiment to find the speed differences between, batteries, 2S, high speed, 3S low speed, and 3S high speed, using the setting on the controller.

Given the warnings of others, and the work I put into it, I feel confident, that if driven sensibly, and not driven flat out over unstable terrain it will survive, the odd high speed dash in a straight line.

Mr Chef wrote.
Ohhhh you go with your bad self Mr. Rat! I totally look forward to your experiment, hopefully cool pics and vids and of course the obligatory results/repair posts...😉

I’m sure there may be some.

I definitely think we should do a 10m speed comparison (not competition) it would be interesting to see all the different tank setups times 👍🏻

I’ll do it once my correct 7.1 gets here and start a new thread 👍🏻

rules
1. Mark off 10m (dry asphalt,tarmac probably best world wide similarity?)
2. rolling start wherever before start line, as full throttle as you are comfortable run the 10m twice
3. Have a buddy keep time
4. Report back times with
chassis weight
tranny used
Battery used

film it (if possible)like I said I’ll go first next week if people are game?

[Rubicon99]

I definitely think we should do a 10m speed comparison (not competition) it would be interesting to see all the different tank setups times 👍🏻

I’ll do it once my correct 7.1 gets here and start a new thread 👍🏻

rules
1. Mark off 10m (dry asphalt,tarmac probably best world wide similarity?)
2. rolling start wherever before start line, as full throttle as you are comfortable run the 10m twice
3. Have a buddy keep time
4. Report back times with
chassis weight
tranny used
Battery used

film it (if possible)like I said I’ll go first next week if people are game?

Friendly head to head international competition (comparison) with set verifiable parameters. Now that IS SOMETHING NEW in the RC tank world!!! 👏👏👏👏