Optimize the Tongde M60A1 to run on grass lawn with 390 motor and metal tracks

[keilau]

My left hand neighbor and I both have 1/3 arca lots. The builder made our open space adjacent to each other creating a good space for tank running. The lawn has fairly uneven terrain. The lawn is well manicured and kept to 2" high. The lawn is too slippery for tank battle or sharp turning of the tank, but ideal for buggy type running. M60 with 380 motor with TD plastic track drives well on hard packed dirt road of RC tank battlefield. 390 motor with TD metal track drives well on slightly soft and slippery grass lawn.

The 390 motor and metal track upgrade works very well on grass lawn. The TD metal track feels much heavier than similar HL metal track because of its all solid construction (no hollowed out back side). The upgraded M60A1 weights 11# 2.4oz. It is the heaviest tank in my collection. Despite its weight, the torsion bar suspension works well as is too. It is most important that the M60 levels evenly and it does.

More detail of my upgrade can be found in my M60 metal upgrade posts.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-cars-tanks-trucks-and-more/rc-tanks/387060-metal-upgrade-for-a-tongde-m60a1-to-improve-reliability

[keilau]

My left hand neighbor and I both have 1/3 arca lots. The builder made our open space adjacent to each other creating a good space for tank running. The lawn has fairly uneven terrain. The lawn is well manicured and kept to 2" high. The lawn is too slippery for tank battle or sharp turning of the tank, but ideal for buggy type running. M60 with 380 motor with TD plastic track drives well on hard packed dirt road of RC tank battlefield. 390 motor with TD metal track drives well on slightly soft and slippery grass lawn.

The 390 motor and metal track upgrade works very well on grass lawn. The TD metal track feels much heavier than similar HL metal track because of its all solid construction (no hollowed out back side). The upgraded M60A1 weights 11# 2.4oz. It is the heaviest tank in my collection. Despite its weight, the torsion bar suspension works well as is too. It is most important that the M60 levels evenly and it does.

More detail of my upgrade can be found in my M60 metal upgrade posts.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-cars-tanks-trucks-and-more/rc-tanks/387060-metal-upgrade-for-a-tongde-m60a1-to-improve-reliability

I drive my M60 on dirt, concrete, and grass. The metal tracks were far too heavy and dug into the grass badly. They also put an undue strain on the drivetrain and suspension. (When I state grass, I mean grass that is 3" tall and full of weeds)

In my opinion, you are better off with the plastic tracks. I was enjoying driving my M60 around the yard yesterday evening. With the plastic tracks, the tank performs better in grass than any of my other tank models, with no sign of binding or riding up the cog teeth or idlers.

After a year of driving the Tongde M60A1 on metal tracks, I finally comprehended the warning and advice from MaverickTank. But it is not until after I burnt 2 390 motors and 3 sets of HL TK motherboards.

It took several months of testing for me to figure out a hypothesis on the failure mechanism. The Tongde Metal tracks, at over 4 pounds is too heavy for the 390 motors running at 25000 rpm. It runs beautifully in my backyard lawn, After extended run (~20 minutes or more), the 390 motor overheat and jam. It caused the motherboard to send a huge stalled current to the motor which burnt both the motor and the motherboard. It happened to one side of the tank first and the other side would continue to run.

I removed the Tongde metal tracks and put back the TD plastic tracks. I kept the 390 motors because it do not overheat with the plastic tracks. I prefer the 390 motor with plastic track over 380 motor with metal track.

I am contradicting myself of the original thread title. On the Tongde M60, the 390 motor and TD metal track is a disastrous combo.

[keilau]

keilau

Did you reply to yourself or is this a continuation of your first post?

This has shown up as "Spam" in the Moderation Notifications.

I will Approve this if it is your post, otherwise I will Dismiss and Delete it.

Let me know.

Best, LB

Yes, I replied to myself because I updated my earlier opinion on the Tongde M60 Patton RC tank track selection.

[RichJohnson]

The Tongde metal m60 track is very heavy at almost 4 pounds.
running 390 motors will help your performance for sure with that track.

what most of us have done is go the opposite direction and install the plastic track on the metal edition tanks. This increases the tanks performance and has the visual appearance of rubber padded track that metal track does not offer.
TD M60s don’t have the best 380 motos and early runs had poorly cut pinion gears that eventually get chewed up.
I have had to replace the motos In two of my M60s just due to the pinions giving up, these were first and second runs early on. One I installed taigen 380s which perform fine but the other i just installed henglong,ont blue painted motors into and holy cow did the performance increase. I’m going to get some more of these blue motos and go back and retro fit some other tanks as I the rotate through the depot for service.

[keilau]

The Tongde metal m60 track is very heavy at almost 4 pounds.
running 390 motors will help your performance for sure with that track.

what most of us have done is go the opposite direction and install the plastic track on the metal edition tanks. This increases the tanks performance and has the visual appearance of rubber padded track that metal track does not offer.
TD M60s don’t have the best 380 motos and early runs had poorly cut pinion gears that eventually get chewed up.
I have had to replace the motos In two of my M60s just due to the pinions giving up, these were first and second runs early on. One I installed taigen 380s which perform fine but the other i just installed henglong,ont blue painted motors into and holy cow did the performance increase. I’m going to get some more of these blue motos and go back and retro fit some other tanks as I the rotate through the depot for service.

Before I tried the 390 motor, I replaced the TD 380 with Tamiya standard 380 which is Bonafide Mabuchi RS-380PH, Later HL substituted the brass pinion gear with some steel looking pinion gear which I use on the 390 on the TD. Yes, the pinion gear shape is very important.

[keilau]

Does anyone have any technical information on this expensive "Dual-current Driving System for Tongde 1/16 M60A3 M60A1 M60W RC Tanks" and how well it works with the TD metal tracks?

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/td-metalsteeldrivingsystem-dzn1?variant=45383230226682

There are many sellers of this dual-current gearbox on ebay, but no one gives any meaningful information.

[Rubicon99]

Does anyone have any technical information on this expensive "Dual-current Driving System for Tongde 1/16 M60A3 M60A1 M60W RC Tanks" and how well it works with the TD metal tracks?

https://www.toucanhobby.com/products/td-metalsteeldrivingsystem-dzn1?variant=45383230226682

There are many sellers of this dual-current gearbox on ebay, but no one gives any meaningful information.

Been running one of the TD (48:1)DCD and one from DKLM (36:1) in two of my M60s for well over a year now. Those are the ones with the Tamiya tracks.

Neither is a direct drop in you will have to make it fit which is easier than it sounds. In fact it is ridiculously easy if you can be open minded and not go down a rabbit hole trying to make it complicated. It also requires no permanent modifications to the tank and is easily reversible.

Performance of the TD CDC is excellent and driving dynamics are smooth and predictable. It's not as fast as the stock motors (at 7.2-8.4v) and nowhere as fast as your M60 with 390 motors, but the CDC uses a 540 motors coupled with its low gear ratio which provides the M60 with nearly unstoppable torque. Now IF you use the higher voltage LiPoly in the 11.1 range then you will see top speeds similar to what have now.

I run my TD CDC at ~7.2-8.4v and this is near perfect for everything except making speed dashes across large open areas during an IR battle.

This is the with the TD CDC. There are a bunch of videos of it running on my Instagram @ Fsttanks

[keilau]

Rubicon99 thank you for taking the time to post this lengthy and very useful post. It gives me a lot of ideas.

For now, on the TD M60A1, I will stick with the all TD metal drive chain with TD plastic track. It is a better running tank compared to all my other HengLong's. The Tamiya M60 track is impossible to find on the market. and the dual current drive system is very expensive at $260.

My idea of fun upgrade is to find a way to adapt the cheaper HengLong dual current drive. The Tamiya track can be a shortened Abrams track. I do not have an extra Abrams track yet. (I paid just over $100 for an used Tamiya track for the Abrams a few months ago.) However, I cannot use a Tamiya track on the TD M60 as is. The TD sprocket is too wide for the Tamiya track.

[keilau]

Heng Long market 3 versions of the dual-current drive system which look very similar to the Tongde one. The versions are plastic gear in plastic case, steel gear in plastic case and steel gear in metal case. The HL steel gear in plastic case version is half the price of the TD. I am very tempted, but need information on the configuration and length of motor drive axle.

[Rubicon99]

The two companies use very different internal set ups. TD uses 100% steel gears and HL uses a combination of drive belts and steel gears. The HL has a spotty reputation for reliability something I can attest to with the two I owned prior.

The TD is a very high quality transmission in fact it seems even higher quality than the CDC I have from DKLM. Yes the TD is expensive but for good reasons.

[tank_me]

I have the Heng Long plastic version (which I heard nothing but bad things about) installed in my 3D printed Kranvagn. I paid around $65 for it and had very low expectations. The Kranvagn isn't extremely light, but it is light for it's size. The tracks are long and about the width of a King Tiger, but they are made from a semi-flexible resin. The plastic gearbox has performed flawlessly so far, but I also added bearings in the plastic Kranvagn hull as close to the sprocket as possible to provide extra support for the drive shafts. Everyone comments how smooth the Kranvagn runs when I bring it out to battle. I actually cracked the hub of a sprocket before having any issues with the transmission. I actually glued the hub back together with MEK and filled the area around it with a hard two part epoxy resin which ensures the hub is fully supported now.

[keilau]

I have the Heng Long plastic version (which I heard nothing but bad things about) installed in my 3D printed Kranvagn. I paid around $65 for it and had very low expectations. The Kranvagn isn't extremely light, but it is light for it's size. The tracks are long and about the width of a King Tiger, but they are made from a semi-flexible resin. The plastic gearbox has performed flawlessly so far, but I also added bearings in the plastic Kranvagn hull as close to the sprocket as possible to provide extra support for the drive shafts. Everyone comments how smooth the Kranvagn runs when I bring it out to battle.

Your sharing of the experience with the HL plastic dual current gearbox is like music to my ear. I always want to try a dual current gearbox, but was held back by the $250 price tag of the all steel version. The all plastic dual current is more expensive now, but still can be had for $80. I am ordering one for the TD M60. I have a spare HL Abrams metal sprocket, but still need to hunt for a Tamiya track.

[tank_me]

Your sharing of the experience with the HL plastic dual current gearbox is like music to my ear. I always want to try a dual current gearbox, but was held back by the $250 price tag of the all steel version. The all plastic dual current is more expensive now, but still can be had for $80. I am ordering one for the TD M60. I have a spare HL Abrams metal sprocket, but still need to hunt for a Tamiya track.

Just keep in mind this tank isn't all that heavy and it's basically on plastic tracks, but I don't baby it. I've run it around the field at full speed quite a bit.

[keilau]

Just keep in mind this tank isn't all that heavy and it's basically on plastic tracks, but I don't baby it. I've run it around the field at full speed quite a bit.

I have only a single M60A1 by Tongde which is the only basis for my assessment. Compared to most HengLong, the Tongde is molded in thinner wall and the whole tank is more flexible. Its advantage is being molded in much tighter tolerance. I added 2 good quality ball bearing to each road wheel, but no metal wheel. I also added metal sprocket and idler wheel to the TD plastic track. When the whole tank is assembled, it shows excellent alignment and roll easily by hand. I have the TD metal gearbox, a 2.5" speaker and 2S2P Lithium Ion battery. The total weight is similar to other HL medium tanks and drives very well in my backyard.

I am waiting patiently to see what the dual current gearbox will do for it.

[keilau]

The dual currency system gearbox arrived today with no instructions. The old video posted by tank_me is my only guide.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-cars-tanks-trucks-and-more/rc-tanks/359451-pdsgb-propulsion-dynamics-steel-gearbox-and-hl-dual-current-gearbox-discussion

I have no prior experience with pdsgb gearbox. I will work slowly and delibrately. When I open the package, the gearbox feels very heavy. I ordered the all plastic version, but the case looks metallic.

[tank_me]

The dual currency system gearbox arrived today with no instructions. The old video posted by tank_me is my only guide.

https://www.hobbysquawk.com/forum/rc-cars-tanks-trucks-and-more/rc-tanks/359451-pdsgb-propulsion-dynamics-steel-gearbox-and-hl-dual-current-gearbox-discussion

I have no prior experience with pdsgb gearbox. I will work slowly and delibrately. When I open the package, the gearbox feels very heavy. I ordered the all plastic version, but the case looks metallic.

If the case is metallic, it has metal gears. The only one that has plastic gears is the one with the plastic outer shell. If the gears that slide over the outdrives are metal, then all the gears are metal. The plastic version has off white colored nylon gears on the outdrive shafts.

[keilau]

If the case is metallic, it has metal gears. The only one that has plastic gears is the one with the plastic outer shell. If the gears that slide over the outdrives are metal, then all the gears are metal. The plastic version has off white colored nylon gears on the outdrive shafts.

Yes, the gears that slide over the outdrives are black in color, not the white colored nylon gears that I expect. And the whole gearbox is heavy. I have not find time to open the case yet.

I expect picture #1 and got picture #2 instead I am very happy, not complaining.

Did DKLMRC publish an instruction for their pdsgb gearbox?

[Rubicon99]

Yes, the gears that slide over the outdrives are black in color, not the white colored nylon gears that I expect. And the whole gearbox is heavy. I have not find time to open the case yet.

I expect picture #1 and got picture #2 instead I am very happy, not complaining.

Did DKLMRC publish an instruction for their pdsgb gearbox?

There are no published instructions. But the installation is pretty intuitive.

[keilau]

There are no published instructions. But the installation is pretty intuitive.

Intuitively, I will connect the MFU M1 power outlet to the 550 drive motor and M2 to the smaller steering motor. It will be nice to have confirmation from the gearbox manual.

[tank_me]

I wouldn't complain either as the metal one is much more expensive than the plastic one... :) The big 550 motor should be M1. The smaller motor should be connected to M2. M1 is responsible for the track movement. M2 is responsible for turning. You do have to change the setting on the transmitter to enable the "dual current" gearbox. Dual current is a poor translation for dual differential as far as I can tell. I haven't really seen any definitive install docs. I haven't searched YouTube as I've installed a half-dozen of these at this point so I don't really need a manual.