Hobby Eagle A3L Gyro

[Grossman56]

Great to hear it's working for you Tom! Adverse yaw is what you were experiencing and the A/R mix will settle that down. When I was first learning to fly, I really didn't notice it, but as I progressed, it became apparent. Now, I just knock it down with a touch of rudder. If you have difficulty with your hand, this is a great way to go. As for the A3L, I happened to have my P-40 up this morning. Originally, I had a gyro in her, but after the rebuild (the infamous Nefi Triangle) I didn't bother reinstalling it. Your really notice the extra work when in breezy conditions (it's always 'breezy' in Wyoming), not a big deal because it's such a great plane to fly anyway, but there is a lot more corrections to be done. I compare it to my P-51 and you can really see the difference.

Grossman56

[Tom Smith]

Thanks guys. I never got very good with my left hand on the rudder stick, so having the aileron/rudder mix really makes things nice for me. I flew the plane once, with the A/R mix, and it flies nice but it is a very light model and really gets banged around in our costal breezes. I installed the A3L and have it all set up now. The 3D pot is turned all the way down and I have the other pot mapped to the twist knob on my DX8g2. Stabilizer is on all the time but I can twist the knob counter clockwise and turn the pot all the way down to off, or crank it up as needed. I will put that A/R mix back in and take it back up with the stabilizer fully off then twist the knob to partial and see what happens. I'll keep ya posted. Thanks again. Tom

[Grossman56]

Been searching this thread again and I can't seem to find and answer to my question. Can I use an aileron/rudder mix with the A3L hooked up in normal mode only? I have the gain control set to my rotary knob. The model is a Dynam Gee Bee Super Sportster. Tom

I do in one of my Pandoras and its assigned to a switch, switch on, Aileron/Rudder mix. switch off back to normal both with the gyro on.

Grossman56

[xviper]

Been searching this thread again and I can't seem to find and answer to my question. Can I use an aileron/rudder mix with the A3L hooked up in normal mode only? I have the gain control set to my rotary knob. The model is a Dynam Gee Bee Super Sportster. Tom

I've not done it but I don't see why not. Your mix is in the TX. The signals will still go through the gyro as individual channels. The gyro will still act upon the AIL and RUD as they normally would. Yes, keep the setting in the gyro as "normal wing/tail". Test it on the bench before flying.

[Tom Smith]

Been searching this thread again and I can't seem to find and answer to my question. Can I use an aileron/rudder mix with the A3L hooked up in normal mode only? I have the gain control set to my rotary knob. The model is a Dynam Gee Bee Super Sportster. Tom

[xviper]

xviper - I appreciate your input as it sounds like you have tested this out. I am still left wondering just what 3D mode is engineered to do, and why it's ability to function would be dictated by flight speed (especially if one has the ability to dial in gain as desired with a Tx knob switch)? Also when you say "reflex" I assume you mean a bit of up-elevator, yes?

Yes, UP elevator - only for the launch. I've only tried 3D gain once on a jet and that was the last time, never again. I don't have any actual 3D prop planes. I have a couple of 3D jets but I use strictly "normal" gain on those. Even with those, 3D gain made them go nuts. I believe that 3D gain, in order for it to work properly, high gain is naturally built into that system, even on the very lowest you can dial in on the pot (even with it to zero, there's still some gain but not enough to cause any ill effects on the plane). That is the best way for a gyro to work when there is low airspeed. It is common knowledge that with "normal" gain, the faster the plane goes, the less gain it can handle. The first axis to start oscillating (and hence, the one that can take the least gain) is the roll axis (ie, AIL). Next comes ELE, which can take a bit more gain. Last is RUD, which can take a lot of gain. However, on something like the A3L, where you've only got one gain pot for "normal" gain, the amount of gain you can set is determined by the AIL axis. The other two will be a bit less. That's just the way this gyro works.
Try it sometime but with the gain pots set on BOTH "normal" and "3D" to about 10:30am on the clock. Have a 3-way switch so that at one end, you've got "normal" gain and at the other end, you've got "3D" gain, the middle position being both "OFF". Take the plane up very high with the gyro OFF, trim it, then try it on "normal" gain. I think you'll find it'll fly really well and stabilized. Then try it on "3D", but WATCH OUT and be prepared to turn it OFF or back to "normal". You may need a change of shorts when you land.

[dsb23]

xviper - I appreciate your input as it sounds like you have tested this out. I am still left wondering just what 3D mode is engineered to do, and why it's ability to function would be dictated by flight speed (especially if one has the ability to dial in gain as desired with a Tx knob switch)? Also when you say "reflex" I assume you mean a bit of up-elevator, yes?

[Elbee]

Glad to have just discovered this forum, ehh354's question was exactly what I was after - I was hoping to be able to use 3D mode to facilitate hand launch of a FreeWing F9F Panther (which apparently can be a squirrely evolution) after switching it on while holding the plane wings level and slightly nose high, but that sounds like a big no-no based on what i read here. However this leaves me wondering: what IS the A3L doing in 3D mode if not maintaining fixed attitude, and why is it only useful for slow 3D flying?? Also while bench testing the setup I notice in 3D mode the controls tend to drift quite quickly - i.e., if I hold the plane level and roll it back and forth, within just a few cycles the left wingtip must be in a considerable down orientation in order for the ailerons to be level with the wing. It does seem to drift in the same direction each time. I have the gyro set up on a 3-position mode switch, with adjustable gain on a knob, and all appear to work as intended except for this apparent drift in 3D mode.

D2, Welcome to Hobby Squawk. Glad to have you onboard, Sir, and Merry Christmas. Best, LB

[xviper]

3D mode should not be used unless you are actually flying a 3D plane at very low (near zero) airspeed. This is most applicable to a jet, which can get up to speed very quickly. Once it gets up to any kind of speed (not very much), it can go really weird and head for dirt. For non-3D flying, it's best to turn the 3D gain to zero and use strictly the "normal" gain pot. I can tell you for a fact that turning 3D ON when there is positive gain on the 3D pot when the plane is flying at speed will cause the thing to go crazy. It's nearly uncontrollable and almost unresponsive to stick input.
To hand launch a jet such as yours, best to use moderate "normal" gain, with a little reflex (3 to 4 degrees) in the elevator mixed to a switch. Once in the air and flying, flip the switch to no reflex, then do the trimming flight. The next launch should be perfect with the same reflex.

[dsb23]

Glad to have just discovered this forum, ehh354's question was exactly what I was after - I was hoping to be able to use 3D mode to facilitate hand launch of a FreeWing F9F Panther (which apparently can be a squirrely evolution) after switching it on while holding the plane wings level and slightly nose high, but that sounds like a big no-no based on what i read here. However this leaves me wondering: what IS the A3L doing in 3D mode if not maintaining fixed attitude, and why is it only useful for slow 3D flying?? Also while bench testing the setup I notice in 3D mode the controls tend to drift quite quickly - i.e., if I hold the plane level and roll it back and forth, within just a few cycles the left wingtip must be in a considerable down orientation in order for the ailerons to be level with the wing. It does seem to drift in the same direction each time. I have the gyro set up on a 3-position mode switch, with adjustable gain on a knob, and all appear to work as intended except for this apparent drift in 3D mode.

[ehh354]

Thank, that's kind of what I figured but thought it was worth a shot. I will most likely set up a 3 position switch with 0,50, and 100 % and set the main gain at about 35-40% for starters. Only have a 6 channel reciever in the test set-up so just using gain and no 2 or 3 position on off switch.

[xviper]

Has anyone tried using an A3L v2 3-D position as a landing and takeoff rate and regular position as a flying rate ? Or is the 3-D position for hovering and extreme aerobatics only ?
I would like to try it out on a jet but want to see if its been done before.

That's not what 3D gain is for. You don't want to use the "3D" gain at all unless you are actually doing 3D type flying (hovering, etc., where airspeed is very slow to non-existent). Turn that gain completely off for normal planes. You can try it and see what I'm talking about. Use the rotary knob for the gain. On one side of 12 O'clock, it'll be normal gain and on the other side, it'll be 3D gain. Better to do it on a 3 position switch (middle position is zero gain, Pos. 0 is normal gain, Pos. 2 is 3D gain). Make sure you are up really high and be prepared to flip the switch quickly when it the plane goes crazy in 3D gain.
For a jet, best to use only normal gain set at approx. 25% to 30% of total gain possible. Always start low. That will still be effective for take off, flying and landing. If you are only worried about maximum stability for taking off and landing, then set normal gain 35% to 45% BUT have it on a switch so it can be turned OFF/ON immediately after take off and just before final approach to touchdown. That high a gain at speed will shake the plane to pieces.
NOTE: The percentages stated above is what you would set the gain pot to on the unit. If you use the rotary knob, remember that that is a percentage of that percentage. IE, if the gain pot is set to 50%, the rotary knob will be 0% to 100% of that. Eg, if the rotary is at 50%, that's 50% of 50% on the pot, or 25% total gain.

[ehh354]

Has anyone tried using an A3L v2 3-D position as a landing and takeoff rate and regular position as a flying rate ? Or is the 3-D position for hovering and extreme aerobatics only ?
I would like to try it out on a jet but want to see if its been done before.

[Mizer67]

What settings are being influenced in the gyro? What is not working as they should? I don't have an F-22 but if it's like most of today's Freewing planes, there is a blue control box that links many of the servos into a common circuit board. When you introduce a gyro, I think it's wise the remove the gyro controlled surfaces from the blue box. IE, ailerons, elevator, rudder. These should by-pass the blue box and be hooked directly to the gyro, which is inline with the RX. Generally, flaps are independent of the other control surfaces, however, when everything goes through these blue boxes, there are common grounds and common positives. I've always worried about current leaching from on circuit to another. Then you've got the signal paths, which could also be affected by leaching.
Have you removed the critical control surfaces from the blue box when introducing a gyro?

No - still using the blue box. I only have 6 channels to work with and did not take out the various multi-connectors. The MCB is likely the issue, it's the only thing that makes sense.

I gave up with the A3L-V2's, tried a Freewing gyro which also had issues (extremely poor resolution - i.e. servos acted in a "step" function) but would retain settings, then finally an A3 Super which, thankfully, works as designed.

Oh and I forgot to mention an integrated gyro in the Admiral receiver also. That receiver cut out on my twice in the first three flights. MRC said it tested fine on the bench (range tested fine with my radio also pre-maiden). I suspect the gyro overloaded the BEC and browned-out the receiver, but can't confirm it.

Suffice to say I'm not having good luck with gyros and the F-22. No troubles with my other FW jets (or FMS jets) that don't use the "blue box" though.

[xviper]

What settings are being influenced in the gyro? What is not working as they should? I don't have an F-22 but if it's like most of today's Freewing planes, there is a blue control box that links many of the servos into a common circuit board. When you introduce a gyro, I think it's wise the remove the gyro controlled surfaces from the blue box. IE, ailerons, elevator, rudder. These should by-pass the blue box and be hooked directly to the gyro, which is inline with the RX. Generally, flaps are independent of the other control surfaces, however, when everything goes through these blue boxes, there are common grounds and common positives. I've always worried about current leaching from on circuit to another. Then you've got the signal paths, which could also be affected by leaching.
Have you removed the critical control surfaces from the blue box when introducing a gyro?

[Mizer67]

Well, spoke too soon. Still losing any retained settings on the gyro.

Question for anyone using one - I have the F-22 setup with flaps in the transmitter. Does anyone using this gyro with the F-22 and Spektrum have it set up differently?

Maybe something is at play with the transmitter vs. the gyro? The gyro works in another, simpler plane, so it's not the hardware - has something to do with the F-22 or the transmitter settings.

I tried e-mailing the mfg. with no response. I can't find anything like this on the internet.

[Mizer67]

Y-ed it into the flaps port. Tested and functioning.

Didn't want to Y into anything critical, so power, throttle and most control surfaces were out. That left me gear and flaps. Figured I could do without flaps, but lose the gear I'd be scraping foam.

[xviper]

Then "Y" it to any port, even the bind port. Make sure polarity is correct.

[Mizer67]

Plug the capacitor into the bind port.

Unfortunately I cannot.

The F-22 has the separate BEC, which plugs into the only open spot on the six channel receiver, the bind port. The throttle goes into slot 1, then all the control surfaces, gear and flaps take up the rest.

I've rarely wanted for more than six channels, but in this case, I do.

[xviper]

Plug the capacitor into the bind port.