FMS 80MM Dassault Rafale

[radfordc]

I ran into the same issue with my Eflite Su-30. The Eflite motors it came with were less powerful than the FMS motors in the FMS Su-27 which is the same plane, unavailable in the US due to a "marketing" agreement with FMS. In that instance I was able to purchase the more powerful FMS motors from RC Castle in Hong Kong as well, which improved the performance of my Su-30 noticeably.

It is just astounding the difference the FMS fans make in the Su-30. Totally transforms the plane from a overweight pig into a screaming beast. I fly with two 4000 packs instead of one 6000 giving 4:30 min flights. Best jet I've ever flown bar none...including the Mig-29.

[jetdoc]

I bought mine direct from Horizon and it had the FMS 3280-2100kV inrunner installed. It was PNP and did not have a "proprietary (overpriced) AS3X receiver" in it. The description states CLEARLY that it has an EC5 connector.

https://www.horizonhobby.com/product/rafale-80mm-edf-jet-pnp-973-mm/FMM131P.html

Sorry, but the description of the one purchased for me clearly stated that it had an XT90 connector, Reflex V2 and the FMS 3280-2100kV inrunner installed. The connector isn't a big deal. Five minutes ti fix that. Also, I didn't imply that the HH version that I'm convinced I received had the "proprietary (overpriced) AS3X receiver" in it either. Clearly, it was set up to receive one by the end user though. Didn't mean to offend any HH employees or stockholders.

[jetdoc]

It is just astounding the difference the FMS fans make in the Su-30. Totally transforms the plane from a overweight pig into a screaming beast. I fly with two 4000 packs instead of one 6000 giving 4:30 min flights. Best jet I've ever flown bar none...including the Mig-29.

Agreed! The difference in performance is amazing! I fly from grass and with the Eflite motors the Su-30 was a pig. The FMS motors made it a joy to fly. As I stated before regarding the Rafale, the original Eflite motors in the Sukhoi had a lower kV rating than their FMS counterparts. In the Rafale it was 2000kV vs 2100kV.

[jetdoc]

Yeah, I think he is unfairly targeting HH for issues they are not responsible for. He bought a plane from a gray market vendor and got burned. No surprise. Lucky he got it through Amazon though.

I'm not blaming HH but don't fool yourself. FMS makes almost all of HH's new releases these days and they make the ones HH sells in the US to HH specs. HH also controls, through marketing agreements what FMS is allowed to sell in the US. If that weren't so we would have had a choice between the sky pig Eflite Su-30 or the higher-performing FMS Su-27. Same plane, different paint and motors. Not that I blame them but because of sales volume HH can pretty much dictate specs and terms a la Walmart. Ever purchased a small kitchen appliance or DVD player from Walmart? Same thing. Less competition in the market has always resulted in inferior quality and fewer choices. BTW, Amazon was never involved in the negotiations. By and large FMS makes two different types of kits, those intended for sale through HH and those intended for other sellers and the rest of the world.
On a lighter note, I'm really looking forward to flying my new correctly powered FMS 80mm Rafale! Hopefully I can get started on it tonight. No harm, no foul.

[kallend]

I'm not blaming HH but don't fool yourself. . . . ..

So why did you write:

"What concerns me in all of this is that it appears as if Horizon is selling an inferior product at premium prices.
. . .

These instances have further distanced me from any further business with Horizon in the future. "Caveat Emptor"! Buyer beware!"

It sure seems like you're blaming Horizon when your problems have come from a 3rd party supplier.

[xviper]

I don't think FairRC has anything to do with Horizon. They sell either directly or through Amazon.com and that in itself tells me that Horizon is not involved. It's no different than some of the smaller sellers in China selling stuff through AliExpress or Banggood or like many small vendors peddling their wares under the Amazon umbrella. FairRC doesn't reveal where they are based but I'll bet they get their FMS stuff directly from China, bypassing Horizon altogether. So putting any blame on Horizon for this is unjustified. I'm not a Horizon fanboi, far from it. Lately, the attitude and conduct of a Horizon rep on the other forum has cast a very negative light upon Horizon in general, but I still think it's unfair to link Horizon with this latest transaction. We're likely dealing with a bootleg copy of the Rafale.

[Evan D]

You are not telling me anything I don't know. And to be clear I am anything but a HH fan boy.

You bought a plane that, as you say, is sold in the US through a single distributor but you bought it gray market and you didn't get what you expected. I assume the reason you didn't get it from HH was to get a "better deal". You learned a lesson I hope. That's not to say getting a plane off shore isn't always an issue, but you have to be a little more diligent when you go that way.

I'm not blaming HH but don't fool yourself. FMS makes almost all of HH's new releases these days and they make the ones HH sells in the US to HH specs. HH also controls, through marketing agreements what FMS is allowed to sell in the US. If that weren't so we would have had a choice between the sky pig Eflite Su-30 or the higher-performing FMS Su-27. Same plane, different paint and motors. Not that I blame them but because of sales volume HH can pretty much dictate specs and terms a la Walmart. Ever purchased a small kitchen appliance or DVD player from Walmart? Same thing. Less competition in the market has always resulted in inferior quality and fewer choices. BTW, Amazon was never involved in the negotiations. By and large FMS makes two different types of kits, those intended for sale through HH and those intended for other sellers and the rest of the world.
On a lighter note, I'm really looking forward to flying my new correctly powered FMS 80mm Rafale! Hopefully I can get started on it tonight. No harm, no foul.

[jetdoc]

Sorry I brought it up! At no time did I directly blame HH for this issue. Go back and read it again. I simply expressed concern based not only on this but previous issues as well. My sincere apologies to all you HH acolytes out there. Feel free to proceed into the realm of Smart, Safe, AS3X and all their other proprietary systems with all speed! Of course I'm being sarcastic, but I had no idea I'd upset do many people by simply questioning the great and powerful OZ (HH)! Pay no attention to this man behind the curtain. Drink your KoolAid and spend your money. Just don't question anything. It's been fun but I have a Rafale calling me from the shop. Lighten up people!🤣 It's a hobby.

[Evan D]

Not sure if anyone is upset… I’m not…

[xviper]

Me neither. I really don't care about HH at all and I doubt there are that many HH fanbois here anyway. Now, on the "other" forum, that's a whole different story. Fanbois over there walk all over each other's faces just to raise the HH flag.

[kallend]

Sorry I brought it up! At no time did I directly blame HH for this issue. Go back and read it again. I simply expressed concern based not only on this but previous issues as well. My sincere apologies to all you HH acolytes out there. Feel free to proceed into the realm of Smart, Safe, AS3X and all their other proprietary systems with all speed! Of course I'm being sarcastic, but I had no idea I'd upset do many people by simply questioning the great and powerful OZ (HH)! Pay no attention to this man behind the curtain. Drink your KoolAid and spend your money. Just don't question anything. It's been fun but I have a Rafale calling me from the shop. Lighten up people!🤣 It's a hobby.

Even now you can't refrain from taking a swipe at HH even after admitting that your problems were not, in fact, caused by them.

I guess you just can't help yourself.

[kallend]

Me neither. I really don't care about HH at all and I doubt there are that many HH fanbois here anyway. Now, on the "other" forum, that's a whole different story. Fanbois over there walk all over each other's faces just to raise the HH flag.

Every brand has its fanbois. Read some of the initial "reviews" of the FW MiG29.

[jetdoc]

Obviously the word sarcasm means little in this polarized world of ours. I guess I should have said IMHO before speaking out. Once again I digress. I'm only speaking from personal experience. Yours may be different. My original statement simply stated a question of why a model was so obviously brand-equipped in favor of HH products and extended an "atta-boy" to another company who came through to make what I actually received match the advertised model on Amazon. Did we miss that? I intended a positive message but it was immediately twisted into something else. Yes, I hold HH to task for quality and value when I spend $500 for a model (Su-30) that is clearly inferior to its manufacturer's equal (FMS Su-27) and its poor performance and lack of availability due to HH marketing forces me to spend another $150 to $200 to turn it into an equal performer. But alas, this is an FMS Rafale thread. I'll hold my opinion on the Rafale until I've seen how it performs for me, at which time it will be just that, my opinion. My expectations are much better now however since it will have the correct FMS motor and Reflex V2 that I paid for in the first place. BTW, Fair RC told me to keep the Eflite 3270-2000kV it came with. Seems they have no use for it either......... Y'all have a nice evening!

[AirHead]

Me neither. I really don't care about HH at all and I doubt there are that many HH fanbois here anyway. Now, on the "other" forum, that's a whole different story. Fanbois over there walk all over each other's faces just to raise the HH flag.

Hey dude! I'm not a big fan of Helly Hansen either. I didn't know they make RC planes! I thought they only made helicopters and clothing. BTW: Does "fanbois" mean in French: "Fans made of wood?"...Only the RC Sages would know .....

[xviper]

BTW: Does "fanbois" mean in French: "Fans made of wood?"

I've never heard of that definition. I first heard of this term when I was in the sporty import car scene back around the turn of the century. We used to refer to guys who "riced up" their little imports with fart can exhausts and lowered so close to the ground, they made sparks wherever they went. They wore their pants down 1/2 way past their underwear waste band and their baseball caps backwards. Their kinds of cars were THE only cars that mattered. It was an off-shoot of "groupies". For some reason, it was spelled "fanbois" instead of "fanboys". I think it started out predominantly targeting the young Vietnamese car crowd. (The other language of Viet Nam was/is French.) The only thing that was apparent was that the term was somewhat derogatory because they followed a certain "thing" or "state of being" without reason or logic - like lemmings over a cliff.

[Icarus the 2nd]

I'm at 90 flights so far with my FMS Rafale, this is my favorite EDF jet since I upgraded to a 8S Wemotec unit.

Here's a compilation vid showing some parts of my recordings, including some footage that I didn't post before.

Enjoy!

[Madness]

Hi all! How much flight time are you guys getting on average on this plane? I have researched the internet but I get a lot of different responses unlike other models which the consensus leans into the 3 to 3.5 minutes average (depending on fan size and throttle management). I have been told that this plane eats up batteries, is that true? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

[Dwalkerp47]

Hi all! How much flight time are you guys getting on average on this plane? I have researched the internet but I get a lot of different responses unlike other models which the consensus leans into the 3 to 3.5 minutes average (depending on fan size and throttle management). I have been told that this plane eats up batteries, is that true? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

My timer is set at 3 minutes, but with taxi time, I usually end up with about 3:45 seconds with a battery voltage of around 3.7 to 3.75 per cell. I'm using 4400 6S Roaring Top batteries with a 70C rating in the Rafale. That battery is perfect for that Jet.

[Cobbster]

I got a couple of flights on the Rafe today,Its gotten to be my favorite jet from a pretty great stable!Eflite'sf4 phantom.70mm f16 and A 10,Arrows Mig 29. Excellent jets one and all.The Rafes just so cool in the air

[kallend]

Hi all! How much flight time are you guys getting on average on this plane? I have researched the internet but I get a lot of different responses unlike other models which the consensus leans into the 3 to 3.5 minutes average (depending on fan size and throttle management). I have been told that this plane eats up batteries, is that true? Thanks in advance for the feedback.

Sorry for the late response - I was in Antarctica!

If you stay with the stock nozzles, which are way oversize (at 58mm diameter each, which turns out to be 130% FSA), you will need to fly at high throttle to get decent performance and that WILL eat up the battery.

Replace with a properly sized nozzle and everything is improved. There are several sources for nozzles - mine (100% FSA) are at https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4827133