Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Gringotuerto]

... with enough altitude for an OMG event where I went the wrong way on the rudder ...

A guy at the field suggested remembering this rule for entering a knife edge: if you see the canopy, push the stick toward the tail; if you see the wheels, push the stick toward the nose. Works for either direction of travel. I don't know if you find these kind of mental tricks helpful, but I do. Some people find it easier to mentally rotate the plane to the Tx orientation.

[Hugh Wiedman]

OK, I took the A-10 out last weekend. It was great as always! But I still didn't nail the knife edge very well. For one thing, those rudders are large, and it is very sensitive. I guess that is good, but it also means I can't just hold the stick all the way to one side like I do with the Avanti. Also I found it definitely pulled towards the canopy - as you say, needs some down elevator to track straight. Anyway, I'll get it eventually. I'm just happy every time I take it to the field and it comes home in the same condition, lol.

Just keep at it, it will come as you get more confidence. Agreed that with the Avanti, it requires almost full rudder (have my rudder rates on high for that) but will also climb a bit with full rudder (so either reduce the power slightly or use less rudder). I get a lot of practice with knife edge on my fleet of Extreme Flight planes and it has taken a lot of practice but works well at 60% throttle and maybe about 40% rudder deflection (but then the amount of deflection on those aircraft in high rates is almost 75 degrees, so for knife edge reduce it to mid rates). You may want to try the knife edge on the A-10 with mid or low rates. I use mid rates which are 1/2 way between book rates and use about 80% deflection at 75% throttle. Doesn't always work perfectly but just need to keep at it with enough altitude for an OMG event where I went the wrong way on the rudder (even though I have to force myself to think ahead which direction I am rolling and which direction the rudder needs to go - I'm definitely not intuitive like many out there, I seem to need a que card in my face reminding me which way to go first and sometimes still go in the wrong direction depending if I'm going downwind or upwind to keep the top facing me).

[themudduck]

Hey what Colt just said, move the CG back and land on the mains every time, no problem with the bucking bronco. Bouncing on the nose gear is a common problem in a nose-heavy setup.

[Gringotuerto]

For some lucky reason, I've found that knife edge with the A-10 is surprisingly easy, requiring almost minimal down elevator to keep it tracking straight. ...

OK, I took the A-10 out last weekend. It was great as always! But I still didn't nail the knife edge very well. For one thing, those rudders are large, and it is very sensitive. I guess that is good, but it also means I can't just hold the stick all the way to one side like I do with the Avanti. Also I found it definitely pulled towards the canopy - as you say, needs some down elevator to track straight. Anyway, I'll get it eventually. I'm just happy every time I take it to the field and it comes home in the same condition, lol.

[ColtPilot]

Got another 7 flights in today on the A-10 along with 4 on one of my F-4's. Every time I fly the A-10, it just seems to fly better each time, which at this point is almost impossible to get better unless I let a decent pilot take her up for me! Would have got more but these 2 burned through my 18 RT 6250's and I refuse to waste time at the field charging, and I'm not going to buy any more batteries, 140 are enough (man, just think how many more actual planes I could of had instead).

Anyway, interesting observation here: I fly off grass so upgraded the nose to the trailing link. We had 14-18 mph winds directly down the runway, but neither of them seemed to give a hoot about gusty winds (thankfully not a crosswind though). With jets, I always start out the take-off run with full elevator to relieve pressure on the nose gear which helps it get up to speed quicker on grass, then slowly release elevator just before lift off leaving just enough up to lift off smoothly. Since we had a strong headwind, just to see what happened, I started a take-off run with NO up elevator. The result was that it drove the nose pressure down so much that about 1/2 way down the run, the trailing link was fully depressed. Started over with my normal take-off procedure and that ended that experiment!. The twin "exhaust " thrust is directly over the elevator surface (and if you test it out on the bench you can see and hear just how much thrust the elevators directly influence), that if you use full or even 1/2-3/4 up elevator on take off, it REALLY forces downward pressure on the tail, thus keeping the nose "light as a feather". Probably not needed as much on asphalt, but on grass, wow, what a difference.

The other thing I noticed was that for landing, downwind around 28-32% throttle, final glide after lining up runway reduced to 15% and then 8%, and about 4 feet off the runway throttle to 0 and then raise the nose before touchdown gets just a perfect somewhat high alpha landing with 0 bounce (actually have never experienced the bucking bronco effect yet ) resulting in a 10-15 foot roll out, at least on grass. Never thought I'd ever chop the throttle on a jet, but this is not your "grandmothers" EDF. Noticed GliderGuy on a post in the Mig 29 thread with almost the exact throttle positions for landing, so these both seem to be a little different than some of the others being a bit larger and able to glide easier without dropping like the proverbial rock.

The only way to get bucking bronco is landing on the nose gear first. One of the reasons I went to oleo struts on the mains. No bronco effect at all.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Yes it is a great flier, but I still don't take it out nearly as much as the Avanti just because the Avanti is so easy to put in the truck. But I'm planning to take the A-10 out this weekend. Have you tried knife-edge with the A-10? I do that with the Avanti all the time, but if I recall correctly I had trouble getting this stable with the A-10 (although I only tried a couple times).

For some lucky reason, I've found that knife edge with the A-10 is surprisingly easy, requiring almost minimal down elevator to keep it tracking straight. I assume the twin large vertical stabilizers are part of this equation. I'm also flying at a CG of about 92mm instead of the book 78mm which probably also contribute to the lack of need of any substantial elevator mix (which I'm not sophisticated enough to figure out mixes with so all my aircraft that I do a knife edge with never have compensations in). The A-10 will also climb for me if needed during knife edge with only 80% throttle, but then I'm also using an extra 15% in high rates on rudder travel for knife edge. And I'm no "super experienced pilot", probably just relatively average like most of us, so I'm very impressed with the A-10's capabilities. I do fly knife edge extensively with my fleet of 60" Extreme Flight aircraft, and my Bi-Planes, but with those if you get a good CG point, all you have to do is "think" about doing a knife edge and it's there, with no mixing needed and they fly around the field in figure 8's or any pattern while in it.

And I completely agree with you regarding the Avanti, it seems to almost prefer knife edge flight over the ho hum standard level flight. Still working on doing a flat figure 8 in knife edge with the Avanti but think I'll finish it soon if my nerves hold up and I have enough spare under shorts. Not sure I'll even attempt that with the A-10.

[Gringotuerto]

Got another 7 flights in today on the A-10...

Yes it is a great flier, but I still don't take it out nearly as much as the Avanti just because the Avanti is so easy to put in the truck. But I'm planning to take the A-10 out this weekend. Have you tried knife-edge with the A-10? I do that with the Avanti all the time, but if I recall correctly I had trouble getting this stable with the A-10 (although I only tried a couple times).

[Hugh Wiedman]

Got another 7 flights in today on the A-10 along with 4 on one of my F-4's. Every time I fly the A-10, it just seems to fly better each time, which at this point is almost impossible to get better unless I let a decent pilot take her up for me! Would have got more but these 2 burned through my 18 RT 6250's and I refuse to waste time at the field charging, and I'm not going to buy any more batteries, 140 are enough (man, just think how many more actual planes I could of had instead).

Anyway, interesting observation here: I fly off grass so upgraded the nose to the trailing link. We had 14-18 mph winds directly down the runway, but neither of them seemed to give a hoot about gusty winds (thankfully not a crosswind though). With jets, I always start out the take-off run with full elevator to relieve pressure on the nose gear which helps it get up to speed quicker on grass, then slowly release elevator just before lift off leaving just enough up to lift off smoothly. Since we had a strong headwind, just to see what happened, I started a take-off run with NO up elevator. The result was that it drove the nose pressure down so much that about 1/2 way down the run, the trailing link was fully depressed. Started over with my normal take-off procedure and that ended that experiment!. The twin "exhaust " thrust is directly over the elevator surface (and if you test it out on the bench you can see and hear just how much thrust the elevators directly influence), that if you use full or even 1/2-3/4 up elevator on take off, it REALLY forces downward pressure on the tail, thus keeping the nose "light as a feather". Probably not needed as much on asphalt, but on grass, wow, what a difference.

The other thing I noticed was that for landing, downwind around 28-32% throttle, final glide after lining up runway reduced to 15% and then 8%, and about 4 feet off the runway throttle to 0 and then raise the nose before touchdown gets just a perfect somewhat high alpha landing with 0 bounce (actually have never experienced the bucking bronco effect yet ) resulting in a 10-15 foot roll out, at least on grass. Never thought I'd ever chop the throttle on a jet, but this is not your "grandmothers" EDF. Noticed GliderGuy on a post in the Mig 29 thread with almost the exact throttle positions for landing, so these both seem to be a little different than some of the others being a bit larger and able to glide easier without dropping like the proverbial rock.

[Aros]

Hey, what's 3000 miles or so among RC buddies? I'll be there shortly, leave on light on!

Consider it done!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Fabulous work Hugh Wiedman ! Wish we lived close, we could have some pretty cool tandems!

Hey, what's 3000 miles or so among RC buddies? I'll be there shortly, leave on light on!

[Dirty Dee]

Hugh Wiedman great work!

[themudduck]

That is really spectacular work. I love those spirals on the fan cones.

[Aros]

Fabulous work Hugh Wiedman ! Wish we lived close, we could have some pretty cool tandems!

[Hugh Wiedman]

[James]

This thread has been a little "quiet" lately with everyone exploding the MIG thread , but after almost a month after I finished the Arctic build, I finally finished (although still need to apply the clear gloss spar urethane to it) the Dirty Dee cockpit. Good thing I bought a second cockpit to work on so I was able to maiden the A-10 and get about 30 flights on it while I "occasionally" worked on the cockpit. Chris's design is absolutely fabulous and everything fits "like a glove" once you get the foam cut out correctly. This wasn't an easy rebuild (especially cutting out the correct amount of foam), but then again nothing is easy for me, and I want to thank Chris for his incredible design and others who helped me out immensely with the parts. I used a JH Hobby 1/10 scale full body pilot, same as what I put in the F-18 Canadian and he fit very nicely. The finished cockpit weighed in at 274 g, which is 170 g more than the plain stock cockpit. In order to keep my CG at 92 mm (which I felt made it perform the best for me), I had to move the 2 RT 6250 batteries back another 2 1/2 inches and move the battery straps and extend the floor under the forward battery. I had already removed the circuit board and velcro-ed it to the back port fuselage wall, but at this point, I can't get the CG any further back without going to lighter batteries, which ain't going to happen since I love the 5+ minutes of flight time coming in with 35% or more left in the tank. I know I'm repeating myself, but I love everything about this jet, which I would have never guessed even at the point that I finally purchased one! I initially thought that this might end up as a "hangar queen" but it just refuses to be left at home when I'm heading to the field. It easily replaced the Avanti as my first EDF flight of the day and the poor little Avanti hasn't been out in months.

Looks great Hugh! Any pics of the entire plane finished?

[Hugh Wiedman]

This thread has been a little "quiet" lately with everyone exploding the MIG thread , but after almost a month after I finished the Arctic build, I finally finished (although still need to apply the clear gloss spar urethane to it) the Dirty Dee cockpit. Good thing I bought a second cockpit to work on so I was able to maiden the A-10 and get about 30 flights on it while I "occasionally" worked on the cockpit. Chris's design is absolutely fabulous and everything fits "like a glove" once you get the foam cut out correctly. This wasn't an easy rebuild (especially cutting out the correct amount of foam), but then again nothing is easy for me, and I want to thank Chris for his incredible design and others who helped me out immensely with the parts. I used a JH Hobby 1/10 scale full body pilot, same as what I put in the F-18 Canadian and he fit very nicely. The finished cockpit weighed in at 274 g, which is 170 g more than the plain stock cockpit. In order to keep my CG at 92 mm (which I felt made it perform the best for me), I had to move the 2 RT 6250 batteries back another 2 1/2 inches and move the battery straps and extend the floor under the forward battery. I had already removed the circuit board and velcro-ed it to the back port fuselage wall, but at this point, I can't get the CG any further back without going to lighter batteries, which ain't going to happen since I love the 5+ minutes of flight time coming in with 35% or more left in the tank. I know I'm repeating myself, but I love everything about this jet, which I would have never guessed even at the point that I finally purchased one! I initially thought that this might end up as a "hangar queen" but it just refuses to be left at home when I'm heading to the field. It easily replaced the Avanti as my first EDF flight of the day and the poor little Avanti hasn't been out in months.

[ColtPilot]

About to start assembly of mine. I had read about strengthening/stiffening up the front of the fuselage with carbon fiber rods/tubes, one on each side. Is this a good idea ?
Bob

Yes, the addition will be beneficial. After 4 years I still need to do mine.

[Balsa Bob]

About to start assembly of mine. I had read about strengthening/stiffening up the front of the fuselage with carbon fiber rods/tubes, one on each side. Is this a good idea ?
Bob

[ColtPilot]

I guess this picture from motion there must be something non standard about it then?

Those were the first ones to come out. Many folks had the input saying what gives and was fixed. Also the penny pod is no longer used by the A-10's. As you can tell by my photo with the real deal it is no longer there. That's how it became the A-10C.

[Hiddenhanger63]

Thankfully with the open TX system your nearly guaranteed that someone has “been there and done it” 30 seconds google search comes up with all the settings and mixing needed with variable timers etc.