Official Freewing Twin 80mm/90mm A-10 Thunderbolt II Thread

[Look ma, no trim]

This is what Alpha Skyped me the other day i.e. CG:

The A-10's CG is 78mm, measured back from the leading edge of the wing root. For convenience's sake, this CG is measured with the aircraft upright, with the landing gear down (because it's too difficult to pick up the plane and measure it inverted gear up). Whether the aircraft is fully loaded or empty, the CG doesn't shift more than 1-2mm forward, which is within the margin of error for the plane (depending on how much glue the customer uses to affix the rear fuselage, which is the only glue joint). We can state a range of 75mm-83mm, if people want a range. Down elevator is mixed with flaps. 2mm down for first position, and 3mm for second position.

By "down elevator", you mean bring actual control surface down, to bring nose down, not down stick elevator that would bring the nose up..Confused as take off flaps should raise plane, wouldnt down elevator bring planes nose back down?

[Look ma, no trim]

I did. I assigned to switch D. Once assigned I cant get flaps to react by switch D so i can set pos 1,2 for mid amd and full flaps.. I can adjust them, exit and still not be able to use switch D.. However, on the inside of the mix board on the wing, it has flaps to 6 and gear to 5, as i just saw while solving the throw rod issue. So I'm sure that's where that issue lies.

The good: So I, for whatever reason (logic i think) assumed the inner flap was the flap closest to fuse. Would you belie I was wrong? All i could do was LOL when i realized that the inner flap was in the middle whioe hikding wing SEPERATE from fuse.. WHO KNEW🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣. Needless to say, that issue is sorted, i believe ill habe the switch issue sorted..


Now I have a rudder ran directly to the rx, and the nose wheel steering and gear running thru mixer board and now have no steering.. I'll just run rudder thru mixer board and I believe that will resolve that problem..

I really appreciate the help Gringo and Viper! Solid fellas

So to update, I have everything in proper order, all is working. My only gripe is I have 1 aileron that is going dead at connection, with a little wiggle, I get it back live and it stays live..I'm diverting Ele & Ail directly to rx, so where the connection gets dodgy is at the wing..So I guess my question is, HOW DO YOU ALL FEEL ABOUT THE DEPENDABILITY OF THE MIXING BOARD?

Thanks again fellas for all the help

[Look ma, no trim]

OK I also have an older DX8 - as xviper said, you have to select "flaps" in the initial setup (when it is asking "wing type" questions). Did you select 1-ail / 1-flap as the wing type?

I did. I assigned to switch D. Once assigned I cant get flaps to react by switch D so i can set pos 1,2 for mid amd and full flaps.. I can adjust them, exit and still not be able to use switch D.. However, on the inside of the mix board on the wing, it has flaps to 6 and gear to 5, as i just saw while solving the throw rod issue. So I'm sure that's where that issue lies.

The good: So I, for whatever reason (logic i think) assumed the inner flap was the flap closest to fuse. Would you belie I was wrong? All i could do was LOL when i realized that the inner flap was in the middle whioe hikding wing SEPERATE from fuse.. WHO KNEW🤷🏾♂️🤣🤣. Needless to say, that issue is sorted, i believe ill habe the switch issue sorted..


Now I have a rudder ran directly to the rx, and the nose wheel steering and gear running thru mixer board and now have no steering.. I'll just run rudder thru mixer board and I bekiev that will resolve that problem..

I really appreciate the help Gringo and Viper! Solid fellas

[Gringotuerto]

So i have a DX8 G2.. Flaps are set uo amd programmed in tx, however, even when assigned, im not able to activate them by switch..

OK I also have an older DX8 - as xviper said, you have to select "flaps" in the initial setup (when it is asking "wing type" questions). Did you select 1-ail / 1-flap as the wing type?

[xviper]

Even if i move the servo arm to the neutral "no flap" position and set it up like that, the arm isn't long enough to provide a flush fit on the trailing edge.. The only longer throw rod goes to the outside flap.. Inner flap gets same length as aileron..Im assuming inner flap is the flap closest to fuse 🤷🏾♂️... Once flaps are set up and assigned a switch , i cant activate them with switch D, i can only move them in the flap menu by adjustment? Smh not sure whats happening

You should be able to assign the switch (D in this case) in the flap menu at the bottom. Make sure you haven't got it INH.
As for the servo arm for the flaps, it should NOT start out in a "neutral" (or 90 degree) position. It needs to be near its starting point, where the distance from the servo arm hole to the flap control horn hole is much shorter. You must set that starting point either via servo subtrim (or % in the flap menu page for position "0") or manually re-positioning the arm on the servo driving cog (which you shouldn't have to do unless you've already moved it). THEN attach the rod. The arm should be in its "neutral" position (or near 90 degree position) at 1/2 flaps (ie, take off flaps), then near the other end of the travel for full flaps. You have 3 flap positions on the switch. "0" should be neutral or no flaps and this is achieved by dialing the % in the flap menu (or subtrim in the servo menu). Then in switch position "1" (1/2 flaps), dial in whatever % is takes to get you your needed deflection. Same goes for position "2" (full flaps). Leave ELE compensation for later.

[Look ma, no trim]

1. With Spektrum, you must in the system setup, select "aircraft" (or wing) type as 1 AIL, 1 flap. This opens up the flap menu where you can properly select the switch and dial in your deflection, elevator compensation and deployment time.
2. When setting up the flaps, using servo sub-trim and/or manually placing the servo arm at the desired "starting point" for flap deployment, will better even them out. You know which way the servo arm moves to deploy flaps. When at level (or no) flaps, the servo arm should be at their starting position. You need to somehow put them there to begin with. A servo tester will come in handy to begin the process.
3. If you do #2, the rods should be of adequate length. Also, you need to measure all of them before putting them on. IE, it's possible that you used rods for one control surface that was meant for another.

Even if i move the servo arm to the neutral "no flap" position and set it up like that, the arm isn't long enough to provide a flush fit on the trailing edge.. The only longer throw rod goes to the outside flap.. Inner flap gets same length as aileron..Im assuming inner flap is the flap closest to fuse 🤷🏾♂️... Once flaps are set up and assigned a switch , i cant activate them with switch D, i can only move them in the flap menu by adjustment? Smh not sure whats happening

[Look ma, no trim]

1. I'm not sure what you mean...what Tx do you have? When you say "I can adjust the flap value" how are you able to adjust it? Anyway, since you mention switch D and this is a common switch for flaps on a DX18, I might guess you have Spektrum DX18 or similar. I have a DX18, and on that the switch is controlled directly from the "Flap System" menu, it is the next setting below the three positions, can select this and cycle through various switch assignments.

2. I think these should all be ganged together, receiving the same signal. And all are the same direction servo. Are you sure you didn't remove one of these from the control board? I think if they are all plugged into the control board, the signal wires are shorted together and therefore all get the same signal.

3. Two solutions I can think of :
(a) when you say "max adjustment" do you mean 100%? most radios have a separate travel adjustment where you can get >100%, which basically gives you more than 1ms-2ms range. For example my receiver seems to be able to output pulses from <700us to >2.4ms.
(b) otherwise you have to unscrew the ball link a bit to lengthen the rod. I often have to do this two or three turns on a new plane, they don't come pre-adjusted. I always get a bit nervous if the link is unscrewed so far that it becomes relatively easy to turn. To me that means it is a bit loose. In those cases I might apply a bit of glue after I'm sure I have the right position.

So i have a DX8 G2.. Flaps are set uo amd programmed in tx, however, even when assigned, im not able to activate them by switch..

Ball links are max adjusted on inner flap.. Adjusted with servo in non deployed position, still coming up short.. Correct length, as the onky other "longer rod" goes to outside flap.. Inner flap gets same rod as aileron.. Give ne a few I'll take some pics

[xviper]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

1. With Spektrum, you must in the system setup, select "aircraft" (or wing) type as 1 AIL, 1 flap. This opens up the flap menu where you can properly select the switch and dial in your deflection, elevator compensation and deployment time.
2. When setting up the flaps, using servo sub-trim and/or manually placing the servo arm at the desired "starting point" for flap deployment, will better even them out. You know which way the servo arm moves to deploy flaps. When at level (or no) flaps, the servo arm should be at their starting position. You need to somehow put them there to begin with. A servo tester will come in handy to begin the process.
3. If you do #2, the rods should be of adequate length. Also, you need to measure all of them before putting them on. IE, it's possible that you used rods for one control surface that was meant for another.

[Gringotuerto]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

1. I'm not sure what you mean...what Tx do you have? When you say "I can adjust the flap value" how are you able to adjust it? Anyway, since you mention switch D and this is a common switch for flaps on a DX18, I might guess you have Spektrum DX18 or similar. I have a DX18, and on that the switch is controlled directly from the "Flap System" menu, it is the next setting below the three positions, can select this and cycle through various switch assignments.

2. I think these should all be ganged together, receiving the same signal. And all are the same direction servo. Are you sure you didn't remove one of these from the control board? I think if they are all plugged into the control board, the signal wires are shorted together and therefore all get the same signal.

3. Two solutions I can think of :
(a) when you say "max adjustment" do you mean 100%? most radios have a separate travel adjustment where you can get >100%, which basically gives you more than 1ms-2ms range. For example my receiver seems to be able to output pulses from <700us to >2.4ms.
(b) otherwise you have to unscrew the ball link a bit to lengthen the rod. I often have to do this two or three turns on a new plane, they don't come pre-adjusted. I always get a bit nervous if the link is unscrewed so far that it becomes relatively easy to turn. To me that means it is a bit loose. In those cases I might apply a bit of glue after I'm sure I have the right position.

[Waconut]

If I remember correctly I mixed up control rods while initially setting up the wing controls. Double check you have the correct rods in place.

I wish I could help you with the flap deployment issue but it is hard to troubleshoot a radio setup issue via the web.

[Look ma, no trim]

Ok, so i have everything wired, calibrated etc.. I have my flaps and gear going thru mixing board.. Everything else thru rx..

The 3 issues im having is
1) i cant activate the flaps via switch, i can adjust flap value and see movement, but not when I activate flaps via switch D,

2) with regard to inside flaps, at power up they deployed to full throw in down position, while outside flaps are in neutral position.?

3) And Finally the control rod for inside flap appears to not be long enough as the control surface will not line up w/trailing edge.. At max adjustment it is still deflecting..

I really appreciate the hand/help fellas!

[xviper]

So now I'm curious, If I'm bypassing the control box for the throttle, and go directly to rx, how do i tie in the control box??

Didn't realize you were going through the board with the throttle leads. Since the throttles don't need the ribbon cables as the motors are in the fuse, the board is not used. Not sure what you mean by "tie in the control box"? Do you mean how do you power it? The external BEC plugs into the RX and the RX then shoves power to the board through the other leads going out of it to the board. Some people even bypass the board for the ailerons but that requires extensions from the wings. The elevator and rudder go through the fuse and don't have to go through the board either.

[Look ma, no trim]

I'm talking about the product page at MotionRC. In the support section, you will find the manual for the ESCs in this plane. Here, I've found it for you.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1052/4162/files/fwesc.pdf

Factory default reset is item #7 in the beep tone list.
From the looks of your video, that is NOT normal. 1. The motor start ups are too far apart. 2. The throttle stick is way too high when one starts and shuts down.
Try the throttle calibration first. I also noticed in your video that your throttle trim is left in the middle. Not that there's anything wrong with this as some people do it that way, however, try to click the trim as low as it will go before you do the calibration. Give the following a try if you are able to do it by your self or if you can get a second person to help you.
1. Turn ON TX.
2. Move throttle stick to max. DO NOT have the throttle cut activated. The TX must send out a full throttle signal.
3. Now, plug in BOTH battery connectors as quickly as you can. This is where a second person can come in handy. However, if you are alone, it can still be done if you hold the plugs in such a way that you can plug them in very quickly one after the other.
4. (From previous power ups, you should know what the initialization sounds like normally when you plug the batteries in.) As soon as you hear the initial beeps end, pull the throttle stick to the bottom. At that time, the beeps should continue to the final 6 beeps telling you that you are using 6s batteries. If you are too slow in plugging in the batteries together or if you miss and go past the first, initial beeps, you are likely to set the brake ON to one of the ESCs and only calibrate the other.
If successful, unplug the batteries. Keep TX ON, throttle low and plug in the batteries (no need to hurry anymore). Now test the throttle to see if both motors start up together.

Ok, so a techie at Motion gave me a hand.. I was using the board for the throttle to tx.. He said to bypass the box, y-harness the throttle, plug the batteries in, AND THEN plug bec in.. For whayever reason, he said the control box (expletive blows, and it will cause the delayed sync..
As soon as we did it w/o cb, immediately synchronized.. Dude was awesome...

Everyone gave me the right advice and I'mssuper greatful, except I didn't think to by pass the control box.. I wanted to use to take advantage of the ribbons to some degree..

So now I'm curious, If I'm bypassing the control box for the throttle, and go directly to rx, how do i tie in the control box??

[Gringotuerto]

Look ma, no trim I had the same issue with my A-10. It took several attempts to get the calibration correct . xviper is giving you good advice above.

I saw a suggestion somewhere that I liked - fish out a BEC from a crashed plane, attach it to a battery, and use it as a standalone power source for your Rx. That way you can interact with the non-BEC ESC by itself, without hearing tones from the other one. It is not too hard to calibrate both ESCs at the same time if everything goes perfectly. But if anything needs debugging, you really want to be able to interact with each one individually.
You could use any 5v source, but most people have a BEC from a crashed plane laying around. If you don't, you obviously don't fly enough

This is useful in general. For example if you are setting up a new plane, and want to power up the Rx (for example to center a servo), it is useful to have a small, movable, standalone power source.

[Waconut]

Look ma, no trim I had the same issue with my A-10. It took several attempts to get the calibration correct . xviper is giving you good advice above.

[xviper]

Excuse me, i should have clarified, I downloaded the um from HW for the ESC, but that only went to 80a opto esc.. Maybe the 100 is different to program? Did you mean the product support page to the esc from HW, of the product support page from FW.. Tbh i didnt check FW fir um.. Let me do that now

I'm talking about the product page at MotionRC. In the support section, you will find the manual for the ESCs in this plane. Here, I've found it for you.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1052/4162/files/fwesc.pdf

Factory default reset is item #7 in the beep tone list.
From the looks of your video, that is NOT normal. 1. The motor start ups are too far apart. 2. The throttle stick is way too high when one starts and shuts down.
Try the throttle calibration first. I also noticed in your video that your throttle trim is left in the middle. Not that there's anything wrong with this as some people do it that way, however, try to click the trim as low as it will go before you do the calibration. Give the following a try if you are able to do it by your self or if you can get a second person to help you.
1. Turn ON TX.
2. Move throttle stick to max. DO NOT have the throttle cut activated. The TX must send out a full throttle signal.
3. Now, plug in BOTH battery connectors as quickly as you can. This is where a second person can come in handy. However, if you are alone, it can still be done if you hold the plugs in such a way that you can plug them in very quickly one after the other.
4. (From previous power ups, you should know what the initialization sounds like normally when you plug the batteries in.) As soon as you hear the initial beeps end, pull the throttle stick to the bottom. At that time, the beeps should continue to the final 6 beeps telling you that you are using 6s batteries. If you are too slow in plugging in the batteries together or if you miss and go past the first, initial beeps, you are likely to set the brake ON to one of the ESCs and only calibrate the other.
If successful, unplug the batteries. Keep TX ON, throttle low and plug in the batteries (no need to hurry anymore). Now test the throttle to see if both motors start up together.

[Look ma, no trim]

Do you have the ESC manual? It's NOT in the plane's manual. You can download the ESC manual if you go to the product support page.

Excuse me, i should have clarified, I downloaded the um from HW for the ESC, but that only went to 80a opto esc.. Maybe the 100 is different to program? Did you mean the product support page to the esc from HW, of the product support page from FW.. Tbh i didnt check FW fir um.. Let me do that now

[Look ma, no trim]

A video of my dilemma..

Im not really sure how to set 2 throttle channels and dialing in low throttle endpoints,ttbh, to bypass resetting the esc.. Im game though, I have. G2 DX8.. Ive downloaded the user manual, and i see no option for the the reset.. Maybe someone has some iside info on the reset?

https://youtu.be/v7j7Utzv9RY

[xviper]

How do you reset the esc? I've been read the manual and dont see a reset option..

Do you have the ESC manual? It's NOT in the plane's manual. You can download the ESC manual if you go to the product support page.

[Look ma, no trim]

yes they should. If after resetting both esc to default and then calibrate both esc and they still do not start at the same time then do this.
Put both esc on separate channels and adjust the low throttle endpoint for each esc in your transmitter.

How do you reset the esc? I've been read the manual and dont see a reset option..