Official Black Horse Fieseler Fi156C Storch 2850mm ARF Discussion Thread

[Stuk82]

[TwistedGrin]

More of a general question....I am flying the BH Spitfire, DO335, BA Eagle, F4U Corsair all equipped with HS-645MG servo......
1. Is there any benefit to using HS-625MG servo instead of HS-645MG servo for this model?
2. Regarding assembly - when hinging the Aileron & Flaps (hinges flush into surface hole) there is a slight overlap into the trailing wing edge?

Thanks in advance gents.....

Seriously lurking on this model....I have motor-batteries-ESC-Switches-Serial Battery Wiring Harness-NonSpark battery connectors-Props- On hand and ready for this bird

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Taking a slight gamble on this bird.....the Hanger 9 Fokker DVII is 74 1/2" fuselage barely fits in the SUV as its nose can hang out up front between the seats over the center console arm rest....I am hoping the Fieseler landing gear struts allow enough nose over-hang to do the same....so I am in for a 10S electric set up exactly to the component parts listed by MotionRC.except for HS-645MG servos and 7.4v LiPo for Rx/servo electronics.

It took me a long time to sell off some of my smaller foamies to fund this bird......I have no idea where I will store this thing either

Inserting all the numbers into eCalc with the MotionRc listed components...here are the calculated values:
Weight (projected): 19lbs
Wing Loading: 76.7 g/dm
Power to Weight: 152 w/lbs
Max Amps 100% throttle. 77.7amp
Watts @ 100% throttle: 2663watts
Stall speed: 26mph
Top speed: 66mph
Flight time @ 62% Throttle: 9.0min
Speed @ 62% Throttle: 44mph


TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Finally unboxed my Storch and started working on a main wing Aileron and Flap hinge deployment......I could not align the hinges using the inner portion of the aileron or flap to use the supplied plywood jig "hootis"....it would seem the curvature should sit on both the main wing and the aileron with correct distance...but by doin so the hinges will either be proud into the Aileron or high of the recesses mount of the wing !

How should the ailerons be set for zero neutral.....perhaps setting them parallel flat with the bottom of the wing?

Thanks in advance

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Well the 112inch Blackhorse Fieseler storch is 98% assembly completed...dispite the assembly manual printed upside down every other page and some specific instructions were incorrect. Drilling the wing struts for the support brackets was very tedious. The model is pre-drilled for nuts and screws but feeling for the holes under the covering is time consuming...let the tips of your fingers confirm the indentions. The manual did not provide any details to help confirm the electric motor mounting....so lot's of measuring and mock up with the cowl off and on were required to get it right. The struts and bracing for the landing gear was time consuming even without the manual being printed upside down....nuts and bolts are not well described but at least the kit is supplied with everything needed to complete the build. It took me nearly 6weeks to be nearly completed....the last two weeks with Covid....and the accompanying brain fog and physical fatigue in addition to working each day as I could. I still need to complete the wiring detail, mount the receiver then find some room to set the CG on this beast.

It is an odd beast with the landing gear installed

[TwistedGrin]

Will be interesting to see how much weight will be needed to hit the CG mark....would be nice if the dual 8000mAh 5s batteries shoved all the way forward will balance this rig.

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Preliminary balance test with the supplied CG balancer tool suggest the dual 8000mAh 5s Lipo's bring the tail up with the fuselage being flat level. I am NOT sure I trust it...but at least is looks promising so far

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Well either the book is correct using 110mm CG from the leading edge slat.......or the book is wrong if you use the Plywood and string CG Jig which is 141mm From the leading edge slat.

I guess I'll set it to the 110mm and toss the supplied Plywood and string CG jig.

If this is true I will need more nose weight added to the dual 5s 8000mAh LiPo !!

Here are some measurements for reference
With the model balanced level:
Leading edge slat to CG: 4.3inches / 110mm
Front Axle Line to CG: 2.14inch / 54.mm
Front Axle line to Tail Wheel Axle: 51inches / 1295.4mm
110mm CG to Tail Wheel Axle: 48.7inches / 1237.5mm


TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

I contacted Motion RC technical support who stated the CG is 110-120mm from leading edge slat. So I drilled my CG jig to 115mm and went to the field to set that CG by hanging it from the pits overhead beams. This made it very easy to balance the plane using the CG jig, add the necessary weight to balance the fuselage for level. A 1lb diver weight was the perfect match.........This puts the CG 7MM behind the forward wing tube. once the airframe was confirmed I also tuned the Ailerons - Flaps and checked the stabilizer directions. It is now ready to maiden!!

[TwistedGrin]

Hello friends, it's been a few years since this post stopped, I'm from Spain and I send you a greeting,
I recently bought a fieseler, from the supplier in Europe, and from what you see it is a v2.0 version which has a wooden tool to solve the CG problem. Now it comes covered on the inside with a layer of black fiber among others things, but the big doubt is that I see that with the wooden tool, the CG is in this version at 115mm but from the wing attack and not from the slat,
I'm worried because I'm going to fly soon with a 38cc ngh and checking your messages about the balance changes on this second version of the stork

To update this post and add comments:
The Version 2 Blackhorse Storch CG is a range of 110-120mm from the Forward Slat leading edge.
There is a consensus on this forum to set the CG at or near 115mm from the Forward Slat leading edge.
The 115mm CG is at or near 7mm aft of the forward wing tube.
The provided plywood CG Jig with string sets up the CG at or near 141mm.

I suggest drilling the supplied plywood CG jig with new holes and setting this model up at 115mm. (Photo attached)

My electric powered Storch with dual 5s 8000mAh Lipo / 2s 6.6v 2200mAh LiFe total flight weight is 22.3lbs.
My airframe required 1.0lb of weight added to the nose for fueselage level rest at 115mm CG

eCalc numbers provide the following data:
134 watts per pound power
90.3 Wing Load g/dm3
28 mph stall speed
8.3min flight time at 75% throttle

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Maiden pending 09-18-23 Hopefully some video will be provided

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Maiden plus five flights this evening.....excellent flyer.....but you have to understand it's a Storch.....not a P-51 Mustang. It flies very differently. I think with the CG at 110mm from Forward Slat leading edge the elevator needs way more throw than the manual states at 12mm.....this maiden was at 30mm Elevator travel....the low rates at 12mm I would have crashed. Perhaps the low throws of the manual could work if the CG was much further back....maybe at the 131mm that the plywood CG jig would provide. Personally I think the CG at 110 is perfect. The Hershey Bar flat wing creates adverse yaw that requires lots of rudder...nearly to bang the sticks to complete the turns....The model does fly nice and slow and over time I am confident to fly it much slower than my maiden and subsequent flights today. Breaking in new LiPo's at 60% throttle landing and coming back into the gate a 5min 40sec left my LiPo's at or near 3.89v per cell. Power is more than adequate with the Admiral GP26-245Kv motor on 10S power via 19x10 APC Electric prop.

Power and Set Up:
Admiral GP26-245Kv Motor
ESC: ZTW Gecko Opto 120amp
Flight Battery: (2) 5s 8000mAh LiPo in series (10S)
RX Battery: 2s 6.6v 2200mAh LiFe
Prop: 19x10 APC Electric
Flying Weight: 22.38lbs
CG: 110mm from Forward Slat Leading Edge
Flight surface throws:
Aileron 28mm - Flap 25mm & 45mm - Elevator 30mm - Rudder 35mm
Aileron/Rudder Mix: 30% - Flap Elevator Mix Down: 8% / 10%

Hitech 5645 MG Digital Servo's
Aura 8 Receiver Stabilizer / Dual Spektrum Satellite antennae
Spektrum DX8 Transmitter

A wonderfully Odd airplane to see and fly: https://youtu.be/hi4Ed0cLdTw?feature=shared

TwistedGrin

[TwistedGrin]

Offering up some more observations and advise for this model:

Setting up Ailerons: What is Neutral or Center position
Since the Ailerons and Flaps are not in the trailing edge of the wing.....there is no vantage point to line up a true neutral position. When I was setting my CG hanging it from the rafters of our club field covered pits - the airframe was set to level flight orientation. This revealed the wing tips provided a line to use for neutral of the Ailerons and Flaps. Set them up parallel to the main wing wing tips then follow with flaps....check the entire wing left and right and ensure a straight line from wing tip to wing tip.

Elevator: What is Neutral or Center position
The Elevator neutral flight position will be largely contingent on your CG of course....I set my elevator using the deflection of the forward edge outer tip section as a starting point. I did require more up trim than anticipated but nothing outlandish. The elevator sensitivity will also depend on your CG.....CG further back will require less travel than a forward CG. I chose to set up more elevator travel than the manual suggested by more than double and very glad I did. Had I not set up three levels of travel trims on my transmitter I would have crashed due to ineffective elevator. Again your CG will play a large part of your elevator pitch control.....I strongly suggest setting up multiple travel throws to a transmitter toggle or simply set up 100% throws and add in desired expo and tune in after each landing.

This aircraft presents ADVERSE YAW....whereas the downward Aileron creates enough drag to cause the airframe to yaw in the opposite direction of the wing dip. Therefore rudder input is required to help push/yaw the tail away from the wing dip.....input elevator trim as needed to help keep the airframe in level flight for coordinated turns. The aircraft does not want to turn with Ailerons only.

With practice the airframe will nearly spin on axis or make wing level flat turns with power added.....adding to the oddity of this large wingspan model. Beware of this habit though as things tend to get out of balance quickly .....keep the power on and keep altitude several mistakes high.

Landings will be slow and light with at least one measure of flap engaged...but keep the power on...this is NOT a CHOP-N-DROP model.

Take offs are of different skill sets....for those who dare...STOL maneuvers are hallmarks of this model but also beware of taking off green without enough power otherwise it will bite you.

The only issue I see is some degree of wing droop causing some Anhedral. I put some outward tension on my wing struts by turning the ball joints as far out as possible. This helps the wing to rest flat when they are joined up to the fuselage at the wing saddle. Check for some wing separation after each flight as I noticed mine had walked out a couple of MM on landing. It is debatable regarding the wing droop Anhedral affecting performance...I just don't like looking at it.

This model is large and when flown to its capability is very pleasing....slow passes and low and slow flat turns, aggressive turns present well as the airframe is large. STOL's are also part of the airframes allure....but again take nothing for granted and Be On Your Sticks.

My2Cents
TwistedGrin

[SanExup]

Wow! It is huge!!! It looks fantastic. Congratulations on the flights and setup!

[Terminater007]

On mine i had aileron and rudder mixed via TX and flew with the flaps down for most of the flight, also started to move the cg back ,started at 115mm and i think went back to 120-125mm.
be careful using full flap as it adds a lot of drag and will lose height quickly unless adding power (good for high lvl approach short landings)..

[TwistedGrin]

Texas All Scale fly event at our club field today......1st place Peoples Choice awarded to this bird.....

Ya flying full flaps making flat turn figure eights are crazy fun.....but as stated.....NEVER let your guard down

Three flights in today's event with gusty winds and really hot temps down here again in Fort Worth

Really enjoying this bird

Facebook page: Greater Southwest Aero Modelers

https://www.facebook.com/groups/897108777041350

TwistedGrin

[TonyF3A]

Well, it has been a long time since I posted about this airplane. I wanted to create some new slots for this model as my information shows that the stock ones are too thick. To make a very long story shorter, I damaged a wing panel while using it to vacuum-bag a new slot. So, I had to order a wing. They have been out of stock for almost 2 years, but I got a notice from Motion RC a few months back that they were back in stock. So, I ordered and received the new wing panel. I was working on other models at the time, so it had to sit on the back burner....
When I finally got to it, I rigged it up and mounted it to the airplane, and that's when I noticed that the slot was not in the same place as was on the Right hand wing! What the heck? It seems that the new wing had the slot mounted in what seems to be a more correct location. The trailing edge of the slot is about 1/4" from the top of the wing panel, and the leading edge of the slot is about 3/4" from the wing leading edge. In looking at pictures of other models and my research, this is where it should have been all along!

So, I contacted Motion RC and told them my new wing did not match the old wing. After some discussion, they send me a new Right Wing panel. I put that together and now the wing looks correct. SO, out to the field I go....
Got the engine started up (DLE 35) and out on the runway.. I throttled up and the airplane flew just beautifully! I really could not believe the difference moving those slots made! It turned a really terrible flying model into a very fun airplane!

With the custom landing gear that Dennis Crooks from Robart made for me, I now have a very nice model that I am very proud to fly!

I can't say enough about the help I received from Motion RC! They really did help me and now finally after a 3+ year battle with this model, I have a very cool airplane! I had it at a Warbirds and Classics event in Tullahoma, TN last weekend and got 4 good flights in on it! Lots of fun!

THANKS SO MUCH MOTION RC! YOU GUYS ROCK!!

[quitcherbitchen]

@ tony I do not own this model, but have scratch built a stand off scale version. I am interested in your comments about how bad the plane flew when the slots were not correct. Can you explain what the plane would do? I noticed mine would tip stall without warning. Just wondering if the old wing you had did the same thing. Perhaps I can cure my scratch build with a new slot.