Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[Davegeee]

Davegeee,

I would agree with jetfool about a thicker plastic would add some stiffness to the canopy assembly.

Whether that is enough to prevent an unscheduled departure of the canopy is a matter of trial and error.

I might add that the canopy bow should be quite solid and any supporting rail structure should attach to the bow solidly.

The clear canopy should be the added stiffness not the sole means of support.

I surmise any modification like this at 1/8th or smaller scale, we suffer from materials not being up to the task when trying to adhere to scale proportions and yet fly in 1:1 air at above scale speeds.

Also, the bubble canopy of your P-47 doesn't allow much air to escape 'through' it and theoretically then just catches the air.

Obviously, this becomes a force of resistance and either the canopy lives through that or it does not.

I've only flown my Corsair once with the same mod and I didn't open it.

I had no issues, but again it is a completely different type of' bubble' canopy, if it can even be accurately called a 'bubble' canopy.

The Corsair has the turledeck that keeps the air flow along the fuselage and not trying to lift the canopy in flight.

I am certain you will find solution, Dave.

Best, LB

Thanks, Elbee. Great points.

I have two points of attachment in the front on either side which consist of a small bass block with a brass rod drilled into the bottom of each block that is in-turn glued to the lower front sides of the canopy. There are corresponding holes drilled into the sliding or carriage brass square tube mechanism that rides in a slightly larger brass square tube with a lengthwise channel cut through the top side. So, the servo moves this whole carriage back and forth through those brass tubes mounted on the sides of the cockpit. The brass rods glued to the blocks in the canopy are in turn glued into the holes drilled into carriage mechanism listed above.

There is a third, temporary connecting point at the back of the bubble canopy that has a tiny hole drilled through it and I place a long pin with a round ball on the top through the hole in the canopy and all the way into the foam fuselage as far as it goes. It seems to keep the rear of the canopy firmly in place.

For the first 6 flights, I had zero problems with this method. Once I got back on the ground, I could just remove the pin in the rear of the canopy and the canopy could be operated for demonstration purposes all I wanted to.

Still some work to do to make sure that this canopy will stay on the airplane consistently. I'm sure there is a solution there.

Best,

Davegee

[Grossman56]

Dave, we can fix it! We just need to come up with the forward canopy frame and add a lip to slide under the windshield. It can be done!

Dan

[Elbee]

Grossman56,

Great catch, Dan.

1:1 have similar, as you know.

Best, LB

[Grossman56]

As just a thought, my FMS P51D had a sliding canopy. There was a lip that slide under the windshield when it was closed, probably for that exact reason, to stop the air from getting under it and removing the canopy. Something like that may help. Have you asked James if he would be interested in selling you the mold or at least letting you have access to it to print up a few extras?

Dan

[Elbee]

Davegeee,

I would agree with jetfool about a thicker plastic would add some stiffness to the canopy assembly.

Whether that is enough to prevent an unscheduled departure of the canopy is a matter of trial and error.

I might add that the canopy bow should be quite solid and any supporting rail structure should attach to the bow solidly.

The clear canopy should be the added stiffness not the sole means of support.

I surmise any modification like this at 1/8th or smaller scale, we suffer from materials not being up to the task when trying to adhere to scale proportions and yet fly in 1:1 air at above scale speeds.

Also, the bubble canopy of your P-47 doesn't allow much air to escape 'through' it and theoretically then just catches the air.

Obviously, this becomes a force of resistance and either the canopy lives through that or it does not.

I've only flown my Corsair once with the same mod and I didn't open it.

I had no issues, but again it is a completely different type of' bubble' canopy, if it can even be accurately called a 'bubble' canopy.

The Corsair has the turledeck that keeps the air flow along the fuselage and not trying to lift the canopy in flight.

I am certain you will find solution, Dave.

Best, LB

[Davegeee]

Davegee,
Might try contacting the manf. that made the canopy, they might work with you on a thicker canopy. If it was Park Plastics I'm sure they would work with you. Just my .02.
Best regards, Rex

Thanks, Rex. I think James has the mold he made and is required to make more of them. I don't think he is interested in printing up more of these due to low interest by modelers doing the same thing. I think I'm stuck with what I have. Good thought, though. I think I can buy the last two canopies he has to use as spares/replacements in case another canopy departs and I can't find it in that field. I walked probably a couple hours looking for it looking for a glint coming off from the sun, but whenever I came up to that spot, it was always and old beer can!



Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Might try contacting the manf. that made the canopy, they might work with you on a thicker canopy. If it was Park Plastics I'm sure they would work with you. Just my .02.
Best regards, Rex

[Davegeee]

A small Earth Magnet might be in order.

Dan

I'm looking into that now. The complications are that I have designed and built a motorized sliding canopy, and have taken pains to keep it as scale as possible. Unfortunately, that design is not as robust, say, if I just glued on the whole canopy/windscreen instead of the motorized unit. I'll give it a few more flights before I decide to do anything like the magnets. I don't really want to remove the powered canopy as that is an interesting demonstration on the ground, but the canopy itself is pretty flimsy and would better be made with a slightly thicker plastic. That would probably be a big help
Research continues...

[Grossman56]

A small Earth Magnet might be in order.

Dan

[Davegeee]

Davegee,
Sounds like Hairless Joe had a harry flight. Can you fix a small cable to canopy so it can't leave the plane and not be noticeable? Rex

Hi: Rex: Yes, it was a challenge, especially when I didn't even see the canopy depart the aircraft (being mostly clear plastic) and was wondering why this airplane was acting so crazy. Fortunately, I was able to bring it in for a safe landing. I've already got my backup canopy installed on the cockpit, and am looking at various protections to make sure it doesn't happen again. I"m not sure I can fix a cable to the canopy, but it is one of several ideas I have on it. The other 7 flights before it the canopy has stayed on beautifully, and I might have been lulled into complacency thinking it wouldn't come off like that. Well, that wasn't the case, as I found out.

I still plan on flying it again next week, and then it will go to the back of the rotation since this won't be an everyday flyer for me. I'll start working into getting the new Flightline P-51D for a new project, which should fun.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Sounds like Hairless Joe had a harry flight. Can you fix a small cable to canopy so it can't leave the plane and not be noticeable? Rex

[Davegeee]

I am finishing up painting and weathering the 150 gallon printed drop tank that Dan and I have been working on. After a very succesful flight and drop test yesterday, I painted and weathered the tank today. I can still change out this tank for the foam 108 gallon tank that comes with the model. That one has been tested almost 10 times now, using three different P-47s equipped with the E Flite drop tank mechanism. I have added some additional scale dtetails like the transfer and venting tubes from the tank to the airplane. They can be inserted into aluminum tubes that fit flush with the fuselage for static display, or set just next to the tubes on the fuse to look like they are attached but aren't so they come off cleanly during the drop. You might see one tube has a clear tube running through the middle part of the black tubing. That was so if for some reason the tank did not come off when dropped by the pilot, the glass tube would break and ensure that the tank separates cleanly from the plane.

I'll probably fly this rig next week to do another drop test, and hopefully it will come out as well as yesterday's test went.

Cheers

Davegee

Got two more flights on Hairless Joe today. The dropping of the completed, painted, and weathered 150 gallon drop tank went flawlessly. Totally undamaged from the fall. Unfortunately, somewhere in the mix my canopy departed the aircraft, which made the airplane do some funky moves,not knowing that the canopy was gone until I landed the plane. But fortunately, I had a spare and have been preparing it for use on a future flight.

Cheers

Davegee

[Davegeee]

I'm happy to report that the idea of a scratchbuilt large, scale 150 gallon drop tank was successfully flown this morning from my testbed Hairless Joe. This larger tank was crucial in allowing Thunderbolts to penetrate deeper into enemy territory on bomber escort and other interdiction of German fighters, railroads and trains, and other valuable targets. A big shout out to Danger Dan for designing the stl and making it something from being on a computer screen to the actual part on a model airplane. I do a little small project work on my Prusa Mini, but this was too large for my skills and printer, so we had a professional outfit make up the parts that Dan designed.

I wasn't really planning on necessarily flying this first iteration of a drop tank, and it was pretty thick but hollow construction. The entire thing unpainted and unfinished like today's test flight, weighs close to 8 ounces, which concerned me. But the overall plane ready to fly without the tank weighs 10 pounds. so I figured it could probably take it ok. I put the E Flite attach bracket in a slot I cut at the CG of the tank. And then the tank attached to the E Flite release mechanism, which is also at the CG of the airplane. When I tested it with the tank attached, it was absolutely perfect on CG, so I figured I had that going for me.

Took off this morning, I think I have the throws and Expo dialed in to my liking and it took off beautifully and very scale. Did about 3 passes to check for security of the tank, and then on the next pass dropped it as it passed me. As usual, it went unstable immediately and spun end over end until it hit the ground about 150 feet from my position. It did land with an audible "THUD!" which surprised me slightly but this drop tank is built like A Sherman Tank, and just had a bit of dirt on it.

So, this completes the testing I wanted to do for this airplane model project. I think the scale 150 gallon tank is probably unique to my knowledge on a foamie fighter. I made a larger one for a 1/5 scale gasser P-47M about 20 years ago that the tank dropping was part of the routine we used in competitive flights.

I'll give Hairless Joe the weekend off, now with 6 flights on it. I'll start working on the tank, doing more sanding, filling, and eventual painting to complete it in a Neutral Gray color.

I"ll attach a few pics from this morning. The one of the tank in the field is where it landed and looking back at our clubhouse where I was standing about 150 feet away.

Cheers

I am finishing up painting and weathering the 150 gallon printed drop tank that Dan and I have been working on. After a very succesful flight and drop test yesterday, I painted and weathered the tank today. I can still change out this tank for the foam 108 gallon tank that comes with the model. That one has been tested almost 10 times now, using three different P-47s equipped with the E Flite drop tank mechanism. I have added some additional scale dtetails like the transfer and venting tubes from the tank to the airplane. They can be inserted into aluminum tubes that fit flush with the fuselage for static display, or set just next to the tubes on the fuse to look like they are attached but aren't so they come off cleanly during the drop. You might see one tube has a clear tube running through the middle part of the black tubing. That was so if for some reason the tank did not come off when dropped by the pilot, the glass tube would break and ensure that the tank separates cleanly from the plane.

I'll probably fly this rig next week to do another drop test, and hopefully it will come out as well as yesterday's test went.

Cheers

Davegee

[davegee]

I hear you, I just thought that it was cool that your research was shown on the model. Great job!
I've been looking for reference pics for Shangri La as well, which is something I never thought I'd be doing! (Never say never)
So far, these have shown up...


Amazing what you can find.

Dan

Those are great reference photos, Dan. Those can help you determine accurately how the airplane looked during its combat tour. With photos you can often make the right decisions how your plane looks.

cheers

davegee

[Grossman56]

I hear you, I just thought that it was cool that your research was shown on the model. Great job!
I've been looking for reference pics for Shangri La as well, which is something I never thought I'd be doing! (Never say never)
So far, these have shown up...


Amazing what you can find.

Dan

[Davegeee]

Hey Rex, the NX8+ is great! I finally retired the old Dx8 as I didn't trust it after my last flight with my F8F Blue Angels Bearcat. I tell everyone to remember to set the antennae so that its vertical to the way you hold your radio, its a little tip buried in the back of the manual, beats the heck out of losing another airplane.
Looks like the weather may be decent so it might be time to drag out the ghosts (resurrected airplanes that spent some time in the garbage box) and get a pic or two.
Upon looking at the pics, Dave, I notice that the star and bar on the 'unpainted' wing is larger than the other, now knowing you, it's factually accurate, but what's the story behind that and how did you figure it out?

Dan

Hi Dan: originally they put a star and bar on the upper left wing and lower right wing. These were about 40 inch diameter, I think. Eventually they started adding a larger 55 to 60 inch diameter star and bar on the bottom right wing (in England) and eventually a lot of airplanes had the big stars and bars on the bottoms of both wings. With the M model P-47s, they put a 55-60 inch diameer star and bar on the upper left wing only, and smaller 40 inch star and bar on the bottom right wing, with no markings on the bottom left wing . So, you can see that things changed very rapidly in markings.and in some ways there was a hodgepodge of markings on different airplanes even in the same squadron.

Hairless Joe is a very interesting case, as it changed markings often due to repairs after severe battle damage in the summer-fall of 1944. The way I decided to display the plane is how it probably looked for a short ime in late summer (probably August) of 1944. After a crash landing back at base in Boxted after being severely damaged in Holland due to anti-aircraft batteries in support of Operation Market Garden on September 17, Schilling was able to limp back home but one of the gear folded while making the landing attempt. The airplane had a bunch of changes as they had to replace parts of the tail and wing. Nonetheless, on December 22, Schilling used this patched up plane to record 5 kills on a mission, making his total 22.5 kills and about a dozen extra ground kills.

There are a few pics of Hairless joe in 1944 that shows the markings if you really look for them. But as you know when doing accurate guesses as to what an airplane looked like that you want to replicate, you really have to know almost to the month or closer what the airplane looked at during the time that you want to duplicate those markings. Period photos are the key. They changed very quickly during these times!

[Grossman56]

Hey Rex, the NX8+ is great! I finally retired the old Dx8 as I didn't trust it after my last flight with my F8F Blue Angels Bearcat. I tell everyone to remember to set the antennae so that its vertical to the way you hold your radio, its a little tip buried in the back of the manual, beats the heck out of losing another airplane.
Looks like the weather may be decent so it might be time to drag out the ghosts (resurrected airplanes that spent some time in the garbage box) and get a pic or two.
Upon looking at the pics, Dave, I notice that the star and bar on the 'unpainted' wing is larger than the other, now knowing you, it's factually accurate, but what's the story behind that and how did you figure it out?

Dan

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Understand about limited flying on the bubble-top. I'm that way about my Corsair, not more than 7-8 flights but my Tigercat and P-47 will get much airtime this summer. Still fighting wind and rain here.
I plan to keep in touch with you guys and haven't heard from Elbee for a while but I'm sure he is flying and keeping tabs on us. Phantom is slowly being worked on so maybe Toledo for it next year. My buddy and I have come to the conclusion that we would need a large prop plane to compete with the national guys that show up. Need to finish my 90" 1/4 scale Boeing F4B-4. Its 3/4 done but the FL Corsair changed my building ways back in 2019. You and Elbee were the two main people that brought me into the foam scale models and I haven't regretted it. I'm ready to hit the button on a new Spectrum NX8+ and the E- Flite 1.0m Gee Bee.
Best Regards, Rex

[Davegeee]

Davegee,
Great News! Tank looks great and painted will look just like the real ones.
NO REST for the Wicked so on to your next project.
Have a great summer you guys.
Best Regards, Rex

Thanks, Rex. I'm delighted I was able to fly this V1 version of the fuel tank this morning. I really had some trepidation as to how it would fly due to its weight, and I was ready to push the "pickle" button if I had any problems with it to save the airplane. But that wasn't necessary and it flew as if there was no extra weight on it at all. Once I finish the drop tank I'll continue to fly with it attached to the plane, but I probably won't fly this airplane all that many times; it's specical to me due to my flying a larger gasser Hairless Joe almost 25 years ago and also flying it on the same runway that the real one flew from in Boxted England in 1944.

So, as you say, off to the next project! I will probably buy the new 1.6M P-51D flightline kit pretty soon. I look forward to modifying it some for a specific aircraft, probably an earlier P-51D with no vertical fin fairing like my E Flite planes were modified. I'll probably still keep it in the 357th FG but to a little later period where they removed most of the fuselage camo below the cockpit to NMF aluminum.

Let's stay in touch over the summer. I hope you have a great season of flying where we don't have to worry about getting dumped with snow and cold for a few months!

Cheers

davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Great News! Tank looks great and painted will look just like the real ones.
NO REST for the Wicked so on to your next project.
Have a great summer you guys.
Best Regards, Rex