Black Widow??

[mcriley2]

Just as I've mentioned previously, I'm with MRC and the decisions you make.

Over the last couple of years that I've been, being supplied by my Motion family, I've trusted in your recommendations and products on hand.

If you supply it I will buy. If you don't promote it, I don't need it.

Kinda crazy, right ... :Cool:

[TwistedGrin]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

[Hardway]

:(:(:( Thanks for the data!

[Woodcock]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

Nice post! Typical Dynam, I love em, I hate em. But price is always good, as long as you don't consider your time investment. I really dislike, and do not want to build any more models, but I do like to fiddle. Don't mind getting one ready.

However, can you just imagine the amount of grief Motion goes thru with retracts alone. Lots of places offer these, Motion doesn't necessarily have to buy off on all that grief.

Best Regards
Woodcock

[RRHandy]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

[OV10]

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

Right on Ron ;)Still amazes me that folks consciously shell out good money for inferior product that is not of the value they paid and then try to justify the expenditure with a half page list of pros/cons rationalization.
I do totally concur with TwistedGrin's wish that Motion eventually carry a Flight Line P-61 Black Widow:Drooling:

[TwistedGrin]

I say the same thing here as on RCG, keep buying their inferior product and they will keep making it, the future of quality starts with you and the others that Buy it and just except it.


Ron R.

Ron - You are missing the point and going off to another road.....I am not regretting my purchase nor the airframe......I am a happy camper.

The point is...."some" fellas may purchase this airframe and expect a trouble free assembly and perfect fitment. It's just not going to be this way with this Dynam model. If you know and understand this model will need some degree of modeling to not only make it a pleasure to look at....but also a complete boss in flight performance ....then the experience is much better.

Choose your quality of Airframe and be happy.

My post is not targeted at the master builder, nor the expert pilot, nor the savvy purchaser and purveyor of high dollar airframes....but rather to the average builder who is not familiar with the Dynam series R/C planes.

This particular offering has unique quirks that are now logged as common steps to take care of.....if pilots ascribe to this webpage and RCGroups.com - their own personal build experience will be much easier and less stressful...also as usual....different ideas are shown of how each modeler handles the same challenge.

No worries....all good....and have fun

TwistedGrin

[RRHandy]

TG, I'm not trying to offend anyone but this kind of product release will continue to be put out and as for the PRICE POINT stated, We should not have to fix poor factory workmanship period, that is the point being stated here and all the acceptance statements to IT'S OK is the point. You and every person willing to Buy and fix inferior product that's on you.
Yes you are trying to put info. out for the masses as I too but that apple is rotten, My last statement on this product. :Not-Talking::Confused:

[Woodcock]

RRHandy,

I totally understand where your coming from mate, and I can respect it. But with that said, I will buy what ever I want, when ever I want, from anyone I want. Yes even Dynam. I like there planes, you don't I completely get it mate.

So the reason I'm posting to you mate. I like the model stands you have in your icon. Would you please be kind enough to post a larger pic. of them, or direct me to where I can find a larger picture of them, "pretty please"? Since coming back I'm accumulating more than a few models, need a originazed storage system. Your's looks pretty nice, looks easy to build.

Best Regards
Woody

[Hoomi]

RRHandy,

So the reason I'm posting to you mate. I like the model stands you have in your icon. Would you please be kind enough to post a larger pic. of them, or direct me to where I can find a larger picture of them, "pretty please"? Since coming back I'm accumulating more than a few models, need a originazed storage system. Your's looks pretty nice, looks easy to build.

Best Regards
Woody

Glancing at that thumbnail photo in his profile pic, I'd say it's basic schedule 40 PVC pipe and fittings, and would be easy to make and customize for your fleet. If you wanted a little more cushion for the wings. inexpensive pipe insulation or even cheap pool noodles from the dollar store could be slid over the storage arms.

I've been considering building something similar, to go horizontal across the top of a shelf unit in our living room, for the storage of my current small collection. My wife's only concern when I ordered the Waco a couple of weeks ago, was where I was going to put it between flights.

[rifleman_btx]

That would be the easiest

[Woodcock]

Glancing at that thumbnail photo in his profile pic, I'd say it's basic schedule 40 PVC pipe and fittings, and would be easy to make and customize for your fleet. If you wanted a little more cushion for the wings. inexpensive pipe insulation or even cheap pool noodles from the dollar store could be slid over the storage arms.

I've been considering building something similar, to go horizontal across the top of a shelf unit in our living room, for the storage of my current small collection. My wife's only concern when I ordered the Waco a couple of weeks ago, was where I was going to put it between flights.

Yea,

Wifey's been eye balling my model room lately. She had a friend that started destroying planes in a ty raid for her husband. She keeps bringing that up, lol. But it's not just her, I like to keep things organized. Plus I don't really like hanger rash. I love collecting them, modding them, or getting a troubled plane to look beautiful and fly great. So I really need to become a better flyer, going out to do this right now, take care.

Best Regards
Woody

[Woodcock]

Ron - You are missing the point and going off to another road.....I am not regretting my purchase nor the airframe......I am a happy camper.

The point is...."some" fellas may purchase this airframe and expect a trouble free assembly and perfect fitment. It's just not going to be this way with this Dynam model. If you know and understand this model will need some degree of modeling to not only make it a pleasure to look at....but also a complete boss in flight performance ....then the experience is much better.

Choose your quality of Airframe and be happy.

My post is not targeted at the master builder, nor the expert pilot, nor the savvy purchaser and purveyor of high dollar airframes....but rather to the average builder who is not familiar with the Dynam series R/C planes.

This particular offering has unique quirks that are now logged as common steps to take care of.....if pilots ascribe to this webpage and RCGroups.com - their own personal build experience will be much easier and less stressful...also as usual....different ideas are shown of how each modeler handles the same challenge.

No worries....all good....and have fun

TwistedGrin

She looks beautiful mate.

[RRHandy]

Here you go. 3/4 PVC.

[Woodcock]

Here you go. 3/4 PVC.

Handy, that might be PVC. But it's one nice plane stand. If your feeling generous. I would very much like a little dimensional info. Looks like you're a big fan of Corsair's, lol. When I first got into the hobby, I was building a Top Flight Corsair. Had an unexpected move, "Divorce". Lost a lot of the pieces in the process. Ended up throwing it away. I'm kinda happy to be getting one ready to fly now. Been a long wait.

Best Regards
Woody

[RRHandy]

Try this, if too vague I will redraw. Ron.

[Woodcock]

Thank you Ron.

I'm going to start rounding up the parts tomorrow. I couldn't help but notice your rack is holding quite a verity of aircraft, large ones, small ones. I wanted your dim.'s because I want my to do the same thing, it looks as if it wouldn't be to hard to get any of them in and out. You have a very nice collection of planes. Thanks again man.

Best Regards
Woody

[RRHandy]

Welcome. :Cool:

[Sjanczar]

I saw the post from Aros the said FMS sells the Durafly only to Hobbyking. I’m happy to hear that they have good business ethics.

[Hippie 64]

Gents, I purchased the subject "Dynam 1500mm P-61 Black Widow from Grayson Hobby. The Airframe delivers in the usual Dynam packaging - but at least Dynam is using foam supports on this model. Dynam has moved up a little in their ARF pre-assembled state:

The Good:
1. Servo horns, control rods are pre-installed
2. Wiring harness is completed in the main fuselage and now brought back to the center wing cavity with leads pulled out ready for R/X deployment
3. LED's are wired in and functional....they even provided an LED blinker controller with an extra wiring harness as an option for deployment
4. The Motors are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
5. The ESC's are supposedly a higher grade product above the standard bottom line Detrum line
6. There is a psuedo battery tray
7. The wiring harness soldering looks good
8. There is some wood ply in the long nose section for strength and support

The Not so good:
1. The fitment of my pre-assembled ARF was horrible.....large gaps presented multiple issues during the assembly (Other modelers reported their pre-assembled nacelles were not as bad as my photos present)
2. The inner blocks that support the rearward boom sections are too long, thus preventing positive mating to the forward boom fuselage section.....needs about 1/2 cut off for proper fitment
3. The elevator servo extension was backwards, I had to cut mine a solder the wires together
4. There is no cooling what-so-ever to the motors and ESC's
5. The servo's may or may not ever find center again
6. The outer wing mounting points on my wings could not line up with the mating surface mounting holes
7. Most of the magnets are applied in a manner to which they are mostly innefectivee
8. The rudders are warped
9. The elevator is horizontally twisted

I can see where the "Novice" modeler will have major issues with this delivered product. The airframes pre-assembly is more of an issue than the model itself. I would have rather it deliver un-assembled at least to have a chance at getting an acceptable over-all fitment. The patient, knowledgeable, parts bin savvy, ready handed tool ladened experience modeler will be able to address all the deficits of the delivered product. But the novice builder will not have a positive experience.

As for the airframes final completion......once all of the issues are addressed by any method or level of the builder......it still manages to be an excellent aircraft. Different, unusual, menacing.

I can readily understand Motion choosing not to offer this particular airframe. If only The pre-assembled components of the fuselage Nacelles alone were addressed, Motion might be in a better position to offer this bird.

IMHO -
A. This particular Dynam airframes flaws are NOT the components, hardwares, nor the quality of the foam or the details......its failure is in fact the - shoddy QC of the factory pre-assembly.
B. If you know up front about the flaws and understand how to deal and address them to your level of satisfaction....the end product is very good!
C. The other Dynam models are an excellent value for the price point....and fortunately for the most part...their respective pre-assembled components are acceptable for the novice builder...these models pose no potential hardship for the retailer answering questions and servicing a low percentage of component failure

I don't think Motion should dump the other Dynam line of products....due to the present state of this model.....nor for any mis-alignment of manufacture-distributor relationship related solely from this model. This model is unique in many ways ...good and bad. It's good that a distributor can choose the models they wish to market....therefore it appears it's not an all or none container purchase of inventory.

Yes this model appears to be a builders beware.....actual delivered pre-assembly QC is lacking....over-all airframe fitment accuracy will vary....thus the level of corrective measures and fiddley will vary.

I do hope Flightline offers this model someday......it's a super good looking R/C when completed nicely.

TwistedGrin

I too like the plane and as with ALL Dynam planes you need to go in planning to fix, altar , or just make it better . It's a Hobby and I enjoy more than just the flying aspect of it.

I'm not sure if you are aware but in the recent past MRC and Dynam had a business arrangement that was , in my understanding , costly to MRC. Now none of us know or should know what the details of the deal are but Mgmt.. made clear of some money transactions made for assistance . Alpha spent lots and lots of time there with a few different planes in part to get the right to sell for a period of time before anyone else . Dynam reneged on the deal . More so they opened a Dynam exclusive store in the same area . If MRC makes the decision to deplete their stock and then drop the line they have more than a few good reasons .

If they do and you continue buying elsewhere it's your choice and ALL here are flyers and only want to share and help each other . As for me if MRC decides to drop I will not buy any more Dynam products unless to repair what I have . I have been with them for a number of years and have NEVER EVER had this rate of service and value from any other seller . They have made me and every other customer feel like family and we count .

Bryan