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Henglong vs Taigen

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  • Henglong vs Taigen

    Just took delivery of a Taigen Sherman 76mm.,have a Henglong already. They both have their plus and minuses, but IMO I think the Henglongs edges out the Taigen. My Taigen arrived with a bogus smoke unit. It comes on, but barely a wisp of smoke. Took it apart examined everything, and have come to the conclusion there's not enough voltage to the heating element to make this thing puff. I don't care for the design, as its primitive in design. The stock Henglong blows it away....literally.

    Question: Can a stock Henglong be made to work in the Tiegen? If so what would the wiring schematic look like?
    2. Has anyone tried these succesfuuly:



    in either brand ? I know smoke is not an issue to many, but I think it's cool in the rare instances its called upon...

  • #2
    I can confirm the unit in Taigen is underpowered (plenty of motor noise, but not much to show for), I believe the V3 MFU is putting out 3.7v to the smoker. I too took mine apart and had it on a bench, I noticed there was only one tiny intake hole to get pressure from the "piston", I drilled an extra one of similar size, put things back but tapped power from 6v, well, it worked reasonably well and I thought it was the extra hole that helped. Unfortunately, it was the added voltage that made the smoker produce better output. I also tested it without the blower but with one of those cylindrical 370 air pump @ 6V, and it also produced respectable output.

    I have one of those HL blower units coming on a slow boat, will see if that will fair better than the Taigen one. This is more of an annoyance for me, and I wouldn't;t want to spend $70+ for a replacement that produces constant streaming "smoke" though.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Zippersnapper View Post
      Just took delivery of a Taigen Sherman 76mm.,have a Henglong already. They both have their plus and minuses, but IMO I think the Henglongs edges out the Taigen. My Taigen arrived with a bogus smoke unit. It comes on, but barely a wisp of smoke. Took it apart examined everything, and have come to the conclusion there's not enough voltage to the heating element to make this thing puff. I don't care for the design, as its primitive in design. The stock Henglong blows it away....literally.

      Question: Can a stock Henglong be made to work in the Tiegen? If so what would the wiring schematic look like?
      2. Has anyone tried these succesfuuly:



      in either brand ? I know smoke is not an issue to many, but I think it's cool in the rare instances its called upon...
      Taigen uses the old 5.2/5.3 HL smoke units. The new HL smoke units work well because they have higher voltage being supplied to them, hence “S” designation on the 6.0 systems. (The “S” is the indication for higher smoke systems voltage)

      So simply adding the new 6.0S HL smoke system will not change the output any more then you are seeing now. The Taigen V3 just does not put out enough volts for it to operate at 100%.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post

        Taigen uses the old 5.2/5.3 HL smoke units. The new HL smoke units work well because they have higher voltage being supplied to them, hence “S” designation on the 6.0 systems. (The “S” is the indication for higher smoke systems voltage)

        So simply adding the new 6.0S HL smoke system will not change the output any more then you are seeing now. The Taigen V3 just does not put out enough volts for it to operate at 100%.
        Well, crap. I ordered one from Toucans US warehouse a couple of hours ago....Guess I'll have a spare. So looking at "Eric's" video, I sure would like to know how he's getting this result, aside from the obvious fact he's using a dedicated power supply, and fails to show its performance in the actual tank....off of the motherboard.



        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sclui56 View Post
          I can confirm the unit in Taigen is underpowered (plenty of motor noise, but not much to show for), I believe the V3 MFU is putting out 3.7v to the smoker. I too took mine apart and had it on a bench, I noticed there was only one tiny intake hole to get pressure from the "piston", I drilled an extra one of similar size, put things back but tapped power from 6v, well, it worked reasonably well and I thought it was the extra hole that helped. Unfortunately, it was the added voltage that made the smoker produce better output. I also tested it without the blower but with one of those cylindrical 370 air pump @ 6V, and it also produced respectable output.

          I have one of those HL blower units coming on a slow boat, will see if that will fair better than the Taigen one. This is more of an annoyance for me, and I wouldn't;t want to spend $70+ for a replacement that produces constant streaming "smoke" though.
          I had mine apart last night, just the lid with the heating coil & wick wrapped around it, made sure the wick was wet, flipped the switch, and the disappointment and obvious issue was seen first hand... I'm a former smoker who Vapes now....for the last 11 years...So I know exactly how this "smoke unit" is supposed to work, and the principal behind the design. This things not getting crap for voltage/wattage, and is a joke....

          Would you be willing to share how you got 6v to the pump? Did you add a resister, tieing off from the main batter lead? What's involved.?..because I think you have the only viable option to get a decent puff of smoke out of this dead horse.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, Erik started w/ 7.5v in the video and went up to 8.5v. When I started powering the smoker using a 7.2v NiMH, I saw similar results. When I was pulling 6v for testing, I used a 6v source I normally have sitting around for Rx test & binding, nothing fancy. Since I am not using the Taigen Tx currently, I do have some options - I could tap off the tank's NiMH and run an electronic ON/OFF using a spare channel (smoke is ON at all times when using hobby grade Tx), but the smoker is not a priority ATM.

            What is stranger is that the smoker output on the V3 MFU is 3.7v, on top of that, Taigen places a voltage limiter "board" on the smoker.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by sclui56 View Post
              Well, Erik started w/ 7.5v in the video and went up to 8.5v. When I started powering the smoker using a 7.2v NiMH, I saw similar results. When I was pulling 6v for testing, I used a 6v source I normally have sitting around for Rx test & binding, nothing fancy. Since I am not using the Taigen Tx currently, I do have some options - I could tap off the tank's NiMH and run an electronic ON/OFF using a spare channel (smoke is ON at all times when using hobby grade Tx), but the smoker is not a priority ATM.

              What is stranger is that the smoker output on the V3 MFU is 3.7v, on top of that, Taigen places a voltage limiter "board" on the smoker.

              "Taigen places a voltage limiter "board" on the smoker"....I seen that. What if I were to bypass that ?

              Comment


              • #8
                😕

                Comment


                • #9
                  Even the newer HL units come in two variants, one is for 6.0v (with a limiter for their 5.3 & older 6.0/6.1s) and the other 7.4v for revised 6.0s/6.1s. I just pulled out the Taigen smoker and meter, hooked the smoker directly to the 7.2v NiMH, measured 7.2v at the limiter's board input, as well as output. Didn't pull the cover to test the heating element but the poles at the smoker motor read 7.2v, not entirely sure what the limiter board does, as far as I can see with my very limited knowledge, it acted like a pass-thru junction to provide input to the heating element+motor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by sclui56 View Post
                    Even the newer HL units come in two variants, one is for 6.0v (with a limiter for their 5.3 & older 6.0/6.1s) and the other 7.4v for revised 6.0s/6.1s. I just pulled out the Taigen smoker and meter, hooked the smoker directly to the 7.2v NiMH, measured 7.2v at the limiter's board input, as well as output. Didn't pull the cover to test the heating element but the poles at the smoker motor read 7.2v, not entirely sure what the limiter board does, as far as I can see with my very limited knowledge, it acted like a pass-thru junction to provide input to the heating element+motor.
                    Interesting. I pulled the cover and did a quick test with my batt @ 7.8v. My MM read 4.7v going into the limiter board. I've pulled the batt, and going to test voltage again, on a full charge. Is it possible? that the voltage to the board will go up, if the tank is at full throttle? In other words, does the smoke output coincide with engine RPM, so to speak? I'm going to test that theory by putting the tank on "jack stands" and open her up.....testing the voltage and observing (indoors, no wind) to see what it does. I did order the newer HL unit

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I read some time ago that the Taigen smoker is proportional. And you are right, the output from the MFU is 4.7/4.8, don't know where I got that 3.7 from earlier. And when the tank is idling, the input at the smoker reads 4.7v.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sclui56 View Post
                        I read some time ago that the Taigen smoker is proportional. And you are right, the output from the MFU is 4.7/4.8, don't know where I got that 3.7 from earlier. And when the tank is idling, the input at the smoker reads 4.7v.
                        So I hooked up a freshly charged Batt @ 8.7v. I'm getting 5.1v at the limiter board...idling. BUT, here is the interesting part that I just noticed. When examining the wiring, we can see that the voltage IS NOT being limited to the heating unit, but rather to the pump motor alone:

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	20210404_201011.jpg Views:	0 Size:	129.5 KB ID:	307352
                        With that said, the MFU is only supplying a very limited current to the heating element at idle. With the Tank on jack stands, and at full throttle, the smoke output is significantly higher. So yes, Taigen's system is proportional indeed. I would rejoice, but even so, the smoke output does not come close to that of the Henglong V6 unit even at idle.

                        I also trashed that silly cotton wick that looked like it was pulled from an old-fashioned oil lamp, and replaced it with my own and tied it tightly using Kanthal. The purpose was to get maximum contact of wick to the heating element, which in this case is nothing more than a thin gauge wire rope...which leads me to another idea. Im going to trash this "wire rope" they are using as a heating element, and replace it with 32ga Kanthal. Because of my vaping experience, Kanthal would be Ideal, and by using a thinner gauge, it will get much hotter, much quicker. If I can't reliably increase the voltage to the element in its stock form, I can go to a lighter gauge heating element and effectively get the same or better results.......stay tuned.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zippersnapper View Post

                          So I hooked up a freshly charged Batt @ 8.7v. I'm getting 5.1v at the limiter board...idling. BUT, here is the interesting part that I just noticed. When examining the wiring, we can see that the voltage IS NOT being limited to the heating unit, but rather to the pump motor alone:

                          Click image for larger version Name:	20210404_201011.jpg Views:	0 Size:	129.5 KB ID:	307352
                          With that said, the MFU is only supplying a very limited current to the heating element at idle. With the Tank on jack stands, and at full throttle, the smoke output is significantly higher. So yes, Taigen's system is proportional indeed. I would rejoice, but even so, the smoke output does not come close to that of the Henglong V6 unit even at idle.

                          I also trashed that silly cotton wick that looked like it was pulled from an old-fashioned oil lamp, and replaced it with my own and tied it tightly using Kanthal. The purpose was to get maximum contact of wick to the heating element, which in this case is nothing more than a thin gauge wire rope...which leads me to another idea. Im going to trash this "wire rope" they are using as a heating element, and replace it with 32ga Kanthal. Because of my vaping experience, Kanthal would be Ideal, and by using a thinner gauge, it will get much hotter, much quicker. If I can't reliably increase the voltage to the element in its stock form, I can go to a lighter gauge heating element and effectively get the same or better results.......stay tuned.
                          What is "Kanthal" ??

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cascabel View Post

                            What is "Kanthal" ??
                            Kanthal is basically wire that comes in various assorted gauges, and even flat. Kanthal flat wire is used in many appliances such as space heaters and toaster ovens. It's designed to get really hot, and yet doesn't break down.

                            In the vaping world where we make our own coils (that are micro and get red hot) its the only way to go. Kanthal can be had by any vape shop, and its cheap. Ebay would have it for sure

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zippersnapper View Post

                              Kanthal is basically wire that comes in various assorted gauges, and even flat. Kanthal flat wire is used in many appliances such as space heaters and toaster ovens. It's designed to get really hot, and yet doesn't break down.

                              In the vaping world where we make our own coils (that are micro and get red hot) its the only way to go. Kanthal can be had by any vape shop, and its cheap. Ebay would have it for sure
                              Thanks, I never would have guessed !! What size would you suggest for this purpose ?

                              Comment


                              • #16
                                Originally posted by Cascabel View Post

                                Thanks, I never would have guessed !! What size would you suggest for this purpose ?
                                I'm going to start with 30ga.,,,and see where it leads me. I do have stock of 28-34ga, and even some flat. I'm pretty confident the results will be worth the effort. Here is a Kanthal coil I did awhile back. Notice it's not even red hot yet.

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                                And now for my second revelation of the night. Im not sure what these tank manufactures are using as the "Smoke oil", but I'm willing to bet it's the same stuff we use making our vape juice. Propylene Glycol, which is a carrier agent for our nicotine & flavoring does not produce clouds of smoke,but gives us our "throat hit". Vegetable Glycerin on the other hand gives immense clouds, and is favored by the "cloud chaser" vaping crowd.

                                I'm willing to bet, If I use VG, and a Kanthal coil setup, like I use in vaping, the smoke unit on these tanks would be incredible....they would look like all their piston rings were shot, not to mention the valve guides completely worn out. Were talking smoke in Epic proportions.
                                Attached Files

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                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Zippersnapper View Post

                                  Im going to start with 30ga.,,,and see where it leads me. I do have stock of 28-34ga, and even some flat. I'm pretty confident the results will be worth the effort.
                                  Let us know when you figure it out. I found some on ebay. Thanks !!

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    This might be a good substitute for the "wick" https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fire-Spinni...gAAOSwZVJaxSeq

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                                    • #19
                                      Click image for larger version

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                                      Originally posted by sclui56 View Post
                                      This might be a good substitute for the "wick" https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fire-Spinni...gAAOSwZVJaxSeq
                                      Im good, but yea....
                                      Attached Files

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                                      • #20
                                        I come up with a 1.4ohm resistance of the stock Taigen heating Element. Staying within this parameter will be important in making a custom Kanthal coil.

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