Metal upgrade for a TongDe M60A1 to improve reliability

[keilau]

Wow, what a write-up. A heart felt appreciation.

A lighter color like the desert sand is somewhat difficult to capture correctly in scale. It has been more than 30 years since Desert Storm. I am sure some model paint company must have figured out how to do it correctly.

[Rubicon99]

Wow, what a write-up. A heart felt appreciation.

A lighter color like the desert sand is somewhat difficult to capture correctly in scale. It has been more than 30 years since Desert Storm. I am sure some model paint company must have figured out how to do it correctly.

You might still be able to find old stock ModernMaster US Armor Sand on EBay or other auction site. I found one a few months ago which I plan on using on my upcoming M113.

[keilau]

You might still be able to find old stock ModernMaster US Armor Sand on EBay or other auction site. I found one a few months ago which I plan on using on my upcoming M113.

Even if I found it, I doubt that I would buy it. "Testors MODEL MASTER US GULF ARMOR SAND AR00200 1/2 OZ TES4812" is worth the weight of gold.

After trying Vallejo and Humbrol and both failed, I am reluctant to try new options. I hope that some one knows a paint other than the discontinued Testors Model Master. Yes, I know that it is a long shoot.

If nothing else, I will try mixing Vallejo Desert Yellow with white to get the Tongde desert color.

[tank_me]

I bought 6 of the Model Master bottles from this place: https://crazymodeltrains.com/testors-4720-sand/

They say Testors, but they are indeed Model Masters Sand FS33531 1/2oz glass bottles.

I like the 4720 Sand over the 4812 if you are going to weather it. The 4812 looks like it might get too dark after weathering. It looks pretty spot on right out of the bottle if you don't weather it.

[keilau]

I bought 6 of the Model Master bottles from this place: https://crazymodeltrains.com/testors-4720-sand/

They say Testors, but they are indeed Model Masters Sand FS33531 1/2oz glass bottles.

I like the 4720 Sand over the 4812 if you are going to weather it. The 4812 looks like it might get too dark after weathering. It looks pretty spot on right out of the bottle if you don't weather it.

Thoroughly enjoy searching through their Testors stock. Very extensive inventory at excellent prices. I bookmarked their website for future uses.

The Testors 4712 is enamel gloss sand. Unfortunately, they do not have the 4812 acrylic matt sand. The light sand color spray is my final coat. I do not do further weathering. I am not a good detailer.

On another subject, this store has the Testors micro spruce cutter, needle file set and pinvise drill at normal prices. All these are indispensable plastic modeling tools and great for 1:16 scale RC tanks mod.

[keilau]

I finished a oil wash using Burnt Umber. My wash is much more subtle than the Tongde shading. After letting the wash to dry for 48 hours, it looks very good to me. The reactive armor panel looks like the real reactive armor. I decide to finish it with a mist spray coat of Humbrol Sand63. In solid color, the Humbrol is a shade or 2 darker than the Tongde paint. I will see how it works out with the mist coat. So far, it looks ok.

The 1:16 scale RC tank is a smaller subject in large scale. In most cases, detail paint job is not required. In the case of TD reactive armor panel, the TD engineer did not make the details bigger to compensate for the scale effect, making the wash and final coat necessary. It is a good exercise for me to refresh my painting touch. I will let the final coat dry for 2 days before taking more pictures.

[RichJohnson]

FYI gulf armor sand is not the same as US Armor sand, its a darker yellow than US Armor sand.

[keilau]

FYI gulf armor sand is not the same as US Armor sand, its a darker yellow than US Armor sand.

The Tongde paint on the US Marine Corp M60A1 RC tank is a shade or 2 lighter than the XF49 Desert Yellow that Tamiya recommends for their 1:35 US Marine Corp M60A1 plastic model. Does that mean that TD used the wrong color on their RC M60A1?

I have no plan to repaint the TD M60A1 with the darker desert yellow. I take whatever I have now.

Does the Gulf armor sand get lighter or darker after weathering in the desert?

While I am fine with the TD sand color with a mist coat of Humbrol Sand63 which compared well to the Desert Storm news clips, the plastic black color of the TD track looks much, much more unrealistic. Wheathering metal track is easy. I have not gotten the slightest idea on what I can do to a plastic track to make it look better.

[RichJohnson]

Weathering in the desert is just dust and dirt collected on the tank with grease and oil stains on the serviceable spots which get dark and collect dirt.

Technically The gulf armor sand is really more appropriate for desert storm vs the more modern US armor sand which is lighter sand color.

as for one brand of paint to another vs the tank, I think TD was a little too bright with their color. But if you are going to leave it as is then try dulling it out first with a flat clear coat to get rid of the plastic look. Make it dull and flat. Then I would get it dirty. If you want to paint on the weathering, you could use motor oil drop on each hub cap and let it collect dirt too.
otherwise a good dusting of a dust, or buff color would give it a desert look. But I just get my tanks dirty and very rarely weather them.

[keilau]

Weathering in the desert is just dust and dirt collected on the tank with grease and oil stains on the serviceable spots which get dark and collect dirt.

Technically The gulf armor sand is really more appropriate for desert storm vs the more modern US armor sand which is lighter sand color.

as for one brand of paint to another vs the tank, I think TD was a little too bright with their color. But if you are going to leave it as is then try dulling it out first with a flat clear coat to get rid of the plastic look. Make it dull and flat. Then I would get it dirty. If you want to paint on the weathering, you could use motor oil drop on each hub cap and let it collect dirt too.
otherwise a good dusting of a dust, or buff color would give it a desert look. But I just get my tanks dirty and very rarely weather them.

Rich, these are very helpful information to help me move forward to finish the final dressing of my US Marine M60A1.

Both you and the Tamiya (1:35 US Marine Corp M60A1) kit manual show that Tamiya XF59, Humbrol Sand63 and Vallejo Desert Yellow are the right color for a Desert Storm era Marine M60A1. The Tongde paint which is a shade lighter is more appropriate for the modern US Army sand such as on the Abrams. (Is my interpretation correct?)

I found a Krylon paint which has the same shade of sand, but much more flat than the Tongde paint on the M60. I used the Humbrol, not this paint on my TD M60.

[keilau]

The pictures below show the TD shading for a reactive armor plate already installed vs. the user added plates before wash.


I added a wash to the M60A1 plates and other torrent and upper body details using burnt umbra oil. (before final paint coat.)

[keilau]

Taking a hind from the more experienced tankers on this forum, I sprayed a mist coat of Humbrol sand63 over the washed upper tank body. It makes it a shade darker and more flat.

The towing cables and decals will be added next.

[keilau]

Before I go to the finishing step, I turned on the M60 to check it out. It came on for a few minutes and then went dead. No sound, no light. The battery is normal at 8 volts. The LED outputs are about 1 volt and unstable. The ESC output has no DC offset. I did not open the TDC-X multifunctional mainboard to see whether there is any burnt parts. But I did not smell anything.

I searched AliExpress and e-bay, but cannot find any spare TDC-X mainboard for sale. I received the TongDe US Patton M60A1 tank in early May, 2023. I don't know if there is any channel to request under warranty service. I will contact Nova Hobby to find out.

This TDC-X is the second dead mainboard I had. The last one was a Heng Long TK-5.3 quite a while ago.

Fortunately, the multifunctional mainboard is one thing that Tongde made compatable with Heng Long. I will borrow one board from one of my HL tanks to test the M60. I hope to confirm that the malfunction part is the mainboard only.

I report whatever happens to my RC tanks and do not imply that TD product is inferior.

[keilau]

The Tongde paint on the US Marine Corp M60A1 RC tank is a shade or 2 lighter than the XF59 Desert Yellow that Tamiya recommends for their 1:35 US Marine Corp M60A1 plastic model. Does that mean that TD used the wrong color on their RC M60A1?

I have no plan to repaint the TD M60A1 with the darker desert yellow. I take whatever I have now.

Does the Gulf armor sand get lighter or darker after weathering in the desert?

While I am fine with the TD sand color with a mist coat of Humbrol Sand63 which compared well to the Desert Storm news clips, the plastic black color of the TD track looks much, much more unrealistic. Wheathering metal track is easy. I have not gotten the slightest idea on what I can do to a plastic track to make it look better.

It is hard to actually see the tank color on this video. But the sandish yellow environment gives good reference for the color choice for the Desert Storm era Marine M60A1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUufV3WpT6w

[RichJohnson]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to charge up the battery again and see if it turns back on? They will shut down if the battery is low. If you havent charged it in a while that is probably the issue.
If you do determine the mfu has died, I would not bother replacing it with another TD unit. I have thrown two of them away as we consider them junk. Buy a henglong 7.1 system for it, they operate much better and offer servo operations. The units are available from toucan on ebay.

[keilau]

Just out of curiosity, have you tried to charge up the battery again and see if it turns back on? They will shut down if the battery is low. If you havent charged it in a while that is probably the issue.
If you do determine the mfu has died, I would not bother replacing it with another TD unit. I have thrown two of them away as we consider them junk. Buy a henglong 7.1 system for it, they operate much better and offer servo operations. The units are available from toucan on ebay.

No, I did not try recharging the battery pack. I am familiar with the mainboard battery low voltage protection feature which is essential for Lithium cells and one of the best improvement that Heng Long made when they switched to Lithium packs.

On the TD, I have a recently built pack using individually tested EBL cells. The pack was freshly charged and used less than 10 minutes total. I did disconnect the pack from the tank completely. When it measured over 8 volts unloaded, I felt confident that the battery is good.

If the M60 tests good with another mainboard, I will purchase a HL TK-7.0. I have no plan to put servo recoil on the TD M60. Thanks for taking an interest in my trouble.

[keilau]

No, I did not try recharging the battery pack. I am familiar with the mainboard battery low voltage protection feature which is essential for Lithium cells and one of the best improvement that Heng Long made when they switched to Lithium packs.

On the TD, I have a recently built pack using individually tested EBL cells. The pack was freshly charged and used less than 10 minutes total. I did disconnect the pack from the tank completely. When it measured over 8 volts unloaded, I felt confident that the battery is good.

If the M60 tests good with another mainboard, I will purchase a HL TK-7.0. I have no plan to put servo recoil on the TD M60. Thanks for taking an interest in my trouble.

The Tongde US Marine M60A1 RC tank is back in working condition with a Heng Long TK-6.0S radio system I retired from a Leopard 2A6.

I have some minor finishing job with the M60. The towing cables that came with the tank is poorly implemented. I will replace them with bare (remove the nylon jacket) gauge 20 twisted copper wires painted flat black.

I am getting parts to implement servo barrel and servo elevation for the Leopard 2A6. I ordered and received the Canshuo YK26/TK26 radio instead of the HL TK-7.1 just to try something different. I have not decided on which servo recoil unit to get yet. This video shows the recoil action of a 2A6. (Time 1:50 on)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ePeJM9koA

The 2A6 has an automatic loading gun system. The gun tills up for the next round at the end of the recoil. A combined servo recoil and servo elevation is required. Any hands on experience you can share about your servo recoil system?

I will install the Canshuo YK26/TK26 radio to replace the HL TK-6.0S to test it out on the 2A6 later this week. (I am still finishing up the paint job on the TD M60.)

[keilau]

The Tongde US Marine M60A1 RC tank is back in working condition with a Heng Long TK-6.0S radio system I retired from a Leopard 2A6.

I have some minor finishing job with the M60. The towing cables that came with the tank is poorly implemented. I will replace them with bare (remove the nylon jacket) gauge 20 twisted copper wires painted flat black.

The TD M60 is working normally again, almost, but without the headlights. This is the 4th time that the headlight wires were broken off. Anyone else has this same problem? How did you fix it?

TD used gauge 26 wires for the headlights. The HL LEDs have no wire sticking out of the upper chassis plastic. The negative wire seems to be soldered to a tiny pad on the plastic. The positive wires were held together to the LED by a rubber sleeve. It came off several times. My attempt to glue it in place did not work. This last time, the negative wire broke off completely. Looking at the connections, I am out of idea on how to repair them.

It may sound like a backhanded criticizing of Tongde. I am really unhappy about the wire and LED connections. It sucks.

Yes, I can run the M60 without the headlights, but I expect better.

[keilau]

The Tongde US Marine M60A1 RC tank is back in working condition with a Heng Long TK-6.0S radio system I retired from a Leopard 2A6.

I have some minor finishing job with the M60. The towing cables that came with the tank is poorly implemented. I will replace them with bare (remove the nylon jacket) gauge 20 twisted copper wires painted flat black.

The M60 tow cable is 30 meters long, translates to 18.6 cm in 1/16 scale. I use test lead wires because they have very fine stranded wires and are more flexible. After removing the nylon jacket, I twisted the fine stranded wires tightly together. I tinned the bare wires to make them stronger. It is a mistake because tinning makes the wire too stiff to look realistic. I should have just use acrylic paint to hold the fine wires together.

The tow cable hood (plastic parts B7) has no hole to accommodate the cable and must be drilled out. I suggest using pin vise drill. If you must use a rotary tool, use only the slowest 500 rpm speed to avoid melting the plastic part. (Guess how I found out about the problem.)

The tow cable does not look very good due to the lose of flexibility by tinning. I installed the tow cable as it is on a M60 tank. You will see that it is very different from the Tongde manual pictures.

[keilau]

Before I go to the finishing step, I turned on the M60 to check it out. It came on for a few minutes and then went dead. No sound, no light. The battery is normal at 8 volts. The LED outputs are about 1 volt and unstable. The ESC output has no DC offset. I did not open the TDC-X multifunctional mainboard to see whether there is any burnt parts. But I did not smell anything.

I searched AliExpress and e-bay, but cannot find any spare TDC-X mainboard for sale. I received the TongDe US Patton M60A1 tank in early May, 2023. I don't know if there is any channel to request under warranty service. I will contact Nova Hobby to find out.

This TDC-X is the second dead mainboard I had. The last one was a Heng Long TK-5.3 quite a while ago.

Fortunately, the multifunctional mainboard is one thing that Tongde made compatable with Heng Long. I will borrow one board from one of my HL tanks to test the M60. I hope to confirm that the malfunction part is the mainboard only.

I report whatever happens to my RC tanks and do not imply that TD product is inferior.

I exchanged a few email with Nova Hobby about the TD M60 problem. Tongde has only a 30 days warranty. No chance of replacing the mainboard under warranty. Nova offered to sell me a replacement TDC-X for $52 shipped from Canada. I told them that I am using a HL TK-6.0S as surrogate. They confirmed that the HL board should work properly.

I have a working TD transmitter. The TDC-X board has servo support. My next project is the servo recoil/elevation of the HL 2A6. If I like the servo adaptation, I may get the TDC-X board for a second servo tank project.