Metal upgrade for a TongDe M60A1 to improve reliability

[RichJohnson]

The TongDe M60 needs a host of mechanical running upgrades and they are not for the average modeler. Your suggestion to add ball bearing to the road wheel and metal swing arm makes a huge difference to the mechanical running. But it will not be possible without the torsion bar bracket that you designed. Tongde used soft alloy for the metal swing arms. I give them credit for making precision fit for the industry standard ball bearings. The tight pressure fit of the 48 pieces of bearing makes the installation tricky. The strong resin brackets allow me to press hard on them during install. Once I got rid of the loose nylon rings of the suspension with ball bearings, it is a different running tank.


The Tongde plastic gearbox came with a long crack on the case. I got the metal gearbox, but was disappointed that the cases were made with soft alloy again. I replaced all the mounting M3 screw with hard steel ones. During work on the suspension, I had to remove and reinstall the gearbox. No matter how careful I was, I stripped one of the 6 screw threads on the gearbox. The standard 18mm M3 machine screw cannot be tightened and the 20mm screw is too long to fit. I have to customer made a 19mm screw to mount the gearbox securely.

Now, the TD M60 runs very well. But I am still scratching my head on how to fix the headlight LEDs.

I have to say I disagree with this quite a bit.
I sold all the brackets I had JVM make and didn’t have any when my tank arrived. They have not run any commercial projects with that material since so they have not been able to make any more for me.
I have done almost nothing to my m60. I bought a metal edition but run plastic tracks. All I did was file the back corner of the hull and the ledge on the curve of the hull to stop the track catching and jamming. I am careful backing up so I don’t overtwist the rear tortion arm and bar and yet I have driven the ever living crap out of my tank. I have driven it harder than any other tank I have and it’s the best running next to my super built Tamiya leopard 1 tanks however it is the most fun to run. The ground clearance is much higher than a leoaprd 1 and and it was way cheaper than the money I have in my leoaprd 1s.
I have done nothing else running gear wise and it just runs and runs. And like I said, I beat the crap out of it.

[Rubicon99]

If anyone is interested I have post a "long run" video of one of my M60s running around the San Diego tanks clubs battle field tearing up the dirt and hull. YouTube: Fsttanks1

The tank in the video is a metal edition on plastic tracks and has NO running gear modifications.

[MrChef]

If anyone is interested I have post a "long run" video of one of my M60s running around the San Diego tanks clubs battle field tearing up the dirt and hull. YouTube: Fsttanks1

The tank in the video is a metal edition on plastic tracks and has NO running gear modifications.

Just watched. Pretty impressive demo on varied and challenging terrain. Nice video as well. Looks like the only challenge was the steep hill near the end, then ya just took a different approach and finally churned your way to teetering on the top.

[keilau]

A couple of questions.

First did you replace the 2 stock nylon arm bushing with bearings? The bushing fit MUCH loser to the metal arms then bearings do. The bearing in all three of my M60s fit rather tightly compared to the stock nylon bushing.

Second did you replace the nylon wheel bushing with bearings? The bushings are under sized and the wheels "wobble" around quite a bit on their axles. The "wobble" actually will cause the axles if not properly tighten to unscrew and the wheel fall off. Tamiya uses a similar design wheel axle to arm setup on a number of their tanks and can have similar issue as the brass bushing wear. Hence why so many people replace the brass bushing with bearings. TD using loose fitting nylon(or plastic) bushing this happens from the start. Replacing the bushing with bearings will illuminate 90% or more of the issues caused by "wobbling". That said it does not rule out the arm could be a poorly molded / undersized arm. This not uncommon even with the metal stock and aftermarket HL arms. I have a drawer full of them that can attest to this.

Yes, the wheel axles can be a bit tight fitting onto TD arms. I had a few that were this way but managed to get everything settled and they are working very well. If the arm does not screw on completely then either it needs to be re-tapped or simply drilled out so the axle can fit in and be glued/fixed in place. Once done you should never have to deal with it again.

Fortunately the newest M60 have many of the "first run" issues worked out and are proving to be excellent running tanks. Keep at it because I know in the end you will have a great running tank.

I have one of the early plastic version TD M60A1. I found that the upgrade @Rubincon99 suggested here made a world of difference. Since I do the metal upgrade myself, I was able to align the arms and wheel axles individually. I have no experience with the later production metal version. Does it still use the nylon arm and wheel bushings? Or they are upgraded to precision bearings? If not, I will highly recommend that you do the bearing upgrade @Rubincon99 suggested.

The torsion bar suspension with metal arms does give the TD M60A1 an advantage over most plastic chassis Heng Long's.

[SoCalBobS]

As an experiment, I’ve been driving my M60 using the plastic gearbox, plastic tracks and only metal sprockets, on the same ground as R99’s. No problems to date, no but I have a metal gearbox waiting just in case. My only mishap was banging off the magnetically attached top hull when I went over and down that same steep hill!

[Rubicon99]

As an experiment, I’ve been driving my M60 using the plastic gearbox, plastic tracks and only metal sprockets, on the same ground as R99’s. No problems to date, no but I have a metal gearbox waiting just in case. My only mishap was banging off the magnetically attached top hull when I went over and down that same steep hill!

That banging scene👍👍 was cut from the video we did of all three M60 going over.

[RichJohnson]

Here is that video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_6r3Ckc8SQ

[no tanks just lookin]

Thanks for linking this, I just got one from Motion, plastic USMC ERA. After reading your comments about the axle screws, I decided to check mine, the threads are rolled, and not well done, once you do get it started maybe 4-5 turns before it's snug. Also, in the process of doing all that, my fat fingers dropped one of the bushings and rolled into the blackhole under the bench. Apparently bearings were to be my first upgrade, have the wheel bearings coming, $20 for sealed, once I get a good grasp of how the whole swing arm/torsion fits together, I'll get bearings for them as well.

I'm going to do something similar for a stop, but I'm just gluing a piece of plastic tube that's been split in half to the side of the hull extension because I'm lazy, if it would work I'd just yell stop at the thing when needed and continue to shoot bb's at squirrels from my driveway.

[MaverickTank]

I replaced the metal track with nylon, removed two track links, adjusted the tension, and have had ZERO wheel travel issues since.

[keilau]

I replaced the metal track with nylon, removed two track links, adjusted the tension, and have had ZERO wheel travel issues since.

Are you referring to the Tongde plastic track? The Tongde track is not nylon. Tongde intentionally make their track and sprocket off scale and thus incompatible with other brands. Where did you get the nylon track and sprocket for your mod?

[Rubicon99]

Are you referring to the Tongde plastic track? Tongde intentionally make their track and sprocket off scale and thus incompatible with other brands. Where did you get the nylon track and sprocket for your mod?

He is talking about swapping in TD plastic tracks. He already had the metal TD sprocket that comes with the upgraded tank.

The tracks and sprocket are slightly out of scale so that the tanks hull
could be "in scale" and fit off the shelf gearboxes. Its not a perfect solution to the problem of the narrow hull, but it is the most cost effective solution vs having to source small numbers of custom gearboxes and the increased price that follows.

The only other M60 made is by DKLM and they had a similar problem with the narrow hull and had to make gearbox drive shaft extensions in order to fit HL sprockets and tracks. These shaft extension are not overly durable, but the track is slightly more in scale. The DKLM M60 will set you back $1000 and that does not including an MFU and radio system.

[keilau]

He is talking about swapping in TD plastic tracks. He already had the metal TD sprocket that comes with the upgraded tank.

The tracks and sprocket are slightly out of scale so that the tanks hull
could be "in scale" and fit off the shelf gearboxes. Its not a perfect solution to the problem of the narrow hull, but it is the most cost effective solution vs having to source small numbers of custom gearboxes and the increased price that follows.

The only other M60 made is by DKLM and they had a similar problem with the narrow hull and had to make gearbox drive shaft extensions in order to fit HL sprockets and tracks. These shaft extension are not overly durable, but the track is slightly more in scale. The DKLM M60 will set you back $1000 and that does not including an MFU and radio system.

I am looking for an easy way to use the Tamiya Abrams tracks and HL metal sprockets on the Tongde M60A1 and so far no luck. The DKLMRC dual current M60 gearbox should work, but is out of stock and very expensive after shipping.

https://www.dklmrc.com/product/dk-fmpdsgb

[Rubicon99]

I am looking for an easy way to use the Tamiya Abrams tracks and HL metal sprockets on the Tongde M60A1 and so far no luck. The DKLMRC dual current M60 gearbox should work, but is out of stock and very expensive after shipping.
https://www.dklmrc.com/product/dk-fmpdsgb

Look at the same type by HL and TD. You want the 60ish long shaft version. I just installed a second one in another M60 last week was easier than the first one.

[keilau]

Look at the same type by HL and TD. You want the 60ish long shaft version. I just installed a second one in another M60 last week was easier than the first one.

I have been looking at the HL dual current gearbox. Should I get the H65MM or the L65MM one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285659988476

H65MM Gearbox 1/16 6.0S 6.1S 7.0 7.1 Mainboard Henglong Leopard2A6 RC Tank 3889 | eBay

[Rubicon99]

I have been looking at the HL dual current gearbox. Should I get the H65MM or the L65MM one?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285659988476

H65MM Gearbox 1/16 6.0S 6.1S 7.0 7.1 Mainboard Henglong Leopard2A6 RC Tank 3889 | eBay

Both should fit but I use the low versions.

[MaverickTank]

He is talking about swapping in TD plastic tracks. He already had the metal TD sprocket that comes with the upgraded tank.

The tracks and sprocket are slightly out of scale so that the tanks hull
could be "in scale" and fit off the shelf gearboxes. Its not a perfect solution to the problem of the narrow hull, but it is the most cost effective solution vs having to source small numbers of custom gearboxes and the increased price that follows.

The only other M60 made is by DKLM and they had a similar problem with the narrow hull and had to make gearbox drive shaft extensions in order to fit HL sprockets and tracks. These shaft extension are not overly durable, but the track is slightly more in scale. The DKLM M60 will set you back $1000 and that does not including an MFU and radio systeWoerm.

Yes, I meant the plastic track. Works awesome. I don't know anyone that would spot the inconsistencies with track width vs. the prototype, so I'm happy as a lark with the model as-is.

[Rubicon99]

Yes, I meant the plastic track. Works awesome. I don't know anyone that would spot the inconsistencies with track width vs. the prototype, so I'm happy as a lark with the model as-is.

The TD plastic track work great and are fairly durable by comparison to Heng Long plastic tracks and about even in durability to Tamiya's all nylon tracks. Those of us with multiple M60s always recommend plastic tracks over the super heavy "power sucking" metal tracks. Don't get me wrong the TD metal tracks are strong just really heavy.

I don't think the scale of the TD tracks is overly bad and I can live with it. I only modified the transmission type so I can run an even higher grade of dual pin tracks and two piece sprockets.

[keilau]

The TD plastic track work great and are fairly durable by comparison to Heng Long plastic tracks and about even in durability to Tamiya's all nylon tracks. I only modified the transmission type so I can run an even higher grade of dual pin tracks and two piece sprockets.

Yes, "an even higher grade of dual pin tracks" that runs more realistically. Changing over to the dual current gearbox will allow me to use the HL two piece sprockets.

The end result is only part of the fun in upgrading. The process is the most fun part.

[RichJohnson]

I run Tamiya Abrams tracks on my DKlM kit M60a3. The kits are expensive and you have to know how to tweak the kit to run just right as well as build the whole thing.
those Tamiya Abrams tracks are $250 by themselves. And the grip and traction they put on the ground is quite a lot. They don’t turn well on hard dirt or concrete.
I actually much prefer the TD plastic tracks on my TD m60s over the Abrams track on my DKlM m60a3

[keilau]

I run Tamiya Abrams tracks on my DKlM kit M60a3. The kits are expensive and you have to know how to tweak the kit to run just right as well as build the whole thing.
those Tamiya Abrams tracks are $250 by themselves. And the grip and traction they put on the ground is quite a lot. They don’t turn well on hard dirt or concrete.
I actually much prefer the TD plastic tracks on my TD m60s over the Abrams track on my DKlM m60a3

The Tongde M60A1 with the TD plastic tracks is an excellent runner on concrete or other pathed road, It runs poorly on the backyard lawn which is my primary RC tank playground. Probably result of poor traction.

On the other hand, my HL Leopard 2A6 with the 390 Heng Xin gearbox and Tamiya nylon track runs well on all surfaces.

I already have the Tamiya nylon tracks and HL Abrams sprockets ready for the TD M60. But need the right gearbox to use them on the TD M60.