Official Freewing B-2 Spirit Bomber 86" Twin 70mm EDF Jet

[Evan D]

It's not slop. It's more that the B-2 has wide main gear spacing and short main to nose spacing. It makes accurate steering alignment a bit picky. And just like all airplanes could benefit from a flight gyro all planes COULD benefit from a steering specific one. But just the same some may choose not to use one or the other in some aircraft...

[kallend]

You should give it a go as is. You may not have any ground tracking issues like a few of us. I think not everyone has this problem. No harm done if you do have problems. Just don't try to take off. Check out some of the early YouTube videos and decide for yourself.

My experience is that tracking problems appear, and get worse, as the landing gear wears and develops slop. FW retracts are quite poor in this respect, they very quickly develop wear in the trunnions. Some models seem more susceptible than others (for example, the Avanti S has a well deserved reputation for being squirrely on the ground).

Whenever I encounter a model that doesn't track well on the ground, I put an Assan in it. So far the Assan has cured all of them.

[Balsa Bob]

Thank you for the response/information !

[GliderGuy]

Hi Balsa Bob,

I operate off hard surface only. No departures from the “straight” has been my experience during take-off or landings….with an out of the box configuration for the nose gear set-up.

You should be safe to fly it as is.

Remember….Glide in w/o power, get it down to a few inches high then SLOW HER DOWN / hold her off before touching down. Landing with minimal energy is the key that I’ve learned from several hundred landings.

Don’t flare high or she may drop a wing as she slows down. Flare when about a foot high then descend to a few inches and HOLD HER OFF. She won’t drop a wing in ground effect. Sometimes she touches with me holding full up elevator….like a Cub! My CG is by the book.

Also, fly only in 5 mph winds or less if you want to avoid landing incidents.

This week has been amazing in north Texas. I’ve made several B-2 flights every day this week at sunrise in cool, crisp air and almost calm winds. I estimate 25 landings this week.

I launch 15 min before sunrise for the first flight. The strobes HELP! She looks like a UFO / UAV in the pre-sunrise sky. Such an awesome looking bird!

-GG

PS….Yawn! But this weather won’t last forever. Gotta take advantage of it.

PPS Now flying with SMC 6200 Graphine Extreme TruSpec LiPos. Great batteries! However, I got 14 months on the prior set of Admiral Pro 6000 batteries before I began to see indications of aging/use. Not bad! No complaints! And they got TONS** of use.

**Estimated 300 to 400 cycles per battery.
Use profile…FYI:
- Not flown below 50F unless warmed first
- max of 3600 to 4000 mAh consumed
- 70% (F-4) to 50% (B-2, AL37, PJ-50) mixed throttle flight profile with a little 100% during acrobatics
- Charge rate = 4 amps
- Aging signs = slight swelling, internal resistance increasing, and one battery refused to charge above 3.5 volts/cell
Not saying the above is gospel, but it seems to work.

[xviper]

Thanks again guys for the responses. Sounds like that Assan steering gyro is the way to go. I'm just not sure my impatience on waiting to get one will get the best of me and I'll try flying it before I get it ......

Thanks again.

You should give it a go as is. You may not have any ground tracking issues like a few of us. I think not everyone has this problem. No harm done if you do have problems. Just don't try to take off. Check out some of the early YouTube videos and decide for yourself.

[Evan D]

I don't have one in mine. I just corrected as needed. It will help to have it.

[Balsa Bob]

Thanks again guys for the responses. Sounds like that Assan steering gyro is the way to go. I'm just not sure my impatience on waiting to get one will get the best of me and I'll try flying it before I get it ......

Thanks again.

[xviper]

is regular rudder stick (nosewheel) movement not able to keep it tracking straight ?

I doubt it. It depends on how quick you are on the rudder and whether or not you have a tendency to over-correct. This plane has a very short wheelbase compared to its width. It can change direction extremely easily. Of the two of us who has this plane at our field, both of us had the sudden right angle turn on several take off attempts. The other person is a much more proficient flyer than I and he couldn't control the ground tracking either. It sometimes took 3 to 4 tries before we could get it off the ground without spinning. Since installing the Assan, mine has become a solid ground tracker every time. If you have a perfectly smooth runway and not crosswinds, you should be OK, but you'll have to find out for yourself. I'm sure the vast majority of people don't have any additional steering electronics but then, I think a lot of people don't fly their B-2 all that much anymore, for whatever reasons.

[kallend]

Thanks again for the response !
With the gyro intervention on the nosewheel being insufficient .... is regular rudder stick (nosewheel) movement not able to keep it tracking straight ?
Also, is using some Expo on elevator and aileron okay ? .... it won't mess up the gyro effectiveness will it ?

Thanks.

A gyro can recognize and apply a correction to a disturbance in about 20 milliseconds. The best human athletes have a reaction time around 120ms and the average adult is nearer to 300ms. In other words the gyro will have made around 15 corrective actions before you've even recognized that there is a problem.

A gyro has no way of knowing whether or not you have set up expo in your transmitter.

[Balsa Bob]

Thanks again for the response !
With the gyro intervention on the nosewheel being insufficient .... is regular rudder stick (nosewheel) movement not able to keep it tracking straight ?
Also, is using some Expo on elevator and aileron okay ? .... it won't mess up the gyro effectiveness will it ?

Thanks.

[xviper]

Thanks again xviper. Does the gyro provide corrective movement to just the nosewheel .... or to the drag rudders also ?

Both but the gyro intervention for the nose wheel is insufficient on some B-2s like the 2 at my field and on some YouTube videos when the plane first came out. The gyro on the drag rudders appears to be good - can't do anything about it anyway as I don't think you can dial it beyond 100%. Many of the control surface function on this plane is a result of some mixing within the control board and how the drag rudders finally interprets the gyro signal is a mystery to me. It is this reason that flying this plane as it comes is the best way to start. Messing with the gyro gain and even removing the control box has shown to be counter-productive and at times, be hazardous.

[Balsa Bob]

Thanks again xviper. Does the gyro provide corrective movement to just the nosewheel .... or to the drag rudders also ?

[xviper]

First of all, thank you all very much for the responses and information ! I may be overthinking it because I have also been reading the E52 Manual. In there (Page 7, Gain Settings) it says that 40-50 % basic gain setting is recommended for the first flight. I think what you are all telling me is that this is already programmed into the gyro that is in the B2 ???

On one if the positions of the 3-position switch I do get the steady red light ... which I believe is Basic Gain Mode. Do I have to do anything else .... can I just fly it ?

Thanks.

(I also set the control surfaces up per Jeremy's video).

That is correct. The stock gyro gain is 40% on the AIL, similar for ELE and 100% for RUD. The E-52 is trying to replicate a steering gyro on the front nose steering with the 100% but at least for me, this is still not enough and I've installed my own steering gyro (Assan). I and another B-2 flyer at my field both started out with the stock gyro and both of us experienced very poor ground tracking. Both of us had a very bad experience taking off in that the B-2 did not track straight and did a sudden and violent veering off course - a 90 degree turn that prompted an aborted take off. My friend didn't like this one bit and after flying his plane only a couple times, he sold it. I put on the Assan steering gyro and never again had a problem with ground tracking.
If you have a calm day and take off with a gradual increase in speed to take off speed, using low rate and some expo on the RUD, you will probably be OK but be prepared to abort the take off if it suddenly takes a turn. Flip back to high rate when airborne.

[Balsa Bob]

First of all, thank you all very much for the responses and information ! I may be overthinking it because I have also been reading the E52 Manual. In there (Page 7, Gain Settings) it says that 40-50 % basic gain setting is recommended for the first flight. I think what you are all telling me is that this is already programmed into the gyro that is in the B2 ???

On one if the positions of the 3-position switch I do get the steady red light ... which I believe is Basic Gain Mode. Do I have to do anything else .... can I just fly it ?

Thanks.

(I also set the control surfaces up per Jeremy's video).

[Evan D]

[xviper]

Right now I have the gyro on a 3-position switch ... in the up position I get a steady red (Basic Gain Mode) in the middle position I get a flashing red, and in the down position I get steady blue (Gyro Off). I had planned on flying in the up position (Basic Gain Mode) ? Is this okay ?

The manual recommends using 40 - 50 % basic gain setting for the first flight. How do I accomplish that ..... assign the gyro to a rotary knob instead of the 3-,position switch ?

Thanks.

Personally, I would NOT ever fly this plane with the gyro OFF or even reduced. You might also be advised to NOT use "attitude lock" as this is more for multi-copter and 3d aerobatics. On the B-2, attitude lock may turn out to be a very bad thing. If anything, you might want "auto level" but that can only be done using the E-52 programming box. You should get rid of the mode switch entirely - just too many things to get confused about and go wrong.
Which manual recommends 40 -50% gain? It's NOT the B-2 manual for sure. The manual for the gyro is a multi-purpose manual for all kinds of planes. This B-2 has the gyro pre-set at the factory and it's meant for the B-2 only in this case. You would be ill-advised to reduce the gain like that (see my previous reply). There is really nothing in the E-52 manual that you absolutely need for this plane. Most of it, you should file away for reference for some future model if you decide to remove the gyro from the B-2 and put it into some other plane. If you reduce the gains to 50% of stock, you will have a really bad day.
If you elect to go with "master gain" and assign it to the rotary knob, you MUST understand what this will do for you. The rotary knob can only reduce the gains that are set in the gyro. (This is how you can reduce the gain to 50% but you have been warned about this.) It CANNOT increase the gains beyond what it set. As I said before, this plane flies best with the stock gains as is. The ONLY reason you might want to reduce the gains is to stop any oscillations when doing a high speed, high throttle, diving run and the the plane begins to oscillate. The problem with this as I've already mentioned, is that if you forget to max out the gains before landing, your flight may end badly. The best solution if your B-2 begins to oscillate, is to slow it down a bit or don't go into a high speed run to begin with. Only a small handful of B-2's will oscillate at high speed. Most will not.

Oops, Evan beat me to it.

[Evan D]

Are you sure about the modes? Those are not the three modes that I (and others) have in the E52. I have Red solid- Basic Gain, Red Flashing Attitude lock and Blue/ Red Purple trainer mode. Left unplugged it's Red basic mode. I have tried the other modes and the Basis really the best setting.

The E52 instructions are general instructions for anyone buying a separate gyro, uninstalled. The 40-50% is not a recommendation for it in the B-2. It comes with settings already set in the gyro for the B-2. Do not over think it. If you do not add the gain control it is not at 100% of the gyro gain for any of the 3 axis, it is at rates FW decided to preinstall. If you do add the gain control you can adjust it from 0 to 100% of the preinstalled values, not 0 to 100% of what the gyro can do. I suggest leaving it at the preset values for your first flights and then experiment with reduced values only while in flight. Leave it max for take off and landing.

Right now I have the gyro on a 3-position switch ... in the up position I get a steady red (Basic Gain Mode) in the middle position I get a flashing red, and in the down position I get steady blue (Gyro Off). I had planned on flying in the up position (Basic Gain Mode) ? Is this okay ?

The manual recommends using 40 - 50 % basic gain setting for the first flight. How do I accomplish that ..... assign the gyro to a rotary knob instead of the 3-,position switch ?

Thanks.

[Balsa Bob]

Right now I have the gyro on a 3-position switch ... in the up position I get a steady red (Basic Gain Mode) in the middle position I get a flashing red, and in the down position I get steady blue (Gyro Off). I had planned on flying in the up position (Basic Gain Mode) ? Is this okay ?

The manual recommends using 40 - 50 % basic gain setting for the first flight. How do I accomplish that ..... assign the gyro to a rotary knob instead of the 3-,position switch ?

Thanks.

[xviper]

I've never used that clear vertical fin. So far, so good. I can't say what it would fly like with it on. However, I believe that if you elect to leave it off, it is important that you fly this plane with the stock gains almost all the time, especially during take offs and landings. If you have the gain on a rotary, it's important to remind yourself that it needs to be at max or near max during flight. I know that when I turned the gains down during flight to about 2/3rds (or so of max stock gain), the plane began to "wobble" (not to be confused with high gain oscillation). I don't know if the clear fin would have prevented it. The last time I had the gains reduced and forgot to max them out on landing, the B2 rolled in ground effect and cartwheeled. This may have been caused by me flying it in elevated crosswinds but it's hard to say since that was the same flight when the gains were reduced. I don't fly in any winds much above 5 mph (for the B2) and I never turn the gains down since that mishap and it has behaved and flown in a spectacular way. Who knows which of these factors, if any or if all, contributes to a good flight vs a bad flight. I'd rather not go through a process of elimination to find out.

[Evan D]

I can tell the difference but others have said they can't.