Official Freewing B-2 Spirit Bomber 86" Twin 70mm EDF Jet

[Model AV8R]

As we said in the video...and it would benefit anyone questioning what we are saying to actually watch the whole video as all this is explained in it...with our model there was no combination on the plugs the instructions tell you to reverse (elevator & aileron) that rendered the controls and mixes all working properly at the same time. We had to reverse our aileron and rudder in the TX to get everything working right. We did not reverse the elevator in the TX. The elevators are definitely correcting the wrong way, and yes it is hard to see...that is why we put our hand on the surface at the hinge point. You can feel which way it corrects as you pitch the plane. (good technique for any low gain, low deflection suface check). The ailerons...which also move in the pitch axis are correcting the right way. Had a buddy check his that had already flown it and his worked the same exact way. For what it is worth both his plane and ours flew fine like this. That info is in the video as well. Could have something to do with the minimal gain in that axis or that the ailerons correcting the right way in pitch cancels the error out...maybe both. The instructions say "if" those axis are reversed to "try" changing the plugs around. That could...and probably does mean not all of them may arrive programmed the same exact way...hence some of you may not need to reverse anything in your TX. Again...and you can see for yourself in the video...the plane flew fine. For what we plan to do with it it is a non issue (slower, scale), if you plan to fly yours more aggressively...might be an issue if yours is like ours.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hopefully not adding fuel to the fire, but the old Ar636 RX with gyro required you to program each servos direction in the RX only. If you did it in the TX, while you got the correct surface movements on your sticks, the gyro was correcting in the opposite direction, which resulted in many downed aircraft and p...off pilots. The new gyro RX'S did away with that allowing for direction programming to be done in the TX.

Wonder if the gyro in the B2 is that way as well, which would account for the different redults people are getting. As a final set up procedure, I still program 100% heading gains in 1 mode just to absolutely confirm gyro corrections, as it is difficult to be sure it's moving in the right direction with typical low rate gains only. Then I remove the heading gain completely and I'm finished. By doing this, I did find one RX ar636 that had it's internal orientation wrong. HH told me it's very rare, but does happen and I got the 1 in a thousand. If you can program heading hold using the programming card, that's a good way to confirm gyro correction since the surface moves and stays there instead of just fluttering for a millisecond.

[kallend]

Excellent video. The main takeaway I got was that the gyro, as delivered from the factory, is NOT setup correctly!

After fiddling around with the gyro in my B-2, (which I have not yet setup and flown), I have come to the conclusion that the elevator channel in the E52 is erroneously reversed. (No wonder they had to reduce the basic gain to 5% == essentially zero).

I am betting that once the elevator channel in the gyro is set to the correct direction (i.e. NORMAL == NOT REVERSED), then the elevator gain can be increased and the plane will fly MUCH better.

More likely the low pitch gain is due to the very low moment of inertia of the airframe about the pitch axis.

[Model AV8R]

That was my concern Hugh. That is why I called a buddy that had already flown his first to see what his TX set up was. Interestingly enough (and this is in the video) the two axis I reversed in my TX are correcting...correctly. Lol.

[Evan D]

Repeated from RCG...

I have to admit I don't watch videos. Sorry... I went and looked for the part you talked about the elevator being reversed and you say the ailerons are reacting correctly in pitch but the inboard elevators are not, correct? I need to pull mine down off the rack to verify but believe mine are all working right.

In your post you say that Bretts was also that way.

And it appears to me you are saying you are leaving it that way????

You also say that you think it's the E-52 causing it. That can not be as the flow is TX to RX to E-52 to mixing board. If the E-52 was the culprit then both the inner elevators and outer aileron would react the wrong way in unison. Since it's only the inner elevators it has to be the mixing board or the way they servos are in the output slots of the board.

[Model AV8R]

Answered on RCG Evan...

[Evan D]

Me too. I did verify on mine both inner and outer are moving and reacting the correct way. I also noted I have aileron, elevator and rudder all reversed in my TX.

[ridgerunner]

After more testing, I have discovered that everything I originally stated in my previous post regarding the elevator channel in the gyro being erroneously reversed is wrong! The testing I initially performed (where I jumped to the wrong conclusions) was done using plain servos outside the B-2 bypassing the control board. I've since connected everything up to the B-2 as specified in the manual and all gyro corrections are now moving in the correct direction. My sincere apologies for having yelled FIRE in a crowded theater when there was indeed no fire.

I have edited my original post.

Now I'm off to take a time out and go hide out in shame

[GliderGuy]

It’s OK RR….You got me off the fence, and I ordered a programming card. LOL

-GG

[Radar-Guy]

Some information for EU customers (had a brief chat with EU CS)
ETA for B-2 spare parts is July!!!

[TwistedGrin]

55mm wheels deployed on the Stinger 90mm main gear struts.....stuffed in some dense foam to provide a firmer spring and travel stop in the Oleo's. Went to a slightly larger nose wheel configuration also 55mm wheels. Did a taxi test on our grass runway (No take off in the 20-25mph winds).....ran up and down just fine no issue. Cut out relief slots in the gear doors to allow 100% closed position. All Clear!! Good for maiden on Friday

TwistedGrin

[Tom]

Some information for EU customers (had a brief chat with EU CS)
ETA for B-2 spare parts is July!!!

I'm so sorry. I know it is super frustrating. I always order the spare parts with the plane in order to avoid this situation with a new plane. Normally the spare parts ship with the plane but that did not happen with the shipment to our EU location this time. The spare parts are on the water but I don't have an exact ETA just yet. July is the "safe" answer. Lately, a shipment can take 6 weeks or 3 months. I've asked the freight company for an accurate (as possible) ETA and I'll let you know if I hear anything better than July.

[Radar-Guy]

I'm so sorry. I know it is super frustrating. I always order the spare parts with the plane in order to avoid this situation with a new plane. Normally the spare parts ship with the plane but that did not happen with the shipment to our EU location this time. The spare parts are on the water but I don't have an exact ETA just yet. July is the "safe" answer. Lately, a shipment can take 6 weeks or 3 months. I've asked the freight company for an accurate (as possible) ETA and I'll let you know if I hear anything better than July.

Thanks, Tom!

[GliderGuy]

Here is our latest episode...of course on the B-2!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9NqLPhYn2A

Hi Model AV8R,

***Up front I will state that in no way am I attempting to tell anyone how to fly. ***. Everyone has a style!

Only…proposing the physics as FOOD FOR THOUGHT and for consideration. The below is based upon years of BOTH full scale and RC aircraft and sailplane experience and from helping pilots learn how to fly.

Here goes….It is noticed in the video that the throttle is being pulsed a great deal during the last part of the approach to landing.

Consider that every control or throttle input does impact the energy of the system. The pilot must then react to this change in the energy of the system. Sometimes the pilot must “undo” what he just commanded. Sometimes the pilot must do MORE than he just did. Regardless, the aircraft’s energy/attitude will change with EVERY control input.

Flight instructors harp on being smooth on the controls. Both in the sense of DON’T DO ANYTHING if things are going well, and if you do anything….make your inputs smooth and make sure the input is needed.

Said another way…pumping a control constantly is constantly changing the energy and/or attitude of the system to which the pilot must then constantly make adjustments. This can lead to a DIVERGENT stability situation as the pilot inevitably will “get behind” the aircraft and make things worse. Hard landings or a go-around generally is the result.

Sometimes the landing works out just fine….lucky pilot. But, what if a throttle pulse just happens the instant before the mains touch? Unlucky pilot now has his hands full.

So consider that continuous throttle pulsing on approach “might not” be a good thing. Again, not telling anyone how to fly, but offering information for consideration just as I do for full scale pilots to whom I am giving flight instruction.

Also, sometimes a gust and loss/gain of airspeed can require a rapid and massive throttle / control input to “save it”. Yep….sometimes one’s gotta do what one’s gotta do. This situation isn’t what this post is about.

I flew the B-2 multiple times today at sunrise in light winds. Not saying this is the only / right way, but presented for consideration. Once on final, about 15% power was set. When about 4-6 feet up, the throttle was brought to ZERO. She settles down through ground effect so nicely and gently to the mains as the up elevator stick <I.e., amount of nose up control stick movement> is gradually increased as needed to keep the descent rate steady then increased to the amount needed to hold her off to touchdown.

Since the energy of the system is gradually decreasing, pilot control inputs can be smooth and gradual….no pulsing energy system to counteract or deal with.

Flying in gusty conditions…one does what’s necessary. But even still, anything the pilot does that ISN’T needed only makes the overall situation more difficult.

-GG

[kallend]

Hi Model AV8R,

***Up front I will state that in no way am I attempting to tell anyone how to fly. ***. Everyone has a style!

Only…proposing the physics as FOOD FOR THOUGHT and for consideration. The below is based upon years of BOTH full scale and RC aircraft and sailplane experience and from helping pilots learn how to fly.

I also have years of experience as both full-scale and R/C power and sailplane pilot, and a PhD in physics, and I agree 100% with what you wrote.

The only situation I know in aviation where pumping controls is recommended is skydiving, where if a parachute is only partially open, pumping the brake lines can sometimes persuade it to open all the way..

[Aros]

GliderGuy that is excellent analysis without being critical. Very well done! I am going to use your synopsis on approach as the way I am going to land her on my maiden. Bravo Zulu!

[Tom]

Update on B-2 parts for the EU. I talked to the freight company today and the ETA to our Netherlands location is about mid June. It will take a few days to put everything away and then put the spare parts in stock. That said, I'm a little worried their tracking may be overly optimistic but I'm hoping they know more than I do about freight 😉

[Model AV8R]

Hi Model AV8R,

***Up front I will state that in no way am I attempting to tell anyone how to fly. ***. Everyone has a style!

Only…proposing the physics as FOOD FOR THOUGHT and for consideration. The below is based upon years of BOTH full scale and RC aircraft and sailplane experience and from helping pilots learn how to fly.

Here goes….It is noticed in the video that the throttle is being pulsed a great deal during the last part of the approach to landing.

Consider that every control or throttle input does impact the energy of the system. The pilot must then react to this change in the energy of the system. Sometimes the pilot must “undo” what he just commanded. Sometimes the pilot must do MORE than he just did. Regardless, the aircraft’s energy/attitude will change with EVERY control input.

Flight instructors harp on being smooth on the controls. Both in the sense of DON’T DO ANYTHING if things are going well, and if you do anything….make your inputs smooth and make sure the input is needed.

Said another way…pumping a control constantly is constantly changing the energy and/or attitude of the system to which the pilot must then constantly make adjustments. This can lead to a DIVERGENT stability situation as the pilot inevitably will “get behind” the aircraft and make things worse. Hard landings or a go-around generally is the result.

Sometimes the landing works out just fine….lucky pilot. But, what if a throttle pulse just happens the instant before the mains touch? Unlucky pilot now has his hands full.

So consider that continuous throttle pulsing on approach “might not” be a good thing. Again, not telling anyone how to fly, but offering information for consideration just as I do for full scale pilots to whom I am giving flight instruction.

Also, sometimes a gust and loss/gain of airspeed can require a rapid and massive throttle / control input to “save it”. Yep….sometimes one’s gotta do what one’s gotta do. This situation isn’t what this post is about.

I flew the B-2 multiple times today at sunrise in light winds. Not saying this is the only / right way, but presented for consideration. Once on final, about 15% power was set. When about 4-6 feet up, the throttle was brought to ZERO. She settles down through ground effect so nicely and gently to the mains as the up elevator stick <I.e., amount of nose up control stick movement> is gradually increased as needed to keep the descent rate steady then increased to the amount needed to hold her off to touchdown.

Since the energy of the system is gradually decreasing, pilot control inputs can be smooth and gradual….no pulsing energy system to counteract or deal with.

Flying in gusty conditions…one does what’s necessary. But even still, anything the pilot does that ISN’T needed only makes the overall situation more difficult.

-GG

Hey thanks for that. Basically you are right on. A more stabilized approach.

With EDF's it is always a good idea to set the angle of attack and set a bit of throttle rather than let it sink power off and catch it with throttle. I land my A-4, Habu 32X, and F-16 using a stabilized approach. One of the many things that was different here for me is I didn't stall it on the maiden...I learn a lot when I do this but was hesitant to try it with the B-2. I had no idea how slow it would get, and it floated...until it didn't.

I am also a 3D pilot...there is the one flying skill set/genre where throttle pulsing comes in handy in many situations when you are post stall. I sometimes revert back to that if I'm slightly under the gun so to speak. Pulsing the throttle isn't the right way to land anything really unless like you say you're fighting strong, gusty winds. (See our Flying Cowboys carbon Cub video...whew). You saw the extent of my experience with the B-2. Three flights total...two on camera. It will get better...its not even fully set up to my liking yet.

We had some circumstances that I didn't handle properly. The fog demanded a much tighter approach than I would have preferred, I was working with a different camera person than I'm used to, and we had a time constraint as our camera man only had a short window of availability. I had my hands full and to be honest had too much of my focus on getting the footage and not enough on flying. If you watch our other videos I can land better than that I promise...Lol. I wasn't pleased with the landings, but luckily I can react quickly to what the plane is doing when I've reverted into 3D mode. Still though...should have been in Jet mode. I talked with my buddy Brent and he reminded me of the right technique and that throttle with the B-2 changes pitch some...its slight but its there. I already plan to use the correct approach next time. It also taught me a lesson when filming. With a lot of planes things just happen correctly automatically...its second nature to me. When the rare plane comes along like the B-2 that I have no reference of experience with...I HAVE to be focused squarely on the flying, not the filming. Luckily, usually the circumstances are different when we film.

For what its worth...learned to fly full scale at 16. I get what you're saying and I appreciate you taking the time to do it and make sure I saw it. Helping others is the best part of the hobby to me. You caught me red handed...I screwed up those approaches - not because I don't know the right way to execute it, but because I was focused on the wrong thing. I too help and instruct a ton of people. I always say the best instructors remain humble students. If we ever let ourselves believe we know it all, we should no longer teach. I appreciate your lesson. Your students are lucky to have you. Happy flying my friend.

[SanExup]

There is as much value in the debrief as there is in flying the plane. Thanks guys for the discussion and the analysis, and for the flight reports and observations. And thanks Model AV8R for the video. It's informative and the flights were great even though you felt cramped by the fog, it was very cool. At least from the comfortable perspective of the viewer. Your video is great. And to see your quick reactions to the bounce with the throttle up and go around is a huge service to those of us who haven't flown it yet.(wind and snow) It's one thing to imagine what your plan is and what that go around looks like, but it's not a large window of opportunity, so to see you and the B2 execute them well with authority is extremely valuable. Thanks! Great maiden flights!

[ochoaoctavio89@icloud.com]

I am happy to report I have the perfect color match for this B-2. The guy at Home Depot NAILED IT. I can't even see where he put the test dab on the hatch. It's that good.

Here's the lid...

This color is on point I had them make me one prefect match.