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Official Freewing B-2 Spirit Bomber 86" Twin 70mm EDF Jet

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  • Sorry but for some a few flights does equal or better some people that puts in lots of flights. I am not saying that conclusions you have made are right or wrong, just that there are people that can come to a quicker conclusion on how something performs and things to do to it to make it better. Even with only those six flights I haven't heard a single disagreement with my conclusions on how the B-2 flys.

    Same with understanding that there may be better ways to set up a plane VS the book without even flying it, simple things like instead of reducing travel in your radio to get proper throws, moving the push rod in on the servo (or out on the horn) to get better leverage and mechanical advantage. Experience flying many different types of aircraft and being able to predict how it will fly and react to changes you may decide to make is a valuable skill.

    But I'm glad you are enjoying your plane and racking up the flights. Yesterday I really enjoyed my F-86 both LOS and FPV and had a great time with a good thermal glider. It would not have been as good a day if I'd taken the Spirit even though it was perfect wind to fly it.

    Comment


    • Then….

      We agree to disagree!

      -GG

      Comment


      • Actually, I think we have both come to the same conclusions on the B-2. With that in mind you have decided to continue to fly it and I have decided not to.

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        • And one conclusion based on minimal experience with the bird and postings that follow from it potentially needlessly impacts sales and maybe future decisions to bring us new toys and one conclusion supports decisions for future developments.

          That’s my whole point.

          -GG

          Comment


          • That wasn't my point. But, and this is just a discussion... Sales are going to be driven by many factors. I think over the years I have also helped FW and Motion sell planes. Many times an aircraft comes out and my comments or people watching it fly have resulted in sales. Not to mention the hundreds of planes, tens of thousands of dollars I myself have spent. And if someone has something derogatory to say (even if it's false) who is any one to say they can't or shouldn't say it. Especially if it's true. Especially today, the day before Independence Day.

            I don't see the difference between the same conclusion reached based on a single flight or a thousand. Either way the decision could be flawed or have uncertainties in the process. And why shouldn't we let people know about the bad as well as the good experiences we have as well as things we do, or don't do, to make things better? With your train of thought Ford should still be producing the Edsel and Chevy the Corvair. And everyone should put chokes in all their RC aircraft... :)



            But you and I have reached the same conclusion???

            "And one conclusion based on minimal experience with the bird and postings that follow from it potentially needlessly impacts sales and maybe future decisions to bring us new toys and one conclusion supports decisions for future developments."

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Evan D View Post
              I think it's great some are flying and enjoying this. I think it's awesome that Tom is FPVing his. That takes guts.
              Thanks Evan, but the only thing challenging about flying the B-2 FPV is the landing and I think I have sorted that out very well.

              That being said, I have come to the conclusion (after doing a bit of a geometry study on the stock model and flight testing my changes) that there are some basic design flaws with the model. Typically the main landing gear of any nose gear aircraft should be positioned 15 degs behind the CG of the aircraft (proper CG, horizontal AND vertical). This position is a compromise of good ground handling, without requiring huge up elevator to rotate the aircraft. This model is a whopping 26 degs! This has the effect of slamming the nose gear down hard when touching on the mains at anything less than a greaser. The energy in the spring then drives the nose back into the air creating sufficient AOA to make the model fly again.

              I think this is why the stock model sits slightly "positive" on the ground so that it will "fly-off" with sufficient speed. You can see this in many of the videos posted from both grass and tarmac. Moving the main gear fwd (only can be done significantly by going to a single or double main gear), reducing the nose gear spring stiffness and shortening the nose gear strut to reduce the on ground AOA all have contributed to model that now "sticks" the landing at quite varying speeds and sink rates.

              for those who have not seen my videos, they are here:
              https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCz4...9egIuk-d4Tbi1A

              thanks, Tom

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              • I agree 100% Tom. I saw your postings on the other site yesterday. 100% agreement.

                And yes most of my "issue" with this plane is the landing. I think it's a wonderful flyer and looks spectacular in the air. And the reason I say kudos to you FPV'ing it is that the landing is the hard part with any FPV plane.

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                • They should have chosen an Avro Vulcan for a big jet bomber. Much more predictable, no weird controls needed, equally impressive appearance, better choice of color schemes, aerobatic. . . .

                  Just not American.

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                  • I can't disagree John, but any manufacturer could make similar mistakes that make any phase of flight difficult or impossible. Could easily happen to someone making a Vulcan too. In the case of this plane I think FW got it 99% right and that with a little beta testing and modification it can be made better. Of course, as noted, another choice is to fly it only on days that are perfect weather wise, or the choice of not buy it or if you do buy it not to do further flights or sell it. All valid choices.

                    I see the discussion of the MiG's issues has resurfaced...

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                    • Absolutely / valid shortcomings based upon repeatable results (many flights and many PIREPS) need to be discussed and hopefully solved. Take the MiG-29 as a prime example.

                      I have learned a ton from postings!

                      -GG

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                      • How "sales are impacted" for Motion is the last consideration for me when posting here, in spite of the fact that this is a MotionRC platform. They have already stated that they welcome content related to other brands and to other sellers. I would like to think that opinions and view points, good or BAD for a Motion product, should be equally acceptable, so long as it's NOT motivated by hate or fanboi-ism. Although I do like and support Motion in many ways, there are times that truth and honesty will prevail over any perceived loyalty. Worrying about impacting sales and posting accordingly is, in itself, deceitful. People will see that a mile away.
                        Remember, first impressions are also relevant and are oft-times a thing that potential customers want to see. These car shows we see on TV do it all the time and even their so-called "long term" tests are held in restraint due to the relationship the show producers have with the manufacturers of the cars they are loaned.

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                        • Xviper and Evan,

                          I know….I know. And I am only an MRC customer w/o any affiliation.

                          I read some of the negatives being said about the B-2 vs my personal experience and want to present the more positive side backed up by many flights of experience. I’m also having a LOT of fun flying the B-2 and would hope others don’t miss out as long as they are willing to live with the prior stated restrictions.

                          I feel we are beating a dead horse, now.

                          -GG

                          Comment


                          • Had my 6th and 7th FPV flights yesterday. Very nice. Model does require some back stick to come unglued during take-off, but it's not a lot or an issue. Model now stays landed when gear touchdown. No more bouncing back into the air and dragging a wingtip to a cartwheel!

                            enjoy

                            Tom
                            6th and 7the B-2 flights by FPV on a beautiful July 4th morning 2022.Getting more used to the model now. landings are now a non-issue with the new gear plac...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TH95147 View Post
                              Had my 6th and 7th FPV flights yesterday. Very nice. Model does require some back stick to come unglued during take-off, but it's not a lot or an issue. Model now stays landed when gear touchdown. No more bouncing back into the air and dragging a wingtip to a cartwheel!

                              enjoy

                              Tom
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InV1vnGB0io
                              Very nice....but this isn't exactly the plane you would want for "sight seeing".

                              Comment


                              • Another tip….main gear:

                                As noted in a prior post, it is necessary after some use to dry lubricate the main gear truck assemblies to ensure things slide and pivot as needed for complete retraction without issues.

                                Today, the left main stopped retracting fully and a post-flight shot of lube on the truck DID NOT correct the problem. Hmmmmmm! Flew the rest of the morning gear down.

                                On the bench at home, the problem was discovered to be the main gear spring action “oleo-like” inner slide shaft was frozen about 1/4 inch compressed….the inner slide shaft was not fully extending (nor sliding at all).

                                This mucked up the 2-spring truck geometry and prevented the full retraction.

                                Solution / prevention:

                                Remove the inner sliding shaft lightly sand/polish (220+ grit) smooth and lubricate the inner sliding shaft. Make sure the sliding inner shaft is sliding without binding and is fully extending without weight applied.

                                If you haven’t lubricated the main gear’s inner sliding shafts, you may want to. Make sure the inner shaft slides without binding. Once it binds up (at any position than fully extended), it will muck up the retraction process. It may potentially impact the behavior post touch down.

                                Happy B-2 flying.


                                -GG

                                Comment


                                • Gg. Because of my environment where I fly I took apart the oleos and loaded them up with PTFE lube. I I also did the same with the Jack screw in the retract

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                                  • Originally posted by radfordc View Post

                                    Very nice....but this isn't exactly the plane you would want for "sight seeing".
                                    Agreed. I have other models for sightseeing like my new durafly gloster Gladiator, And my venerable opterra 1.2 m

                                    I did this model because of the challenge!

                                    Comment


                                    • Hi everyone,

                                      I've been reading through several pages of this thread for the B-2 and there's a lot to digest here. I do currently fly the AL 37 and a Viper 90mm jet and was considering the B-2 as my next purchase. My flying field is a grass runway which is mowed weekly and is very low almost like a putting green with no bumps. For those of you that currently own this jet, could you summarize your thoughts/ opinions and provide a summary of the good and the bad?

                                      Thanks!

                                      LT

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by lt1pwr View Post
                                        Hi everyone,

                                        I've been reading through several pages of this thread for the B-2 and there's a lot to digest here. I do currently fly the AL 37 and a Viper 90mm jet and was considering the B-2 as my next purchase. My flying field is a grass runway which is mowed weekly and is very low almost like a putting green with no bumps. For those of you that currently own this jet, could you summarize your thoughts/ opinions and provide a summary of the good and the bad?

                                        Thanks!

                                        LT
                                        Hi LT,
                                        Flying only in 5 mph winds or less will extend the longevity w/o landing incidents. There are videos of landings in windy conditions, but wind drastically increase the chances of a botched landing!

                                        She is a LOT of fun to fly and flies very well. I have several hundred flights to base this opinion on.

                                        To minimize the chance for a cartwheel landing or a crow hop that will do nose gear servo damage, get her about 6 in off the ground then hold her off as long as possible….land with MINIMUM speed. If you land with anything more than MINIMUM energy, you may have problems.

                                        Touch down mains first….not nose wheel first.

                                        The factory CG is fine.

                                        She is a crowd pleaser!

                                        I don’t have grass experience.

                                        -GG

                                        Comment


                                        • Though I only have six B-2 flights under my belt I agree with GG on everything he said. My six flights were five on my first one, a cartwheel landing due to trying to fly in a crosswind and then one flight on it rebuilt with all new foam parts.

                                          If you fly only when there is no wind or a very light breeze exactly down the runway and are very gentle with your landing you'll have a great time with the B-2, Take offs and flying are not a problem at all. Just the landings...

                                          I also fly off pavement. I no longer fly my B-2, after the one flight for check out after the rebuild I have hung it up (and also listed it for sale).


                                          There is a person who has made some bits to modify the angle the main wheels (trucks) are canted. That may help. Also many have changed to a single main wheel when flying off grass, may be a good idea.



                                          Originally posted by GliderGuy View Post

                                          Hi LT,
                                          Flying only in 5 mph winds or less will extend the longevity w/o landing incidents. There are videos of landings in windy conditions, but wind drastically increase the chances of a botched landing!

                                          She is a LOT of fun to fly and flies very well. I have several hundred flights to base this opinion on.

                                          To minimize the chance for a cartwheel landing or a crow hop that will do nose gear servo damage, get her about 6 in off the ground then hold her off as long as possible….land with MINIMUM speed. If you land with anything more than MINIMUM energy, you may have problems.

                                          Touch down mains first….not nose wheel first.

                                          The factory CG is fine.

                                          She is a crowd pleaser!

                                          I don’t have grass experience.

                                          -GG

                                          Comment

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