Official Freewing B-2 Spirit Bomber 86" Twin 70mm EDF Jet

[GliderGuy]

Yes to all the above and careful with the nose high or you'll drag those drag rudders. Hmm. good name for them.

Hi Evan….Interesting. Never considered that.

While I end up slow and with a lot of nose up stick, she typically just barely touches mains first….slightly nose high. Maybe my CG is farther forward than yours.

I am slightly nose heavy when lifted on the CG mark. Admiral Pro 6000, and the battery aft end sits a little aft of the aft end of the battery shelf…Like James’ video.

Where are you balanced? Good point to bring up!

-GG

[Evan D]

Yes to all the above and careful with the nose high or you'll drag those drag rudders. Hmm. good name for them.

[Aros]

Duly noted! My new club does have a nice paved runway but it's not especially long so I will make sure I am deadstick by the time I hit the threshold. Hope to maiden her in the next few weeks weather-permitting.

[GliderGuy]

Sure sounds to me that this girl is a Dead Stick lander. Chop the throttle at base or so and continue to bleed off the airspeed with elevator until she plops unceremoniously onto terra firma. Thanks for the tip!

Or….more like 15% power on final to about 4 ft high, then smoothly decrease to ZERO power and glide her in.

If you have a short runway, you will reduce to ZERO power just short of the threshold and glide over the threshold.

NO PLOPS!!!! CRITICAL!!! NO PLOPS…smooth landings without bouncing. It can be done! She does it nicely!

-GG

[Aros]

Sure sounds to me that this girl is a Dead Stick lander. Chop the throttle at base or so and continue to bleed off the airspeed with elevator until she plops unceremoniously onto terra firma. Thanks for the tip!

[GliderGuy]

I totally agree with previous comments to bring it in as slowly as possible and hold it off at idle power just above the runway.

Davegee

Hi Davegee-

Be careful! You cannot have both “IDLE POWER” and “MINIMAL ENERGY”. These are mutually exclusive.

Best to hold her off with ZERO power as long as you can while only a few inches high. Any throttle amount adds energy.

Bring it in like a glider! You can make VERY smooth landings without any power. BUT….you gotta work at it and practice. No need to drop her in. In fact DON’T!

Yes, you can make very smooth, minimal energy landings from a few inches high without bouncing. You don’t want a bounce. Land her like a full scale Piper Cub and NO power. She’s not your average high wing loading EDF jet that needs power to landing.

It’s a learned skill. Ask any RC or full scale glider pilot.

-GG

Edit: With my CG (slightly nose heavy when lifted on the marks), she touches slightly mains first…slightly nose high even with a lot of nose up elevator. Courtesy of the slow airspeed, of course.

[xviper]

Had a chance to play with the gyro gains with the programmer. I dialed the AIL gain down to 35% to avoid any possible osciilation on a full throttle shallow dive - no hint of oscillation. Turned the ELE gain to 20% and the thing did the whale fluke slap dance at moderate speeds. Turned it down with master gain to about 50% (10% actual gain) - osciilation still evident. Turned it down to about 35% (~7% actual) - oscillation gone. Turned RUD gain down to 50% actual and that did absolutely nothing, so turned it up to 75% and that seemed to work appropriately (some drag brake movement when model it yawed manually). Since I'm using the Assan steering gyro, I don't really need the RUD gain set to 100%, which is used mainly needed for steering gyro on the stock plane. The Assan is a much better steering gyro as it dumbs down the stick inputs while maintaining instant correction AND mushy return to center. I beleive it's the sudden hurky jerky left/right gyro response and return to center that can cause this plane to do a sudden 90 degree course change.
I can see now why the stock ELE gain setting of 5% is what it is. They did the tests well and that's what it needs to be. Even the AIL gain of 40% should be fine unless you really "crank it" in a dive. Other than the nose steering being controlled by the high RUD gain, Freewing did a great job at setting the gyro. My final conclusion is that getting a programmer just to mess with the gains is really unnecessary. I guess I can use it for future E52 gyro purchases.
Fly it as is. It won't get any better with a programmer.

[davegee]

Agree GG, but for me wind absolutely straight down the runway (paved) and no more than a light wisp. This plane is just too expensive for me to risk anything else.

I'm with you, Evan. I have very tight constrictions on flying weather for putting this plane up in the air!

[davegee]

Agree - it had too much energy even though it was a smooth touch down and flat wings level touchdown. Have to learn where that speed window is for these landings.....slower than you might think is the preference I would advise for us!

Slower than slow works - LOL

TwistedGrin

I got my second flight (total of three when another did the initial maiden) this morning. This flight was done in almost no wind, and the landing was smooth but it did bounce very slightly several times as it went over our very rough runway. I'm wondering if I brought it in just a little slower and holding it off in a nose high attitude a bit longer, if that might help. Not sure it would, but I'll try to use that technique next flight. I'm still thinking had it been on a very smooth surface, it wouldn't have had those little hops.

I totally agree with previous comments to bring it in as slowly as possible and hold it off at idle power just above the runway. And, although I haven't had to do a go around yet, if I botch a landing, I will definitely go around and try again. It appears from many others trying to salvage a bad landing is just going to lead to a lot of pain!

Davegee

[TwistedGrin]

Hi TwistedGrin….

Perfect example. If she can lift after touchdown, the energy at touchdown is FAR too high.

Not to critique anyone’s flying….she still had a lot of energy at touchdown. Hence the lift-off and cartwheel.

Note: A greased-on landing at high energy still has the potential to bite you!

This bird DEMANDS minimal touchdown energy for success. Work hard to hold her off inches above the ground. Like you wouldn’t even believe you can. But….YOU CAN! She has plenty of elevator authority at low speed in ground effect.

So glad you didn’t get more damage. I have certainly had to repair mine a couple of times (nose gear) while learning.

-GG

Agree - it had too much energy even though it was a smooth touch down and flat wings level touchdown. Have to learn where that speed window is for these landings.....slower than you might think is the preference I would advise for us!

Slower than slow works - LOL

TwistedGrin

[GliderGuy]

Hi TwistedGrin….

Perfect example. If she can lift after touchdown, the energy at touchdown is FAR too high.

Not to critique anyone’s flying….she still had a lot of energy at touchdown. Hence the lift-off and cartwheel.

Note: A greased-on landing at high energy still has the potential to bite you!

This bird DEMANDS minimal touchdown energy for success. Work hard to hold her off inches above the ground. Like you wouldn’t even believe you can. But….YOU CAN! She has plenty of elevator authority at low speed in ground effect.

So glad you didn’t get more damage. I have certainly had to repair mine a couple of times (nose gear) while learning.

-GG

Edit With my CG (slightly nose heavy when lifted on the marks), she touches slightly mains first…slightly nose high even with a lot of nose up elevator. Courtesy of the slow airspeed, of course.

[TwistedGrin]

Grass operations.....if you have short nap well manicured grass - the stock 4truck main gear configuration will most likely work better with lighter smaller mAh Lipo. Landings with the stock landing gear should be ubra easy since the stock landing gear has so much drag. On the other hand.....single wheel mains make for an easy take off but landings will require a delicate balance of speed and angle of attack nose up for touch down.

Looking back at my maiden video I held off and played the ground effect as long as I could.....but it still had enough energy to bounce and crash. The single mains roll much easier and therefore does NOT slow down the bird like the stock version eight wheels would do.

I thought I had a greased landing and would enjoy a nice roll out....but it lifted and bounced. Looks to me you do NOT want a roll out....best if the vehicle can nearly stop within a few inches of touch down .....this means come in as slow as possible on single wheel modified form factor on the landing gear.

TwistedGrin

[GliderGuy]

While I am at it….

EVERYBODY check the guide screws on your main gear. The set screw that keeps the mains tracking straight…the screw in the spring slot.

I suggest removing these and adding lock-tight or some Foam-Tac on the threads and retighten the screw on each main.

One fell out on my bird. Thank goodness on taxi out. She’s a wonky bird when the main can swivel around. LOL

-GG

[GliderGuy]

Agree GG, but for me wind absolutely straight down the runway (paved) and no more than a light wisp. This plane is just too expensive for me to risk anything else.

Evan…Great point! Thanks…I missed that. Cross winds are not happy winds!

-GG

[Evan D]

Agree GG, but for me wind absolutely straight down the runway (paved) and no more than a light wisp. This plane is just too expensive for me to risk anything else.

[GliderGuy]

That AOA would scare me and i really don't know sh*t about this stuff yet compared to the rest of you... but maybe the reason she bounces wildly on take-off and landing...?

I admire you guys jumping in both feet with this plane - it's a handful I'm sure... way beyond my scope and ability currently...

Well……The pucker factor rises on final. I won’t lie. BUT successful landings are getting more numerous for me (several hundred flights to date). I love flying the B-2!

Lessons learned for what it is worth…..

It boils down to this - If you SLOW HER DOWN, you you increase the chance of success TREMENDOUSLY!!!!!

EXTRA ENERGY IS THE BOOGIE MAN!

Almost every time I land with extra energy, it ends up in a bounced/go-around or a bouncing / go-around.

Pretty much every landing done at MINIMAL energy is a happy success. I repeat….LOW ENERGY TOUCHDOWN = SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!

Take off is a non-issue (on pavement). Hold a touch of nose up elevator, and she lifts off nice and scale and climbs out nicely.

1) SLOW DOWN ON FINAL!!!
2) Then HOLD HER OFF as long as possible a few inches up by adding more and more nose up elevator as she slows down in ground effect….bleed the energy off….bleed the ENERGY off!!!! Don’t let her touch!
3) Touch down with MINIMAL energy, finally.
4) She sticks like glue and CANNOT go wonky on you.

Hard to believe how slow in ground effect she gets. But a nice and stuck landing AND no damage landing is the outcome. Slow her WAY down a few inches up. Takes a lot of nose up elevator, but HOLD HER OFF as long as possible a few inches up. You say, “I will run outa runway!” To which I respond, “Then SLOW DOWN MORE while on final,”

The pucker factor is getting a lot less! I made 20 landings yesterday and only the first was a bounced go around (head wasn’t in the game, yet).

FLY IN WINDS LESS THAN 8 KNOTS (maybe 5 knots max) while you learn. Wind definitely is your ENEMY while you learn to land her. Just wait for a good day. Sooooo important when you are green.

Edit: Best not to have a cross wind.
Edit #2: With my CG (slightly nose heavy when lifted on the marks), she touches slightly mains first…slightly nose high even with a lot of nose up elevator. Courtesy of the slow airspeed, of course.

-GG

P.S. I have decided 9 knots is my maximum for this bird. Even with lots of experience, any stronger and your chance of success GOES WAY DOWN. So let it be written, so let it be done! (Famous movie quote.)

I have flown her in stronger wind, and I’ve had my butt handed to me when trying. Too iffy!!!!!!! Wanna go home HAPPY? Just fly on light wind days regardless of how good you think you are! A wrong gust at the wrong time and DAMAGE will result!

[jasmith41]

That AOA would scare me and i really don't know sh*t about this stuff yet compared to the rest of you... but maybe the reason she bounces wildly on take-off and landing...?

I admire you guys jumping in both feet with this plane - it's a handful I'm sure... way beyond my scope and ability currently...

[TwistedGrin]

Got my maiden done on Saturday 05-14-22 on GSWAM grass field with the tail fin....take off was from a triple bump but easy to muscle through to keep aloft.....the winds were gusting from 10-15mph and with 90degree shifts...so it was a bit bumpy. Figure eight was nice and wide. I did notice it disapeared on me in sustained wing level downwind. I set up for as shallow landing I could make and kept the nose up as long as I could.....it bounced and I was too late to apply throttle and it nosed in for the dreaded cartwheel. Nose point, one wing tip and one main gear door broke off. I made field repairs and removed the other gear door and the clear fin for the next flight.

Second flight the take off was much better .....lower flight throttle and I greased the landing. Third flight was another easy take off...but my landing was another bumper but I managed to go around and make a successful landing albeit another bumper but.....was slow enough to stay planted to finish a roll out. Fourth flight was less throttle on the entire flight and a better landing. Fifth flight was another successful take off, nice flight and successful landing.

I did observe cross winds are Not friendly and weathervaining can be reduced by removing the fin. Oscillations on my bird were at 50% throttle but at 15mph wind gusting on the nose.

The single main wheels are a proven success on our grass field with five proven take offs.

I will order a fresh set of main doors as soon as they are available and keep honing in my landings.....check out my maiden landing and set the video to lowest speed.....after I announce that I am landing..

Here is the maiden video: https://youtu.be/AYAwoApAiNQ

TwistedGrin

[DCORSAIR]

Finally got good weather today. Got to put two more flights on her. Also got to fly my YF-23 twice. Picture is from last flight of B-2 timer 2 shows 11 minutes. That was 10 minutes of flight and I of taxing back. Yes I did a nice long show taxi pass after landing.
pack showed 25% after I pulled it out. HRB 6000mah 6S.

YF-23 flys awesome now, few more flights and I’ll have her landings dialed in.

https://youtu.be/KwZiWb09E1k

Gravy

Looking good Gravy.....

[Gravythe clown]

Finally got good weather today. Got to put two more flights on her. Also got to fly my YF-23 twice. Picture is from last flight of B-2 timer 2 shows 11 minutes. That was 10 minutes of flight and I of taxing back. Yes I did a nice long show taxi pass after landing.
pack showed 25% after I pulled it out. HRB 6000mah 6S.

YF-23 flys awesome now, few more flights and I’ll have her landings dialed in.

https://youtu.be/KwZiWb09E1k

Gravy