Official Freewing 80mm A-4E/F Skyhawk Thread

[themudduck]

Looks like instead of freaking out about where to measure from, you could simply say: "balance at the aft edge of the wheel well" and be pretty spot on with Alpha's tape measure. Or just make sure that 5000mah 6S battery is "sittin' at the top of the bay" like he showed in the picture, and not bother measuring. With no ordnance loaded. Amirite? Man, I'm so excited about the Scooter!

[xplaneguy]

Im with Tony on this. Measure from where the gun barrel is inserted. That is the only way 195 works. The aft line in the graphic that shows on the forward side of the wing fences is correct. It's the starting point needs to be looked at.

We we're having a hard time with her until we moved it up.

It makes sense to error on the side of caution and do early flights "nose heavy". If you hate it, move it back.

On our media montage video we were slowly moving it forward. Our first flights rotation was happening too soon and sometimes uncommanded. It's a fantastic flyer that for Captain Mike and I flies predictable like a warbird now. Especially fly nose heavy when fully dressed. We maidened without he hump and no bullpups.

More later.
To reiterate, I'm with xplaneguy in this.

Pilot
Ryan

Thanks Ryan! There is no doubt...ensuring success for everyone is the goal of the entire Motion RC Team. You and Mike have and continue to provide outstanding information through exceptional videos and online feedback. Your efforts are very much appreciated!

Best,
Tony

[Alpha]

Friends,
Let's all remember that a model aircraft's "CG" is not a perfectly objective position. Beyond the obvious aerodynamic factors (wing, thrust line, decalage, etc), so many other arguably subjective factors play into what is deemed an "ideal" CG by pilots. In truth, any manufacturer's recommended CG is just to give pilots a safe range to experience a safe maiden flight. From there, adjusting CG/throws/expo --all of which work in concert to create the "feel" of an aircraft's handling, is undertaken by each pilot to eventually arrive at his/her preferences. We've all done this on our other models. The A-4 won't be any different. All the while, I would encourage us to remember that Sensitive Controls and Divergent Flight are two different things.

With every new aircraft we release there are always pilots who prefer a different CG location or a different combination of throws/expo --that is to be expected. What all of us here that work on these prototypes are really after is getting your initial CG location to be a range within what we believe and have personally verified is a reasonably safe starting point. I'd be comfortable recommending 175mm-195mm. As Ryan and Tony mentioned, and as I implied as well, arrange your battery or use a larger one to hit a more forward CG for your maiden. Then adjust from there. You can't go wrong with pushing the battery all the way forward. That's where I believe Tony told me he is flying now (Tony correct me if I'm wrong?).

In terms of throws, again our provided High/Low throws are a range of what we feel is comfortable for most pilots, but they'll never be "best" for "everyone". If a pilot is especially wary of sensitive controls on their A-4 maiden, reducing throws even further, ~2mm-4mm less than the currently recommended Lows, is something that pilot might elect to try of their own volition. In general, I prefer max throw available and let my fingers decide how much is enough for a maiden. For the A-4, reducing the aileron throws is less of a problem than reducing the elevator throw.... slowing aileron roll rate is not nearly as potentially dangerous as running out of elevator on landing.

I will emphasize again that the aileron's neutral position is very important on the Freewing A-4 and has a big impact on the aircraft's sensitivity and other attributes which one might more readily associate with "CG". See my pictures, and match that for your aileron neutral position for your maiden. The neutral position, and throws, and expo, and "CG" that I pictured are what I am flying, and what four of our test pilots in Asia are flying. We're over 500 flights by now.

Ryan and Tony, in addition to your CG location preferences you've provided (THANKS!), would you please also comment on how you're balancing your A-4s, and would you please post the throws you're currently flying, and the expo for each control surface? I believe both of you have different throws/expo. It might be insightful to also post your throws and expo for your MiG-21s and Mirages. Since I feel the A-4 flies closest to these two deltas, and the rest of us reading along here might be able to compare notes.

As always, and we're all adults here, our mileage may vary.

[crxmanpat]

Totally agree with what Alpha states above. A good example is the A-10. Manual says 76mm for CG. I started there, and it flew fine. However, it "felt" a little nose heavy to me, so now I have my CG back to about 86mm. Flies fine at that CG too, but feels more comfortable to me, and I think it lands better at the more aft CG location.

[seaviper]

Nice write-up Alpha. Thank you.

[xplaneguy]

All good info/feedback Alpha; thanks! Yes, there are many variables when it comes to a pilot's flying style and preferences. Ultimately, we're here to help keep everyone's investment in "one piece" and collectively, the team is doing just that. Establishing a safe CG baseline at 195mm from the gun insert...aft, IMHO...will do that. Thank you for everything you are doing for all of us!

Agree, aileron's neutral position is very important with this jet! I'm flying the older style Admiral 6S 5000 pack all the way forward; balancing right side up. I'm at max throws (100%) on all controls. Using a Futaba 7C transmitter. Expo: Ailerons 40%, Elevator 50% and 30% Rudder/Steering. NOTE: Futaba users, your expo settings will be minus (-40%). I don't want to confuse other radio users.

[gooniac33]

100% agreed... I prefer to see a CG range instead of just one place... all other settings are subjective as well. It all depends on how you fly!

[HellHathNoFury]

I would like to thank all the guys.. Alpha,Tony,Ryan & Mike for their inputs regarding control surfaces on new Models .. This is so helpful to ensure a successful Maiden ..No matter how experienced a Pilot one is or thinks he his the biggest unknown factor are the control rates of a new Bird & any info to reduce that factor goes a long way to that successful Maiden & much enjoyment thereafter...Any help to reduce the use of Diapers on Maiden is greatly appreciated..:)LOL

[ryramZ]

Thanks HH! We want everyone to enjoy this beautiful bird as much as we do.
I asked Capt Mike how he had our bird set up and he told me I was flying low rates by the book with 20 percent expo on everything. I know we called it midrates in the vid but that was because he set a lower rate we never used. Flaps we set at half only but also had the mix by the book for both callouts. Example half flap at 1.5mm up mix, and half flap at 3mm up mix. Don't hold me to the mm as I can't remember at the moment.

Best wishes!

By the way, I can't wait to get mine either.

Stick em' monkey pants!

[xplaneguy]

Thanks HHNF! Looking forward to your maiden feedback.

Have fun Jester! ;)

[EgidaBob]

Does anyone have the manual yet?

Also I am seeing much conversation about set up. Do I understand this correctly: Battery at front mounting screws, expo settings: Ailerons 40%, Elevator 50%, Rudder/Steering 30%, 4 min flight time (5000 mah), 1mm Up elevator with wings loaded, CG 195mm

[TomPatton]

Shipping notification please!!! Gonna get cold quick this year, that's the way it always happens when a fantastic plane comes out at the end of the summer...

[HellHathNoFury]

For those interested.. I just ran my fan with a Wattmeter & got figure of 2250W@99A .. Used CHL 6200mah 30c & 5000mah 55c .. Similar figures on both batteries.. Not bad for a stock fan..:Cool:.. Looks so Badass with Bullpups on..Time to breakout the Airbrush..:)

[TiredIronGRB]

Just got my shipping notification.

[Kloverzero]

THE SHIPPING NOTIFICATIONS ARE ROLLING OUT!!! THE SKYHAWK IS COMING, THE SKYHAWK IS COMING!!!!!!!

[xplaneguy]

Looking forward to seeing all of the custom paint schemes planned. I'm excited by the fact that the number of Douglas A-4 Skyhawks returning to the air worldwide will increase in a BIG way! :)

[crxmanpat]

Just got my notice too. Can't wait!

[RCjetdude]

Yay! That is a pleasant surprise... it's not even mid September. I got my notification too.... ;)

[Boots Whirlygig]

[TomPatton]

Woohoo, mine is on it's way!!!:Cool: