Avios/Hobby King 1600mm C-130 Hercules

[xviper]

Well, in the meantime - I pilled off the wire ducts covering and have th efollowing findings:

1) whil attempting yet again to Sync the ESC's, I noticed that 3 motors move with the beeps, but the problematic one does NOT.
2) This means that it doesn't Sync with the others.
3) I pulled out the wires to see that the ESC is actually inside the Nacelle - glued inside to the foam
4) An unusual wiring - 4 wires go into it, a black+white (those are the negative and signal of the usual 3 wire plug
5) The power goes in as RED and BLACK, I assume - the RED splits inside the ESC to power the ESC itself

Usually, an ESC has two plugs, one the 3 pins, the other - the actual power to the motor. But I can't think of how to replace the current strange thing with a normal 20A ESC...

I will try the other thread

Thanks again

The "other" thread??? As far as I know, this is the only thread about the Avios C-130 here in HobbySquawk. You just posted your questions again in this thread. Are you perhaps thinking of the one at RC Groups?

Regarding the wires. There are usually only 3 wires going from an ESC to a motor. From each ESC to the battery is usually 2 wires. Additionally, from each ESC to the receiver (or perhaps in this case, to the control board, then to the RX), should be a 3 conductor wire. Since the offending motor (position) is not twitching and making any beeps, there's definitely something amiss and in your case, appears to be the wiring since you've already put a different motor there. If you can pull out that ESC and check the connection (3 pins), that might reveal the problem. I've had planes arrive where one or more of those 3 pins have been disconnected or not fully pushed in.
Any chance you can post a picture?

PS. OK, I see you started another thread about changing the ESC, so disregard my question about the "other" thread.

[alex4orly]

Hello pilots,

I got my c-130 in February, was not able to maiden it until now.

The outer right motor ESC just doesn't Sync with the other 3, upon spooling up - the machine swings to the left...
Today - I pilled off the right wing wire ducts covering and have the following findings:

1) while attempting yet again to Sync the ESC's, I noticed that 3 motors move with the beeps, but the problematic one does NOT.
2) This means that it doesn't Sync with the others.
3) I pulled out the wires to see that the ESC is actually inside the Nacelle - glued inside to the foam. I pulled it out.
4) An unusual wiring - 4 wires go into it, a black+white (those are the negative and signal of the usual 3 wire plug from the Receiver)
5) The power goes in as RED and BLACK, I assume - the RED splits inside the ESC to power the ESC itself

Usually, an ESC has two plugs, one the 3 pins, the other - the actual power to the motor. But I can't think of how to replace the current strange thing with a normal 20A ESC...

Will appreciate any help

Thanks

[alex4orly]

HI xviper, I can't find that wing wiring post, tried several other things....

[alex4orly]

Well, in the meantime - I pilled off the wire ducts covering and have th efollowing findings:

1) whil attempting yet again to Sync the ESC's, I noticed that 3 motors move with the beeps, but the problematic one does NOT.
2) This means that it doesn't Sync with the others.
3) I pulled out the wires to see that the ESC is actually inside the Nacelle - glued inside to the foam
4) An unusual wiring - 4 wires go into it, a black+white (those are the negative and signal of the usual 3 wire plug
5) The power goes in as RED and BLACK, I assume - the RED splits inside the ESC to power the ESC itself

Usually, an ESC has two plugs, one the 3 pins, the other - the actual power to the motor. But I can't think of how to replace the current strange thing with a normal 20A ESC...

I will try the other thread

Thanks again

[xviper]

Try different terms in this thread’s search. I found the following by putting in “wing wiring”.

tab28682 I've been meticulously inspecting all the wiring. It's pretty easy with the plane in 3 pieces. I'm definitely going to hard wire all the servo connections that come out of the wing to a bypass the distribution board that came installed on it. I just don't like the rats nest of wires and each connection is a point of failure. I'm also going take a closer look at the XT-60 connector on the BEC. It doesn't have any visible problems but it's the first point of failure (besides the battery) in the power distribution circuit. Oh, I forgot to mention this, after my first crash I was inspecting the 4 power wires that come off the BEC and run through the wings. They have bullet connectors on them about a few inches passed the BEC and one of them was barely connected. I don't know if this happened during the crash but it would explain the first issue I had with the entire plane loosing power and resetting when it taxied. After that repair I had a new problem that seemed more like a low voltage condition.

I'll keep working and let everyone know if I find a smoking gun. Also, I'm working on a wiring schematic for the plane. I keep having to rely on pictures to remember how everything was connected and I've already mapped out the wing root connectors during an early round of troubleshooting so I figured it would come in handy if I keep having to rebuild this thing.

[alex4orly]

Hello again,

Swapping the motors didn't change anything, the problem DID NOT follow the motor, it stays on the outmost right motor.
I connect and remove the wings all the time to store the machine on the shelves in my garage...

The problem is in my mind no doubt, that something is wrong, either the ESC for that motor, or the wiring...

My current problem is that the plugs of the wing to the fuselage have pins and I have no wiring diagrame to tell me what goes where. IT will be a lot of trial and error to figure it out and even then, it is not sure that I will resolve it. What if the problem is in the wing wiring, the wires are burried in there....

There is a post here of a guy that did take out the wires and re-wired it, maybe he can give me a hint - if he reads this as to what pin does what?

Do you know who that is?

Cheers

[xviper]

So, when you swap motors, does the same position spin harder or does it follow that motor. If the outer right motor still spins harder, then its got something to do with the ESC in that position. Re-wiring isn't likely to change anything unless there's a short or bare wire. Removing the wing shouldn't be that difficult. It's just the reverse of how you put it on in the first place.

[alex4orly]

HI xviper,

Thanks for your feedback.

1) My Rx is bound OK, all controls are working
2) I have all motors turning the right way - two clockwise, the other two counter
3) All props are installed correctly
4) All my repeat ESC sync attempts didn't change anything - the outer right motor is spinning harder that the other three, causing the plane to swing to the left as soon as I start opening the throttle
5) Also, the sound of that motor, sounds much louder than the others.... even after swapping two of the motors....

Looks like I need to pull out all the wiring, and rewire it all by myself with Y leads....

Unless, there is another way?

Thanks

[xviper]

Hello good people,

I got my AVIOS Hercules c-130 in February 2020. Until now, I didn't manage to maiden it. When I got the box from HK, I was busy with two other projects so it set there in the box for over a month. After puting it all together, took it out to the road in front of the house to try and taxi it to see how she goes. It dosn't matter what I did - it was shifting viloently to the left, even with full right rudder. I made contact with HK and they decided to send me 2 new motors. IN the meantime, COVID-19 got into the story and today, 13th of June 2020 I still didn't get the motors, who they said were sent on the 4th of April.

I got sick of waiting, I swapped to motors to see what will it do, the problem remains.... IT seems the problem is in the electronic devices inside, but the mess in there makes it impossible to figure out what is what. Is there something I can do to synchronize the ESC's - what? Where are any insturctions about it?

Thank for any help

The only instructions that I know of is on the C-130 webpage at HobbyKing. You can download a copy, however, I'm not sure it will give you any instructions on how to sync the motors. This is fairly common knowledge so they generally won't include any info on it. You basically sync them as follows:
Ensure the RX is bound to your TX. Next, you should put the throttle trim on your TX to the bottom. With the TX turned ON, put the throttle stick to max and plug in the flight battery. By now, you should know what the initial tones sound like just before you get the tones that tell you that you have a 4 cell battery. As soon as you hear the initial tones (and no more than those), move the throttle stick to the bottom. At that time, you should then get the tones for 4 cells and the plane should be initialized and ready to go.
Next, are you sure the motors are turning in the correct direction? Both right motors turn in one direction while both left motors turn in the opposite direction. Off hand, I can't remember exactly but the props should turn "inward" - ie, the top of each prop should turn toward the fuse. Next, are you sure the props are on the correct side of the plane? There are left props and right props.
It sounds to me that either one or more motors is turning backwards to what they should be doing OR, some or all of the props are on the wrong side. Put your hand behind each prop when they are spinning at low throttle. Which way is the wind going? They should all be blowing back. If one or more is blowing forward, you have your answer.
Finally, I'm sure this isn't the case even though I've seen it happen before .......................... You didn't mount the props on backwards, did you? That is to say, there's a front face and a back face to a prop. It shouldn't be that easy to do on this plane since the painted tips face the front. The back side has no paint. I've seen people try to fly a plane with the prop on backwards. It'll still push air to the rear but it has a fraction of the thrust needed to actually fly the plane. On a multi-engined plane, that would provide some dramatic differential thrust.

[alex4orly]

Hello good people,

I got my AVIOS Hercules c-130 in February 2020. Until now, I didn't manage to maiden it. When I got the box from HK, I was busy with two other projects so it set there in the box for over a month. After puting it all together, took it out to the road in front of the house to try and taxi it to see how she goes. It dosn't matter what I did - it was shifting viloently to the left, even with full right rudder. I made contact with HK and they decided to send me 2 new motors. IN the meantime, COVID-19 got into the story and today, 13th of June 2020 I still didn't get the motors, who they said were sent on the 4th of April.

I got sick of waiting, I swapped to motors to see what will it do, the problem remains.... IT seems the problem is in the electronic devices inside, but the mess in there makes it impossible to figure out what is what. Is there something I can do to synchronize the ESC's - what? Where are any insturctions about it?

Thank for any help

[xviper]

I keep having to rely on pictures to remember how everything was connected and I've already mapped out the wing root connectors during an early round of troubleshooting so I figured it would come in handy if I keep having to rebuild this thing.

I've started to do that myself. It's so easy to yank out the cellphone and take a picture of stuff for future reference. The hard part is remembering to yank out the cellphone.

[PropRocket]

xviper Putting a z-bend in the rudder push rod is a good idea. I think that servo went bad as well. I was testing it yesterday and it was very jittery around the neutral position. I might as well change all the servos while I'm at it.

tab28682 I've been meticulously inspecting all the wiring. It's pretty easy with the plane in 3 pieces. I'm definitely going to hard wire all the servo connections that come out of the wing to a bypass the distribution board that came installed on it. I just don't like the rats nest of wires and each connection is a point of failure. I'm also going take a closer look at the XT-60 connector on the BEC. It doesn't have any visible problems but it's the first point of failure (besides the battery) in the power distribution circuit. Oh, I forgot to mention this, after my first crash I was inspecting the 4 power wires that come off the BEC and run through the wings. They have bullet connectors on them about a few inches passed the BEC and one of them was barely connected. I don't know if this happened during the crash but it would explain the first issue I had with the entire plane loosing power and resetting when it taxied. After that repair I had a new problem that seemed more like a low voltage condition.

I'll keep working and let everyone know if I find a smoking gun. Also, I'm working on a wiring schematic for the plane. I keep having to rely on pictures to remember how everything was connected and I've already mapped out the wing root connectors during an early round of troubleshooting so I figured it would come in handy if I keep having to rebuild this thing.

[tab28682]

I have had a couple of electric twins do the re-initialize thing on the ground or in the pits before flying.

In one case, it was a bad battery adapter, used so I could use some Deans equipped packs without changing out the stock aircraft plugs. One of the solder joints was broken in the adapter, which was the type that has the two types of connectors sold back to back. Stopped using adapters after that.

In the other case, years ago, it was a Deans connector I had overheated when I soldered it on a battery. Just damaged enough so it would sometimes lose contact for a moment.

As a poster mentioned, worth triple checking the wiring harness for the four ESCs. Also, I have seen models that would do the ESC reset if you picked them up and shook them, so worth trying that.


My C--130 is still doing great, but only have about 35 flights on it.

[xviper]

When dealing with 4 engines and anytime a control board is added to the mix, a simple model can become a complex model and stuff can go wrong in all sorts of places.
Regarding the rudder, I too, noticed that the control arm was "off" so I put a slight "Z" bend in it to make it line up better with the horn. I can't remember exactly, but I think the rudder has a foam hinge and all foam hinges can be quite stiff out of the box. I remove the rods from these control surfaces and "exercise" the heck out of them before final calibration.
Just last week, on my C-130, on the last flight, both main gear doors stuck open. When I got it home and did the diagnosis, it turns out that both servos seized. Even in my hands, the arms would not budge - cheap components. Replaced both with other, better HobbyKing servos from dismantled planes and all is well.
This plane is great value for the money, but then, one has to wonder how many corners were cut to achieve that price point. I'm keeping my fingers crossed in hopes that nothing else bad turns up. I love the plane. Good luck with your diagnosis.

[PropRocket]

xviper Thanks for the advice. I've been checking all the wires and connections just as I did after the first crash. During my first repair I found one of the pins on the lower strobe light loose because it was inserted incorrectly but I don't know what effect it would have had. None of the solder joints look bad but it's quite possible that any one of the small circuit devices that control the gear door timing, lighting, servo distribution could be faulty. Also, I did inspect the batteries on both flights mostly to make sure they weren't damaged from the crashes and they were both fine. I want to know what that tone I heard during the second takeoff was. That would help out a lot. I assume it was a low voltage alarm and I am going to try and duplicate it by running all 4 motors on a drained battery. If so, something is drawing too much current.

As for the BEC, I guess the 5.5V is trivial. I do know that the inboard flap servos should not be making the noises they're making and the rudder servo definitely strains more than is should because the servo control arm is not parallel with the rudder control arm and the rudder itself is a little stiff. Again, these may not be the problem but I was able to get one of the inboard flap servos to draw 900mA for almost 3 seconds just by cycling it past the limit of the flap. I did this on purpose just to see how much a strained servo could draw after reading about the door servo burning out or causing voltage sags because it was set up properly. It's definitely a weird problem but for my next flight I'm going to have a voltage and current measuring device (with it's own power source) record the current and voltage passing through power distribution wires.

[xviper]

@PropRocket Mine's been flying stock since the second factory run of the grey version. The BEC is set at whatever it was set at when it came. Nothing has been changed on it. I doubt the servos care whether the BEC is set at 5v or 5.5v. Yours doesn't seem to be a servo problem anyway. It seems when you bounce it down the runway, the power flow stops. I'd be looking at a bad solder somewhere along the power flow route. Did you check the solder on battery connector on the plane side? How about the connector on the battery itself? I've had bad solders in those that one of the wires could just be pulled out with light force, especially after being warmed up. When that can happen, that tells me that the solder was very poor and current can be intermittent or reduced considerably. Was the connector hot to touch after the crashes? Since all 4 engines quit, it not going to be any of the individual ESCs. It's likely in the power distribution upstream of those, hence, my previous statement about bad solders. It could also be poor connections in the control box or a bad control box. When you fix it, you should chase down all those possibilities and not let it leave the ground until you can do several full power ground runs.

[PropRocket]

I had a similar experience to icepirate3. On my first attempt to fly mine, about a year ago, it kept loosing power while taxiing as if there was a signal problem. All four propellers would stop rotating and I had no servo control. Within a second or two, the ESC's made their start up tones and I had power again until I tried to taxi. I assumed it was a radio problem so I replaced the receiver and did some taxi checks in my driveway at home with no issue. I took it back to the field and did a few more taxi checks and never lost power. I gave full power to take off and shortly after the plane broke ground it lost power and I had no control. It suffered significant damage but I made a project out of repairing it.

With it back to flight ready status, I did taxi and max power checks to try and duplicate the issues I previously had. Everything seemed to be working. I took it out to the field and started my takeoff run. It broke ground and I started to turn right. However, about 2 seconds after takeoff I heard a strange tone that almost sounded like the plane was sadly saying "Uh-oh". It lost power to the motors but I still had servo control (note: I never tried to retract the gear as I was waiting until I completed a single pattern). Unfortunately, loosing power right after takeoff is never an easy recovery and it stalled almost immediately and hit the ground hard. I suspect that the low voltage cutoff was triggered but when I recovered the battery, it was still at about 90%. I am doing a lot of electrical systems checks because I bet something it drawing way too much current, or the low voltage cutoff is too high. So far, I am replacing the inboard flap servos (likely all of the wing servos while I'm at it) because they sound terrible and are drawing as much as 240mA even after I trim them. I will disconnect the flaps, cargo door, and fuselage lighting for the next attempted flight to rule them out for sure should I crash again.

Lastly, what should the output voltage of the BEC be set too? I always assumed this should be 5V as it is a standard servo voltage but mine was set to 5.5V. I changed it to 5V because I can't find anything saying otherwise and a voltage increase on the servos, especially one that is higher than they are rated at, can obviously cause problems. I can't say that it hasn't been fun making these major repairs but I do want this thing to fly. Eventually, I will buy a new fuselage if they ever show up in the US warehouses.

[rifleman_btx]

I was bummed when my buddy brought his to the field. I think he had balance issues with his, and it crashed on landing. He said it felt squirrely though out the flight. So that lead me to believe it was a balance issue. Was sad to see it go.

[xviper]

I'm using a single Graphene, 2200mah, 4s, which is a bit heavier than a "normal" 2200. The battery strap had to be relocated so the battery could be mounted side-ways (as opposed to the usual longitudinally) and as far back as possible to make the book CG at 65mm. I've seen some people put a larger battery also "side ways", but at an angle rather than flat on the floor. You could mount 2X2200's sideways, one on top of the other and it would be only a bit nose heavy, which I think the plane can handle. You'd have to make a strap that can support the top battery from falling forward off the bottom battery. Or, you could put the second battery longitudinally with the front of it over the first sideways battery and rig up some velcro on that lip and shove the rest of the second battery back where all the wiring comes through.
With my single 2200, I have my timer set for 4:20 and so long as I don't fly it at max throttle, the battery comes down at a safe voltage. For me, 4:20 is plenty for a single flight. I usually fly it a second time on the same size battery.

[Enterprise206]

Just picked one up brand new for 300$ from Perry. Haven’t looked at the manual yet. Any CG suggestions and maybe using more then one battery?. Got the Fat Albert scheme.