TD M60 A3 review.

[Rubicon99]

Finally got in a metal version TD M60A3. Unfortunately things are not starting off well. It arrived with a broken main gun mount, broken rear engine exhaust panel and jammed left side gearbox.

On a positive note the gears are steel and the gearboxes are all have bearings. Also the arrangement is the same as used in HL gearboxes and it would be as simple changing of the bearings to use HL gears. I tried.....they fit.

To be continued.........

[Rubicon99]

Removed the left gearbox and found the reason for the jamming. The motors pinion gear has "flat" gear teeth that are not able to fully and smooth mesh with its corresponding gear. I replaced the stock 380 motors with HL blue 380 motors as these have more torque and a much smoother fit/mesh. See photos below.

TD stock 380 motor pinion gear mesh up. As you can see the mesh is not very good and as such would "catch" and cause the motor to stop turning.


Heng Long blue 380 motor. You can see how much better the pinion meshes with its corresponding gear.

[tank_me]

I'll have to look at that with mine. Mine came through shipping much better. Only real damage was the BB feed tray fell off (saves me from having to remove it), a couple of the fake shocks on the suspension broke off, a ring broke off the lower hull, and two of the plastic bosses holding on the rear grill on where the nuts are broke. I did find that MEK works to melt the plastic back together, but one of the bosses wasn't in the box anywhere so eventually I might just MEK that back plate on. I've already magnetized the hull on mine to eliminate the screws. I had to reclock at least 3 of the torsion bars as the tank was listing to one side even after pulling the track off and one track was tighter than the other so I equalized them after fixing the ride height. I think the red motors are too long to work so if the blues are better than stock I will consider them also. I'm going to find a better way to screw the short, last upper screw on both gearboxes. It seems it's stripped out on both gearboxes which really only leaves two coarse thread screws holding the gearboxes in.

Derek

[cmdrcody]

Okay, I'll ask the questions that probably, including myself, everybody is wondering about this new TD M60A3 model.
How much of this model is actually made of metal and what type of metal is it?
In the photos above by "Rubicon99", is that how everything inside the chassis is situated/mounted? Looks as though it was hastily thrown together by the manufacturer.
Lastly, how much did this TD M60A3 model cost and what was the shipping cost?
According to both reviews, so far, it seems that the QC department at TD is not up to par which will effect customers purchasing it, IMHO.

[Rubicon99]

I'll have to look at that with mine. Mine came through shipping much better. Only real damage was the BB feed tray fell off (saves me from having to remove it), a couple of the fake shocks on the suspension broke off, a ring broke off the lower hull, and two of the plastic bosses holding on the rear grill on where the nuts are broke. I did find that MEK works to melt the plastic back together, but one of the bosses wasn't in the box anywhere so eventually I might just MEK that back plate on. I've already magnetized the hull on mine to eliminate the screws. I had to reclock at least 3 of the torsion bars as the tank was listing to one side even after pulling the track off and one track was tighter than the other so I equalized them after fixing the ride height. I think the red motors are too long to work so if the blues are better than stock I will consider them also. I'm going to find a better way to screw the short, last upper screw on both gearboxes. It seems it's stripped out on both gearboxes which really only leaves two coarse thread screws holding the gearboxes in.

Derek

YEP all the same little things were broken on mine and will need to be dealt with as I move through the build process.

I was able to squeeze in a set of red 390s but they needed to have some insulation between the rear of the motors because they rubbed on the metal wall of the corresponding gearbox. The insulation would wear through rather fast from vibration so I went sure route using the blue 380 motors I had on hand.

[Rubicon99]

Okay, I'll ask the questions that probably, including myself, everybody is wondering about this new TD M60A3 model.
How much of this model is actually made of metal and what type of metal is it?
In the photos above by "Rubicon99", is that how everything inside the chassis is situated/mounted? Looks as though it was hastily thrown together by the manufacturer.
Lastly, how much did this TD M60A3 model cost and what was the shipping cost?
According to both reviews, so far, it seems that the QC department at TD is not up to par which will effect customers purchasing it, IMHO.

The metal parts are simply the suspension arms, idler adjustment, road wheels, tracks and gearboxes. The return rollers are just painted silver and are not metal. The metal appears to be the same as used by HL.

Yes what you see in the photo of the inside is how mine came. Nothing was attached and it had a battery plugged in. Not a big deal for me since everything is being ripped out and replaced.

From what I saw the smaller parts breakage is do to poor packaging. The metal version is actually much heavier then the plastic version but the packaging is the same.

Shipping from DKLM was just over $100 for via air mail. He does not ship "ground".

[SoCalBobS]

Got a fine detail question for you: you noted the track pins tended to drift out. Do the pins have a knurled end? I ask because I got some Mato tracks that didn't, and I think the Tongde factory makes Mato tanks too.

I see your gun pivot was broken like mine was, even on the same side. Was the foam packing of real poor quality? I know DKLM was going to point that out to the factory.

Anyway, the M60 is a unique product, it's not like the many Tiger 1's or Shermans out there. I considered mine to be a challenge project. After a couple of months, I deemed it a success.

[RichJohnson]

Is LA Tank going to be an m60 battle this week?

[SoCalBobS]

Not me. Granddaughter Easter event.

[quitcherbitchen]

I think it will be this weekend. I just texted David and Jeff.

[Rubicon99]

Got a fine detail question for you: you noted the track pins tended to drift out. Do the pins have a knurled end? I ask because I got some Mato tracks that didn't, and I think the Tongde factory makes Mato tanks too.

I see your gun pivot was broken like mine was, even on the same side. Was the foam packing of real poor quality? I know DKLM was going to point that out to the factory.

Anyway, the M60 is a unique product, it's not like the many Tiger 1's or Shermans out there. I considered mine to be a challenge project. After a couple of months, I deemed it a success.

Bob my pins do not appear to be knurled.

The foam packing was IMO nowhere as good as what HL uses.

[RichJohnson]

My hooben leopard and the Merkava both had the gun barrel poking through a hole in a bulkhead of foam that was the complete width and height of the box. Gotta say, hooben packs tanks very well.

Henglong used to have broken tanks in boxes till they learned. TD is way behind the curve because at this time they should know better. They did no testing at all or they would know how to properly pack their tanks.
I recently accepted a metal chassis T90MS as middle man and packed it, and shipped it cross country to a reshipper where it was then shipped to Barbados. It took a month but it arrived in perfect condition.
TD needs to get their act together.

[Rubicon99]

Worked on repairing the broken gun mount and decided to strengthen them in the process. Added a large metal base ring to them and epoxied the ring and mounting arm together. Used this method a few times before and it works well for me (see photos below).

While I had the turret apart I stripped everything out and installed a metal HL servo recoil and servo elevation system. Along with this I added a more accurate/scale 105mm M68 canon made by JVM3Dconcepts. The barrel REALLY changes the overall look of the turret from what was very toy like to now something more hobby grade model like (see photos below. Barrel is primer painted only).

A few other little turret detail changes. I added a cover to the stock mantle that when painted will have more of a correct "canvas" look vs the smooth sided plastic that TD used. Also I am sealing off the extra mounting holes on the mantle that are for use with the A1 versions ERA plates. Since I also do not like the way TD did the smoke launcher I am sealing those mounting points as well and will be adding more correct smoke launcher mounts once they are printed. Again JVM3Dconepts is designing those and will be available soon.

Main gun mount and strengthening fix.

HL metal servo recoil and elevation system.


Filling the extra mantle holes and attaching a more correct barrel baffle.

Installed new more accurate 105mm M68 cannon by JVM3Dconepts. You can see the difference compared to the stock TD barrel laying next to it.


Misc photos of the current build status.


Next I will be finishing up the turret and replacing the TD control system with a HL 7.1 system. Don't worry I will be getting to the suspension and road wheels soon.

To be continued.........

[Rubicon99]

Started in on the suspension after I had a chance to do a bit of driving outside. As was mentioned prior the TD M60 has a bit of a lean to one side. Some simple tweaking of the torsion bars to add a bit more down force will help level the tank out. Took about 20 minutes and a couple of test drives to get a reasonable level balance left to right. I still have to go back in and adjust the rear Special suspension arm torsion bars. These sit under the gearboxes and I did not have the time to remove the gearboxes and tweak the bars. Once done the suspension should be set up fairly well.

I must say I like suspension on this tank. It's easy to work on and it performs rather smoothly when driving over rough terrain.

Torsion bars with covers off. Very easy to work on.

[tank_me]

Started in on the suspension after I had a chance to do a bit of driving outside. As was mentioned prior the TD M60 has a bit of a lean to one side. Some simple tweaking of the torsion bars to add a bit more down force will help level the tank out. Took about 20 minutes and a couple of test drives to get a reasonable level balance left to right. I still have to go back in and adjust the rear Special suspension arm torsion bars. These sit under the gearboxes and I did not have the time to remove the gearboxes and tweak the bars. Once done the suspension should be set up fairly well.

I must say I like suspension on this tank. It's easy to work on and it performs rather smoothly when driving over rough terrain.

Torsion bars with covers off. Very easy to work on.

Yeah, I had to pull the motors to adjust the rear most bars. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Funny part is the track pins on the T97E2 chevron track I got are knurled on one end. Boy they are heavy tracks too. I don't mind that though. My batteries last a long time while battling. I saw that metal recoil and servo system. I have it installed in my HL ZTZ-99 and I really like it. Only issues I've had with it is the High Intensity Flasher from Taigen doesn't fit into the barrel from the breach side as the hole is too small and price. I usually have to desolder it from the flasher board, insert the wires down the barrel, and resolder it on. It's definitely not the cheapest solution out there, but it is pretty robust from my experience. At this point mine will probably go up on the shelf until the Starship turret arrives next month.

Derek

[Rubicon99]

Yeah, I had to pull the motors to adjust the rear most bars. Wasn't hard, just time consuming. Funny part is the track pins on the T97E2 chevron track I got are knurled on one end. Boy they are heavy tracks too. I don't mind that though. My batteries last a long time while battling. I saw that metal recoil and servo system. I have it installed in my HL ZTZ-99 and I really like it. Only issues I've had with it is the High Intensity Flasher from Taigen doesn't fit into the barrel from the breach side as the hole is too small and price. I usually have to desolder it from the flasher board, insert the wires down the barrel, and resolder it on. It's definitely not the cheapest solution out there, but it is pretty robust from my experience. At this point mine will probably go up on the shelf until the Starship turret arrives next month.

Derek

I already pull the gearboxes four times yesterday doing motor mix and matches🥴🥴🥴 to finally get the right power mix. Not excited about doing it for a fifth time.

Yes the track are heavy and solid. I was expecting the hallow HL type metal tracks. Now if they had just taken the next step and gone with dual pins as well. My biggest complaint with the tracks is that they are way to wide. They are wider then Tamiya Abrams and Leopard tracks when they should be much narrower then both.

I have used the HL metal recoil on a number of tanks and like their durability and relative ease of installation. I run IR bulbs in my barrels so I don't have any issues with complex or heavy wiring running through the recoil system.

I want to get all the bugs worked out on this M60s lower hull because it will also be getting the A2 turret. But then again I am starting to like what I am seeing (mechanically) as I start to tear it down and might just order another for the A2 turret. I also found out what the four mounting positions under the gearboxes are for. They are intended for the HL dual motor "cross drive" transmission.

[tank_me]

I also noticed how wide the tracks were. The sprocket is huge. I guess the only good thing is I could print the chevron track pads for it as I have an STL for them. The pads can be made larger or smaller in the slicer to fit the current sprockets or an Abrams sprocket.

Derek

[Rubicon99]

Now that most of the mechanical issues have been tweaked to my liking and a new 7.1 HL control system is installed it is on to the next item. The metal road wheels.

The metal wheels are one piece with both an inside and outside bearing. They have rubber "tires" that are a bit loose and should be glued on to keep them from coming off (something I did after the first test drive).

The wheels are held on via stainless steel axles bolt to the suspension arms. This is similar to how Tamiya wheels are attached and it works very well.

The plastic hub caps do not "pressure fit" in place like HL caps they need to be glued on, again similarly to Tamiya hub caps. I use a black auto gasket silicone to hold the caps on. This has worked well for me over the years. It is strong holding but easy enough with a firm twist of the hub cap to remove should maintenance be needed.

Overall the road wheels and the way they attach to the suspect arms is very good and I foresee years of trouble free operation from them.








Silicone glue to hold hub cap on.

To be continued.......

[cmdrcody]

The plastic hub caps do not "pressure fit" in place like HL caps they need to be glued on, again similarly to Tamiya hub caps. I use a black auto gasket silicone to hold the caps on. This has worked well for me over the years. It is strong holding but easy enough with a firm twist of the hub cap to remove should maintenance be needed.

They didn't supply metal hub caps?? All HL Pro Edition RTR tanks (full metal tracks, drive sprocket, idler and running wheels) come with metal hub caps for everything.
Why doesn't TD come with them? That ain't right IMHO.

[Rubicon99]

They didn't supply metal hub caps?? All HL Pro Edition RTR tanks (full metal tracks, drive sprocket, idler and running wheels) come with metal hub caps for everything.
Why doesn't TD come with them? That ain't right IMHO.

You would have to ask TD. But metal or not they would still need to be glued on because they would still not pressure fit onto the wheels. Once painted no one will be able to tell if they are metal or plastic, besides metal caps offers no advantages over plastic caps IMO.