TD M60 A3 review.

[SoCalBobS]

I ordered the TongDe metal gearbox at US$76 from DKLMRC. Hope that DKLM has the gearbox on hand. The Hong Kong Postal Service used to be very efficient, but I have not ordered from HK for a while.

I checked at Nova Hobby. Not shipped yet. They apparently sold out on all variety of the Patton M60 tanks. I hope to get the tank and the gearbox in 2-3 weeks.

I have bought HL parts from Novahobby. Quite satisfactory.

[keilau]

I have bought HL parts from Novahobby. Quite satisfactory.

It is encouraging to know that. For the time being, they seem to be the only TongDe tank seller in North America.

[Rubicon99]

A few updates. The M60 continues to run well and I have a few new parts from JVM3Dconcepts for the M60 to show. If you are interested in one or both contact me via a PM.

First the are the replacement torsion bar "lock down covers" these are made of engineering resin which is rather strong material.

Next are sprocket "detail" hub caps. These are made to cover the sprocket screws and provide for a finished look. They are held in place by neodymium magnets (not included). So once on they will not fall off. The sprocket before the caps are added.
After caps are added.

[keilau]

I just ordered a TongDe Patton M60A1 plastic version from Nova Hobby in Canada. The shipping is US$42. I will report back the overall shopping experience including shipping when I get the shipment.

Canadian Postal Service used to be much slower than USPS, but USPS is slowing down fast. I still expect it to be faster ordering from DKLM in Hong Kong.

I asked Nova Hobby about the other TongDe tanks such as the M60A3. They said the next shipment from TongDe is in late summer or later.

On Friday, 4/21. I ordered a TongDe Patton M60A1 plastic version from Nova Hobby in Canada. On 4/24, Monday, Nova Hobby emailed that the processing of the order is completed and waiting for flight carrier. Today, 4/25, UPS emailed that package was received and export processing completed. Estimated delivery date is 4/28, Friday. I give Nova Hobby five stars for quick shipping and communication.

In Canada, UPS is much faster than Canadian Postal Service for package. I ordered the metal gearbox from DKLM on 4/22, Saturday. No update on that order yet.

[keilau]

The package just arrived in excellent condition. It was doubled boxed with thick, strong outer box. I give Nova Hobby a 5-star rating for their communication, packaging and shipping speed. The real unboxing and testing of the Patton tank will take a few more days.

[SoCalBobS]

Congrats! Looks like the original (crappy) foam mine came in, so check for damage in and out. CB claims they've improved the type of packing for the future.

[Rubicon99]

Congrats! Looks like the original (crappy) foam mine came in, so check for damage in and out. CB claims they've improved the type of packing for the future.

I got confirmation that the foam packaging has been improved via DLKM. They sent me photos of the new foam set up. Also they had TD review this thread and are looking at makings some possibly improvements to what has been pointed out🤞🤞.

DLKM said TD is very open to making their tanks better and is listening to consumers. It will take some time but improvements are coming. 👍👍

[keilau]

The package just arrived in excellent condition. It was doubled boxed with thick, strong outer box. I give Nova Hobby a 5-star rating for their communication, packaging and shipping speed. The real unboxing and testing of the Patton tank will take a few more days.

The good news is that there is no obvious broken parts off the box. The tank runs fine as is, but no sound.

The fit of the tank is not good. There is a huge, 1 mm gap between the body and the rear grill panel. Even my 2005 Pershing has better fit. The problem is only cosmetic, but a very important one for military plastic modeler.

The worst problem is the unprotected battery that runs only half an hour, but takes 4 hours to charge. There is no easy way to exchange battery without de-coupling the upper and lower half of the tank. Magnetizing the tank is a must. But I am not sure how well it works due to the poor fit problem I mentioned earlier. Any lithium battery without build-in protection circuit should NOT be used. The TongDe manual keeps emphasizing not to overcharge or overdischarge the battery, but there is no indicator on the tank or the charge wire to help the tank user.

I got confirmation that the foam packaging has been improved via DLKM. They sent me photos of the new foam set up. Also they had TD review this thread and are looking at makings some possibly improvements to what has been pointed out🤞🤞.

DLKM said TD is very open to making their tanks better and is listening to consumers. It will take some time but improvements are coming. 👍👍

The foam seems to have the right shape and worked fine for my shipment. It needs only a few adjustment of the hot wire cutter machine to get it right. Coldbang Wang just need to hire an experienced packaging designer. I have purchased 4 tanks in the last 3 years. Three were HL shipped from New Jersey. This last one from Canada. All of them survive with no major problem. However, shipping individual tank package across an ocean by sea shipment is going to be a challenge.

[SoCalBobS]

Carson of DKLM is working with the TD factory, which is not the same entity as CB. I fashioned a floor from ABS to hold the MFU, speaker and battery. Magnetizing the hulls is essential, and actually eliminated that gap you mentioned.

How do other manufacturers handle the torsion bar floor vis a vis top and bottom hull connections?

[tank_me]

I magnetized the upper and lower of mine really easily and it works well. I don't have any gaps that I've noticed after doing so. Still waiting on notification of my M60A2 Starship turret and detail upgrades to ship.

[RichJohnson]

Hooben installs a sub floor on standoffs over the tortion bars.
DKLM m60a3 the tortion bars were flush with the floor being in grooves so it was not an issue

[Rubicon99]

I magnetized the upper and lower of mine really easily and it works well. I don't have any gaps that I've noticed after doing so. Still waiting on notification of my M60A2 Starship turret and detail upgrades to ship.

I spoke with DKLM about these just a few days ago. They were delayed slightly going into production but they are catching up and the first 10 should be ready soon. 🤞🤞 two of those are ours....

[keilau]

The good news is that there is no obvious broken parts off the box. The tank runs fine as is, but no sound.

The fit of the tank is not good. There is a huge, 1 mm gap between the body and the rear grill panel. Even my 2005 Pershing has better fit. The problem is only cosmetic, but a very important one for military plastic modeler.

The worst problem is the unprotected battery that runs only half an hour, but takes 4 hours to charge. There is no easy way to exchange battery without de-coupling the upper and lower half of the tank. Magnetizing the tank is a must. But I am not sure how well it works due to the poor fit problem I mentioned earlier. Any lithium battery without build-in protection circuit should NOT be used. The TongDe manual keeps emphasizing not to overcharge or overdischarge the battery, but there is no indicator on the tank or the charge wire to help the tank user.

1. The tank model has a few minor design and manufacturing problems on mine. I had no sound because the speaker was completely disconnected. The speaker socket was misaligned with the MB case making it difficult to make a secure connection. I have to push the speaker connector under the MB case to make it stay in place.
2. The receiver MB, speaker and battery are all flapping around. TD uses poor quality double faced tape that doesn't work. They need a stand-off platform above the torsion bars to secure them.
3. The gap between the chassis and the rear radiator grill is poor quality control. The molds actually have good tight fit between them. TD designed the grill to be removable. But manufacturing used undersized bolt and nut which cracked the tabs on the grill panel and pushed it away from the chassis. I don't see why the grill has to be removable. I am waiting for the metal gearbox from DKLM. I want to install the metal gearbox before I glue the grill in.
4. I am not impressed with the driving quality of the TD radio. The speed control seems to be less linear than the late 6.0/7.0 HL radio. Like to hear comment from longer time TD tank users.

The battery is the toughest issue. I can magnetize the chassis to facilatite removing battery for charging. I am also considering using a DPDT relay to switch the battery between running and charging, using the on-off switch. I think that there is room for a DSDP26650 battery pack which can provide 10 times the running time of the TD battery.

Don't get me wrong. I will highly recommend the TongDe tank to anyone who wants a US Patton M60.

[Rubicon99]

1. The tank model has a few minor design and manufacturing problems on mine. I had no sound because the speaker was completely disconnected. The speaker socket was misaligned with the MB case making it difficult to make a secure connection. I have to push the speaker connector under the MB case to make it stay in place.
2. The receiver MB, speaker and battery are all flapping around. TD uses poor quality double faced tape that doesn't work. They need a stand-off platform above the torsion bars to secure them.
3. The gap between the chassis and the rear radiator grill is poor quality control. The molds actually have good tight fit between them. TD designed the grill to be removable. But manufacturing used undersized bolt and nut which cracked the tabs on the grill panel and pushed it away from the chassis. I don't see why the grill has to be removable. I am waiting for the metal gearbox from DKLM. I want to install the metal gearbox before I glue the grill in.
4. I am not impressed with the driving quality of the TD radio. The speed control seems to be less linear than the late 6.0/7.0 HL radio. Like to hear comment from longer time TD tank users.

The battery is the toughest issue. I can magnetize the chassis to facilatite removing battery for charging. I am also considering using a DPDT relay to switch the battery between running and charging, using the on-off switch. I think that there is room for a DSDP26650 battery pack which can provide 10 times the running time of the TD battery.

Don't get me wrong. I will highly recommend the TongDe tank to anyone who wants a US Patton M60.

3. Don't worry about needing to remove the rear grill panel before removing and installing the gearboxes as it is not necessary and the boxes come in and out with ease. I glued mine in place and have no gaps between the hull and grill now.

4. Drivability of the TD control system is mediocre, yes. Their added inertia is not to most people's liking. I swapped mine out for a HL 7.1 and the M60 now drives great.

[SoCalBobS]

Agree with you both regarding driving. I also installed a HL 7.0.

[keilau]

3. Don't worry about needing to remove the rear grill panel before removing and installing the gearboxes as it is not necessary and the boxes come in and out with ease. I glued mine in place and have no gaps between the hull and grill now.

4. Drivability of the TD control system is mediocre, yes. Their added inertia is not to most people's liking. I swapped mine out for a HL 7.1 and the M60 now drives great.

Agree with you both regarding driving. I also installed a HL 7.0.

I have one HL 7.0 radio set on order now. Thanks Rubicon99 and SoCalBobS. Current upgrade include magnetization of the chassis and build a plastic platform above the torsion bars.

[Rubicon99]

Had a chance to get the TongDe M60 down to San Diego for the April 2023 tank meet. The field in San Diego is silt and sand combinations and must be driven with care as not to "over pack" the sprockets and road wheels. The TD M60 had no troubles with the terrain and evacuated the silt and sand from the tracks/sprockets with ease. The field was also heavily rutted from recent winter rains so there was ample opportunity to test suspension flex and ditch crosses capabilities. Again the metal TD M60 has absolute no issues and was a pleasure to drive.

Some screen shots from today. Video can also be found on my Instagram @ fsttanks.

[SoCalBobS]

I have the "tan" M60 in the photo and videos. I have an observation for prospective owners. Good tank, good size, good suspension, did well at the field. There are two potential weakness with the TD drive train; the gear boxes, and the sprockets. R99's tank has metal gearboxes and sprockets, I have plastic sprockets and gearboxes, although the gears are metal in both our tanks. In regular driving, my setup is sufficient. However, in the extreme operations we conducted, a gear box has failed. Under load, the motor will run but something is slipping, causing the sprocket not to rotate.

Since R99's M60 has been subjected to substantially more abuse than mine and is running flawlessly, my solution is clear: replace the plastic gear boxes with metal, and that solution has been ordered.

The other flaw I mentioned is the sprocket itself. Mine and R99's are fine. The story here is that when I originally got my tank, there was gearbox damage maybe from the factory or more likely during shipping. This would cause severe jamming, and put stress on the sprocket which ultimately cracked where it fit on the axle. Although this has not reoccurred to me, or at all to R99's metal setup, my preemptive solution is to also obtain metal sprockets. I won't install them unless the plastic ones beak, but it's "better to have them and not need them then....."

I recommend buyers add metal gearboxes and sprockets. I'll let R99 address the relative merits of metal roadwheels, etc., so buyers can decide whether to get the standard tank plus extras, or full metal setups. We both are very happy with the product, with the above provisos.

Oh, and in the photo with my tan tank, it had no trouble extricating itself from that ditch!

[SoCalBobS]

Update:

The key word in the previous post is "slipping". I could run the motor, hold the track still and listen to a slipping noise. There's only one spot in the gear train that can slip and not grind. Motor pinion gear! Sure enough, I removed it, aligned it with my gear puller and after four or five twists, it slid right off. So, two things: I have half a dozen or so loose Heng Long motors, left over from upgrades. I also have some Red Loctite. This time I chose the latter and Loctite'ed it. It takes 24 hours to cure, so I'll have to wait to see if it grabs enough. Now, the TD and HL motors look identical externally. The pinion gears are the same size and the same number of teeth. If option A doesn't work, I'll just replace the motors.

I share this in case anyone encounters the same issue. Good luck, everyone!

Oh, on another topic: DKLM posted a video demonstrating how to tweak the torsion bars, which would raise the tank if desired. I may have to do this if I replace the plastic gearboxes with heavier metal ones. It's dirt simple, take a look.

[Rubicon99]

Got my second M60A3 in today that will be used as donor chassis for an upcoming M60A2 "starship" build.

I ordered the all plastic version, two sets of plastic tracks and metal gearboxes to replace the stock plastic ones. When it arrived I saw that the spare track I ordered were "chevron" tracks which have not been offered yet in plastic (very pleasant surprise as these are what I wanted more) but there was no metal gearboxes included in the packaging. Thinking they might have stuffed them in with the tank, I pulled the tank out of the box, no metal gearboxes there either.

BUT then I saw something exciting. The all plastic tank I ordered came with the metal suspension arms not plastic ones!!!

So where were the metal gearboxes I ordered? They were finally located installed in the tank!!

I don't know why it was sent with metal suspension arms and the gearboxes installed but I am not complaining as this is how they should all come standard.

A few other notes. The battery and speaker now have mounting brackets and are secured tightly in place.

I am pleased to see that TongDe is listening to feedback and making changes that improved their products.

Photos of the gearboxes, suspension arms, chevron tracks and new internal brackets.