TD M60 A3 review.

[Rubicon99]

Bearings for the plastic TD M60.

The bearings size for the TD plastic M60 wheels and idlers is 4x7x2.5mm. I am using sealed bearings I bought off Amazon shown below.

I did not buy flange bearings, I think that flange bearings might improve the wheel performance even further if used on the back side of the wheels as they would eliminate all remaining movement "in/out" if one desires absolutely perfection.

Note: TD did NOT use flange bearings in the "metal" wheels the little in/out movement there is has had no effect on track retention performance.

[Grandpa53]

Grandpa53 here, it's been a long time since I posted anything and it was good to see my old friends SoCal and R99. I have been heavily involved with my tanks again lately and started up a new YouTube channel. I have 26 tanks now and love everyone of them. I have been highly lusting over the propect of finding a M48 or M60. I have been reading the thead for the past hour and there is no option but to buy the TDM60. I'll place the order for the plastic version this Wednesday for my 70th birthday present and my SS check gets in the same day. I'll order the recommended upgrades too. Thank all of you for doing such excellent research concerning one of my favorite tanks. I have needed an M60 and now I'll have one that will perform better than if I just bought one and ran it out of the box. Thanks, and I'll let you know when it arrives.

[keilau]

Grandpa53 here, it's been a long time since I posted anything and it was good to see my old friends SoCal and R99. I have been heavily involved with my tanks again lately and started up a new YouTube channel. I have 26 tanks now and love everyone of them. I have been highly lusting over the propect of finding a M48 or M60. I have been reading the thead for the past hour and there is no option but to buy the TDM60. I'll place the order for the plastic version this Wednesday for my 70th birthday present and my SS check gets in the same day. I'll order the recommended upgrades too. Thank all of you for doing such excellent research concerning one of my favorite tanks. I have needed an M60 and now I'll have one that will perform better than if I just bought one and ran it out of the box. Thanks, and I'll let you know when it arrives.

You would like to read the companion review at RC Universe too.

https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-tanks-369/11706258-tongeda-m60-patton-tank-review.html

[SoCalBobS]

Grandpa53 here, it's been a long time since I posted anything and it was good to see my old friends SoCal and R99. I have been heavily involved with my tanks again lately and started up a new YouTube channel. I have 26 tanks now and love everyone of them. I have been highly lusting over the propect of finding a M48 or M60. I have been reading the thead for the past hour and there is no option but to buy the TDM60. I'll place the order for the plastic version this Wednesday for my 70th birthday present and my SS check gets in the same day. I'll order the recommended upgrades too. Thank all of you for doing such excellent research concerning one of my favorite tanks. I have needed an M60 and now I'll have one that will perform better than if I just bought one and ran it out of the box. Thanks, and I'll let you know when it arrives.

Long story short, make sure you get the metal gearboxes. They'll be more rigid than the plastic cased ones, hence more reliable.

[Grandpa53]

Thanks, will do.

[Rubicon99]

Grandpa53 here, it's been a long time since I posted anything and it was good to see my old friends SoCal and R99. I have been heavily involved with my tanks again lately and started up a new YouTube channel. I have 26 tanks now and love everyone of them. I have been highly lusting over the propect of finding a M48 or M60. I have been reading the thead for the past hour and there is no option but to buy the TDM60. I'll place the order for the plastic version this Wednesday for my 70th birthday present and my SS check gets in the same day. I'll order the recommended upgrades too. Thank all of you for doing such excellent research concerning one of my favorite tanks. I have needed an M60 and now I'll have one that will perform better than if I just bought one and ran it out of the box. Thanks, and I'll let you know when it arrives.

Just my .02

Overall you are actually better off just buying the metal version. When you add the extra cost of metal gearboxes and then adding bearings (something you will want to do) to a plastic version the price comes out to be almost the same. You can buy plastic tracks to replace the heavy metal one if you deem them necessary for your needs at a later time when stock becomes more available.

Having both the metal and plastic(needs a lot of upgrades) versions I can say the metal one was the better dollar value of the two.

[keilau]

I am still waiting for the metal gearbox, sproket and idler from DKLM-HK. I will be lucky to get all the metal parts by end of May.

Finally, get the TongDe M60 prepared internally and magneted up for test runs. This is the slowest 1:16 scale RC tank I currently have! It is pathetic. I have not done any test to pinpoint the problem yet. The gearbox ratio too high? The TongDe 380 too slow? @Robicon99 already tried red390 and it does not fit. The Tamiya380 and Torro Black380 will help a little, but probably not enough.

I plan to test a Mabuchi RS-380SH-4528 Motor which is spec to run 25200rpm at 7.4 volts. Anybody has tried this motor before?

Put the M60 on my 2x4 dynamo for some speed measurements. It has a track rpm of 45.2 which translates to a scale speed of 25.2 mph. It is about the same as the stock HL Pershing of 23 mph. It is slightly less than the highway speed of M60 at 30 mph. I estimate the TD gearbox has the same 1:39 gear ratio as the HL gearbox.

My preception of RC tank speed is biased after putting 3 pairs of 390 motors on my HL tanks (Leopard 2A6, Pershing and T-34/85. 25 mph for a cold war era tank is not bad. The real M60 usually went at about 10 mph on rough battlefield. I plan to put a Tamiya380 on the TD metal gearbox which should get it 31 mph scale speed.

[Rubicon99]

Put the M60 on my 2x4 dynamo for some speed measurements. It has a track rpm of 45.2 which translates to a scale speed of 25.2 mph. It is about the same as the stock HL Pershing of 23 mph. It is slightly less than the highway speed of M60 at 30 mph. I estimate the TD gearbox has the same 1:39 gear ratio as the HL gearbox.

My preception of RC tank speed is biased after putting 4 390 motors on my HL tanks. 25 mph for a cold war era tank is not bad. They usually went at about 10 mph on rough battle field. I plan to put a Tamiya380 on the TD metal gearbox which should get it 31 mph scale speed.

You will see a jump in overall performance once you swap out to the metal gearboxes and install improved motors, especially if you are running a battery with more then 7.2v of peak power.

[SoCalBobS]

I had a chuckle over my M60. I'd just finished installing red motors on my three modern tanks - Abrams, Leopard and Challenger - and I needed to do some stuff on the M60. Afterwards I ran it - so slowwwww! I won't upgrade it, since as was mentioned the real one isn't a dragster either. I figure on the battlefield the enemy will end up coming to me anyway.

[keilau]

You will see a jump in overall performance once you swap out to the metal gearboxes and install improved motors, especially if you are running a battery with more then 7.2v of peak power.

I am using lithium ion packs exclusively since they keep above 8 volt for 1/3 of the discharge cycle and do not drop below 7.4 volts until the last 20-30%. I have 4 Tamiya380 which all run at 17500 rpm, compared to the 13-14000 rpm of the stock HL grey 380. That alone gives a 20% speed boost. The Tamiya380 has small bearings that significantly lower friction and allows it to run cooler.

[Grandpa53]

Ok, I pulled the trigger on the TDM60. I went thru Amazon Prime for the distributor out if Canada and they said it will arrive between June 2nd - 22rd. I hope it's the newer stock with the updated foam (H/L style) packaging. I didn't see R99 advice about purchasing the metal version until I bought it. I went back the Amazon and I saw only one option for the M60A3 so I don't think its metal. It was $369 but prime didn't add any shipping in the cart when I checked out so I assume the shipping was free. They did add sales tax however. I'm going to order the metal gearbox SCBob and 380blk motors and the bearings R99 suggested plus other things like spockets etc. I'll need to look back thru the feeds so I don't miss the upgrades you'all recommended. I appreciate that very much.

I'm excited to get the M60 for my 70th birthday present to myself and I'm still goofey enough to enjoy the rc models with my grandsons.

[SoCalBobS]

[QUOTE=I'm excited to get the M60 for my 70th birthday present to myself and I'm still goofey enough to enjoy the rc models with my grandsons.[/QUOTE]

You'll have fun out of the box, and then upgrades and maintenance are a way to keep your interest high. Here's a photo to enhance your anticipation until yours arrives. One note of caution apropos your comment about your grandsons though; these r/c tanks are not "bullet proof". There are a lots of parts, and over-rough handling can break things.

[keilau]

Ok, I pulled the trigger on the TDM60. I went thru Amazon Prime for the distributor out if Canada and they said it will arrive between June 2nd - 22rd. I hope it's the newer stock with the updated foam (H/L style) packaging. I didn't see R99 advice about purchasing the metal version until I bought it. I went back the Amazon and I saw only one option for the M60A3 so I don't think its metal. It was $369 but prime didn't add any shipping in the cart when I checked out so I assume the shipping was free. They did add sales tax however. I'm going to order the metal gearbox SCBob and 380blk motors and the bearings R99 suggested plus other things like spockets etc. I'll need to look back thru the feeds so I don't miss the upgrades you'all recommended. I appreciate that very much.

I'm excited to get the M60 for my 70th birthday present to myself and I'm still goofey enough to enjoy the rc models with my grandsons.

How did you find an Amazon Prime seller for Tongde 1/16 scale RC tank? I am a prime member, but it does not turn up any prime seller. The only seller on Amazon is called Topoo who changes $200 plus (added to total) for shipping from China. He does the same for Heng Long RC tanks too. I do not buy from non-prime seller on Amazon because the difficulty in returning item. Let us know how your Amazon purchase turns out.

I purchased my Tongde M60 from Nova Hobby in Canada. The experience is very pleasant. You can see post #64 for more details.

[keilau]

Put the M60 on my 2x4 dynamo for some speed measurements. It has a track rpm of 45.2 which translates to a scale speed of 25.2 mph. It is about the same as the stock HL Pershing of 23 mph. It is slightly less than the highway speed of M60 at 30 mph. I estimate the TD gearbox has the same 1:39 gear ratio as the HL gearbox.

My preception of RC tank speed is biased after putting 3 pairs of 390 motors on my HL tanks (Leopard 2A6, Pershing and T-34/85. 25 mph for a cold war era tank is not bad. The real M60 usually went at about 10 mph on rough battlefield. I plan to put a Tamiya380 on the TD metal gearbox which should get it 31 mph scale speed.

While waiting for the delivery of the TD metal gearbox, sprocket/wheel, I take an inventory of my 380 motors. I used to have a bunch of Tamiya380 around, but now have only one left. I also have a pair of Torro Black 380 which are leftover from my Pershing project.

I test the Black380 for the first time since I acquired them with the Torro Series 2 ball bearing gearbox (for the Pershing). To my disappointment, the Black380 runs at 15400 rpm when powered by 8.0 volts battery. By comparison, the one Tamiya380 runs at 19500 rpm. No, it is not a typo. I am ordering more Tamiya380 to get a matched pair. The Tamiya380 had been my favorite since it runs much cooler than the HL380 (by 20 degrees F).

[Rubicon99]

While waiting for the delivery of the TD metal gearbox, sprocket/wheel, I take an inventory of my 380 motors. I used to have a bunch of Tamiya380 around, but now have only one left. I also have a pair of Torro Black 380 which are leftover from my Pershing project.

I test the Black380 for the first time since I acquired them with the Torro Series 2 ball bearing gearbox (for the Pershing). To my disappointment, the Black380 runs at 15400 rpm when powered by 8.0 volts battery. By comparison, the one Tamiya380 runs at 19500 rpm. No, it is not a typo. I am ordering more Tamiya380 to get a matched pair. The Tamiya380 had been my favorite since it runs much cooler than the HL380 (by 20 degrees F).

The Taigen 380 motors have less RPMS, but typically slightly higher torque performance then the Tamiya. On the M60 since "modern" maximum top end (45 mph+) speed is not realistic and given the size of the tanks extra wide tracks, having more torque for turning might be a slightly better option especially if you run in grass or soft soils. Still you can't go wrong with Tamiya motors if that's the way you end up going.

[keilau]

The Taigen 380 motors have less RPMS, but typically slightly higher torque performance then the Tamiya. On the M60 since "modern" maximum top end (45 mph+) speed is not realistic and given the size of the tanks extra wide tracks, having more torque for turning might be a slightly better option especially if you run in grass or soft soils. Still you can't go wrong with Tamiya motors if that's the way you end up going.

I expect both motor to have enough torque to run on short glass lawn. The Tamiya will give me 31 mph scale speed vs. 25 mph with the black. Feels pretty slow when I am used to 390 motor driven tanks. But it is realistic.

[Rubicon99]

While waiting for the delivery of the TD metal gearbox, sprocket/wheel, I take an inventory of my 380 motors. I used to have a bunch of Tamiya380 around, but now have only one left. I also have a pair of Torro Black 380 which are leftover from my Pershing project.

I test the Black380 for the first time since I acquired them with the Torro Series 2 ball bearing gearbox (for the Pershing). To my disappointment, the Black380 runs at 15400 rpm when powered by 8.0 volts battery. By comparison, the one Tamiya380 runs at 19500 rpm. No, it is not a typo. I am ordering more Tamiya380 to get a matched pair. The Tamiya380 had been my favorite since it runs much cooler than the HL380 (by 20 degrees F).

The Taigen 380 motors have less RPMS, but typically slightly higher torque performance then the Tamiya. On the M60 since "modern" maximum top end (45 mph+) speed is not realistic and given the size of the tanks extra wide tracks, having more torque for turning might be a slightly better option especially if you run in grass or soft soils. Still you can't go wrong with Tamiya motors if that's the way you end up going.

[keilau]

The more I play with the Tongde M60A1, the more upscale features I find. In addition to the torsion bar suspension, there are the barrel recoil servo and the cannon lifting servo. I paid $230 shipped for the Tongde. The torsion bar and servos are only found in $400 plus Heng Long version of the latest model. Yes, I am very impressed with this "toy grade" Tongde. BTW, the Tongde chassis construction is sturdy.

I also cancelled my order for the HL TK-7.0 radio. Only the HL 7.1 radio has connection for the 2 servos. I will stay with the TD radio for now.

[Rubicon99]

The more I play with the Tongde M60A1, the more upscale features I find. In addition to the torsion bar suspension, there are the barrel recoil servo and the cannon lifting servo. I paid $230 shipped for the Tongde. The torsion bar and servos are only found in $400 plus Heng Long version of the latest model. Yes, I am very impressed with this "toy grade" Tongde. BTW, the Tongde chassis construction is sturdy.

Did yours come with servo recoil and elevation? If so did you also get a different control system because the stock TD system is not set up to handle servos. Or was that something you added? If so can you post photos I would be interested to see what servo and elevation recoil they are using.

[keilau]

Did yours come with servo recoil and elevation? If so did you also get a different control system because the stock TD system is not set up to handle servos. Or was that something you added? If so can you post photos I would be interested to see what servo and elevation recoil they are using.

My TD tank comes the servos. They are connected to CH1 and CH2 (not the CN's) on the receiver MB. I have checked that they work properly. These are stock features as received.

The TD design seems to be still evolving because on my TD Instruction Manual, the CH1 and CH2 port are listed, but not shown in the corresponding picture.

Tomorrow, I will take a picture of the MB in my tank and post it side by side with the manual picture of the receiver motherboard.