TD M60 A3 review.

[Barmonkey]

Nice lineup!

[keilau]

A few updates. The M60 continues to run well and I have a few new parts from JVM3Dconcepts for the M60 to show. If you are interested in one or both contact me via a PM.

First the are the replacement torsion bar "lock down covers" these are made of engineering resin which is rather strong material.

I ordered a set of the torsion bar brackets which arrived 2 days ago.

The brackets look very good and feels strong. I test fit one on the left side. It does not lay flat like the original TD bracket. I mic all the dimensions of the new bracket. Everything is spot on. But I have to push down really hard to screw it on. The suspension feels stiffer, but seems to work. All the pieces on the left side is like that. The pieces on the right hand side are easy drop in fits.

One bracket on each side is under the gearbox, making it necessary to remove the gearbox fo complete the installation. Rich Johnson shipped the brackets with high quality M3 machine screws. It is necessary to replace the soft mounting screws with harden steel ones. I use some flat head instead of the pan head ones. I have a thin plastic platform for the internal parts and it is hurting in vertical space.

[Rubicon99]

I ordered a set of the torsion bar brackets which arrived 2 days ago.

The brackets look very good and feels strong. I test fit one on the left side. It does not lay flat like the original TD bracket. I mic all the dimensions of the new bracket. Everything is spot on. But I have to push down really hard to screw it on. The suspension feels stiffer, but seems to work. All the pieces on the left side is like that. The pieces on the right hand side are easy drop in fits.

One bracket on each side is under the gearbox, making it necessary to remove the gearbox fo complete the installation. Rich Johnson shipped the brackets with high quality M3 machine screws. It is necessary to replace the soft mounting screws with harden steel ones. I use some flat head instead of the pan head ones. I have a thin plastic platform for the internal parts and it is hurting in vertical space.

The issues are with the TD hulls. The hull material was changed to a completely different plastic compound. So at this time there are older white hulls like your and new black hulls. The material changes and methods of processing the hulls cause them to be slightly inconsistent from hull batch to hull batch. This makes it challenging to manufacture aftermarket parts. The parts need to fit all the hulls so a middle ground dimension had to be utilized. This means some hull will have tight fits some will not and some a mix.

Tight torsion are far better then the loose sloppy ones that come from the factory. So having the suspension tighten up is a good thing it means the torsion bar will now be doing their job more effectively.

Word has it TD is working to correct the hull quality control issues. This takes time, but we should see more consistent hull dimensions in the next few batches moving forward.

[keilau]

The issues are with the TD hulls. The hull material was changed to a completely different plastic compound. So at this time there are older white hulls like your and new black hulls. The material changes and methods of processing the hulls cause them to be slightly inconsistent from hull batch to hull batch. This makes it challenging to manufacture aftermarket parts. The parts need to fit all the hulls so a middle ground dimension had to be utilized. This means some hull will have tight fits some will not and some a mix.

Tight torsion are far better then the loose sloppy ones that come from the factory. So having the suspension tighten up is a good thing it means the torsion bar will now be doing their job more effectively.

Word has it TD is working to correct the hull quality control issues. This takes time, but we should see more consistent hull dimensions in the next few batches moving forward.

I have mixed feelings about the Tongde M60A1. The subject selection and basic design approach are excellent. The implementation of manufacturing processes, including materials and hardware selection, were terrible. Tongde received from their consultant an upscale design similar to the HL Merkava with features such as torsion bar suspension. But Tongde is determined to sell the tank at under $200, not the $400 upscale market. When they cannot even select the correct gear shape on the drive motors, I wonder who were the people working at Tongde? Their cost cutting approach really soured me to loose all confidence in them.

I admit that I still have lots of fun working on the Patton. But the process is not enjoyable. I have a screw extractor set sitting at the bottom of my tool shelf for many years. I used it 3 times since I started on the Patton. My screw drivers are all premium one with hardened tip and in tip top condition.

I will be watching for your recommendation on improvements they make before I will consider the acquisition of another Tongde RC tank.

[Rubicon99]

I have mixed feelings about the Tongde M60A1. The subject selection and basic design approach are excellent. The implementation of manufacturing processes, including materials and hardware selection, were terrible. Tongde received from their consultant an upscale design similar to the HL Merkava with features such as torsion bar suspension. But Tongde is determined to sell the tank at under $200, not the $400 upscale market. When they cannot even select the correct gear shape on the drive motors, I wonder who were the people working at Tongde? Their cost cutting approach really soured me to loose all confidence in them.

I admit that I still have lots of fun working on the Patton. But the process is not enjoyable. I have a screw extractor set sitting at the bottom of my tool shelf for many years. I used it 3 times since I started on the Patton. My screw drivers are all premium one with hardened tip and in tip top condition.

I will be watching for your recommendation on improvements they make before I will consider the acquisition of another Tongde RC tank.

I would absolutely agree they had questionable counseling and missed the market sweet spot in price vs overall quality ~ $300. They seem to realize this now and are bringing on more qualified consultants who understand the hobby end of the market. TD will like HL tanks always be a toy first, but with the ability like HL to easily be more if one wants.

Believe me TD has and does read the reviews and is taking notes. We have to keep in mind Chinese manufacturing culture responds to soft suggestions far better then hard criticism, especially from its western customers.

The TD M60 needs work in a few areas as I mentioned in my prior review, but once those minor tweaks are made it is quite a solid running tank. In fact mine runs better then any HL tanks I have of similar size and weight and I am known to be quite abusive to my tanks. So please don't give up on yours it is truly still a diamond in the rough.

[keilau]

The TD M60 needs work in a few areas as I mentioned in my prior review, but once those minor tweaks are made it is quite a solid running tank. In fact mine runs better then any HL tanks I have of similar size and weight and I am known to be quite abusive to my tanks. So please don't give up on yours it is truly still a diamond in the rough.

How important is the metal rocker arms for the wheels.

I was hoping such small parts to be not too expensive. But for Tongde, they are expensive plus high shipping.

[Rubicon99]

How important is the metal rocker arms for the wheels.

I was hoping such small parts to be not too expensive. But for Tongde, they are expensive plus high shipping.

Honestly they are super important. The plastic ones are rather weak especially if you add more torque to gain "ride height". From what I understand TD will soon be discontinuing the plastic suspension arms and going to all metal as standard. The plastic ones were most likely the idea of the former adviser as a way to keep the price point down.

If you get the metal arms also consider investing in a set of bearing for them and the road wheels. The bearings really make a difference in keeping the wheels from wobbling which in turn greatly improves the overall handling and track retention properties.

[keilau]

Honestly they are super important. The plastic ones are rather weak especially if you add more torque to gain "ride height". From what I understand TD will soon be discontinuing the plastic suspension arms and going to all metal as standard. The plastic ones were most likely the idea of the former adviser as a way to keep the price point down.

If you get the metal arms also consider investing in a set of bearing for them and the road wheels. The bearings really make a difference in keeping the wheels from wobbling which in turn greatly improves the overall handling and track retention properties.

I came to the same conclusion when I installed the torsion bar brackets. The plastic rocker arms look very filmy. So far, I found several sellers for the complete metal road wheel, tracks and rocker arm package, but not the rocker arms only.

[Rubicon99]

I came to the same conclusion when I installed the torsion bar brackets. The plastic rocker arms look very filmy. So far, I found several sellers for the complete metal road wheel, tracks and rocker arm package, but not the rocker arms only.

DKLM has the arms separately at least I believe I saw them there separately. If you can't find them on their site just send them an email and they should be able to help you. That is how I ordered extra plastic tracks that are not listed anywhere online. But don't expect a fast reply unless you email them through Facebook. They seem to monitor Facebook more then their actual business mail.

[tank_me]

@Rubicon99,

Quick question for you. I'm breaking down my M60A2 for paint and was curious about whether or not you have had any issues with the rubber coming off the metal wheels on your M60s? Just trying to decide if I should use my black Loctite to glue them on. You have a lot more hours running them in the dirt than I do at this point. I know my Mato PZ3 tires come off quite a bit so once that is fully painted I will be gluing those on. With metal wheels, if I had to remove the glue and cut off the tires it probably wouldn't be that big of a problem unless of course I can't get replacements.

Thanks,

Derek

[Rubicon99]

@Rubicon99,

Quick question for you. I'm breaking down my M60A2 for paint and was curious about whether or not you have had any issues with the rubber coming off the metal wheels on your M60s? Just trying to decide if I should use my black Loctite to glue them on. You have a lot more hours running them in the dirt than I do at this point. I know my Mato PZ3 tires come off quite a bit so once that is fully painted I will be gluing those on. With metal wheels, if I had to remove the glue and cut off the tires it probably wouldn't be that big of a problem unless of course I can't get replacements.

Thanks,

Derek

I have had absolutely no issues with the rubber coming off the 12 main road wheels on either the metal (A3) or plastic (A2) wheels

The idlers wheels though I have had a couple of issues while backing up and turning hard in soft soil. The soil did not clear fast enough from the tracks, packed the guide tooth slot between the wheels and then the track lifted off the idler wheel pulling the inside section of rubber off. I have since "glued" the rubber on the idler wheels and have not experienced any further issues.

I have also driven a fair amount alongside RichJohnson and SoCalBob with their M60s and don't recall either of them having issues with then.

Current state of road wheels.

[RichJohnson]

Something I discovered recently and Brought to Rubicon's attention and he confirmed he has noticed similar issues.
I have been breaking in my Slick M60 as I call it, (Early 1960 original issue M60 with the round turret) and I notice that it often makes a loud distinct clicking sound from the area of both sprockets. Now and then, one track would lock up and the tank would jerk to the side while driving. I would let off the throttle and then throttle back up and the problem would go away.
I have been trying to watch for this problem to occur to track it down but it doesnt happen often enough to be on top of the issue. When it does, letting off the throttle makes it go away instantly.

At first I was suspecting it was the design of the single pin track just tracking into the sprocket and the center guide. I painted the sprocket and center guide rings so I though maybe it was the guide teeth tracking and popping into the guide rings. At this time I dont know if this is an issue or not but I did finally determine what causes this momentary lock up of the tracks.

As you can see in the picture below. I was traversing a ravine and the track on one side locked up and I knew I had my chance to investigate it further. I held the throttle down to maintain the track tension and then transitioned to a left turn to so just the right track was powered to maintain the track jam and I lifted the tank up and leaned it over to start taking pictures.
Below you can see my red circle where I determined that the track can shift side to side just a little and when the track shifts to the inside at just the right moment, the end connectors of the track can catch on the sharp corner of the hull just in front of the sprocket causing this jam.

I have not had the chance to open my Slick 60 up yet and investigate but Rubicon went right too it after our discussion and confirmed some scuffed paint in that area so he employed the solution we discussed by lightly filing the corner down to a curve, just under the fender height where track runs past it to help the track slip past if it moves over and starts to catch.
So far he said he has not had a bind yet. I plan to make this simple modification in the coming days and get back out on the field and drive and hopefully not experience any more little track jam issues.

[tank_me]

I'll probably put a radius on there seeing that. Thanks.

[Rubicon99]

I'll probably put a radius on there seeing that. Thanks.

Thats what I did and also on the hull above it. I was having the same issue though not as bad on my M60A2. Interestingly though not on my M60A3. Wondering if it is because of the hull material change to the black "nylon" plastic material used in the newer M60s of which both my A2 and Rich's M60 are. The black plastic hulls seem to be slightly dimensional different then the older white plastic hulls.

[Grandpa53]

Thanks for checking in Keilau. The tracking said to expect the M60 to arrive between June 2-26th. Sadly it has not arrived as of today. Now when checking with Amazon it just says "running late". When I hit the "tracking" button and update, it just said it was picked up by shipper on May 11th with no other updates. To be frank Im alittle concerned. I would feel better if there were any updates of any kind. I hope it shows up soon. 1) I want my M60 2) I'm getting pretty jealous of all you great tankers showing off and all the cool upgrades you guys are implementing. At least when I get mine I'll have a tried and proven recipe for a rock solid M60. Thanks again for wanting an update.....PS...If any of you really get board you can check out our YouTube channel called "Grandpas Hobby Garage ". We have a bunch of rc tanks and some other stuff running around. I don't know if any of our videos are any good, but we sure have a lot of fun shooting them!!

[keilau]

Thanks for checking in Keilau. The tracking said to expect the M60 to arrive between June 2-26th. Sadly it has not arrived as of today. Now when checking with Amazon it just says "running late". When I hit the "tracking" button and update, it just said it was picked up by shipper on May 11th with no other updates. To be frank Im alittle concerned. I would feel better if there were any updates of any kind. I hope it shows up soon. 1) I want my M60 2) I'm getting pretty jealous of all you great tankers showing off and all the cool upgrades you guys are implementing. At least when I get mine I'll have a tried and proven recipe for a rock solid M60. Thanks again for wanting an update.....PS...If any of you really get board you can check out our YouTube channel called "Grandpas Hobby Garage ". We have a bunch of rc tanks and some other stuff running around. I don't know if any of our videos are any good, but we sure have a lot of fun shooting them!!

I think that the Amazon customer service will be helpful in your case if you request a cancellation. There is no reason for such long delay and no tracking information. The Amazon seller may be just a middle man who had no control of the actual seller in China.

If you want a metal version M60, DKLMRC.com seems to be the only source. They are not fast, but very reliable. If you will consider the basic version, BangGood is a good alternative.

https://www.banggood.com/CoolBank-Model-US-M60A3-1-or-16-2_4G-RC-Tank-Battle-w-or-Lighting-Smoking-Sound-Shoot-Balls-Off-Road-Vehicles-Toys-p-1977558.html?cur_warehouse=CN&rmmds=search

[Grandpa53]

I'll give it another couple days. In the mean time I'll take your advise and get the Amazon customer service involed to see if they can give me some solid intel. Thanks again!

[keilau]

I'll give it another couple days. In the mean time I'll take your advise and get the Amazon customer service involed to see if they can give me some solid intel. Thanks again!

i have been doing metal upgrades to the TD M60A1. I am very frustrated by the low quality plastic, metal cast and hardware that TD use on the tank. The best way to drive the quality up and the price down is to help TD to get a bigger market share. Particularly, to get an established retailer to stock the tank and parts in the US. Until then, the price is high and there is little incentive for Tongde to improve quality.

[Rubicon99]

i have been doing metal upgrades to the TD M60A1. I am very frustrated by the low quality plastic, metal cast and hardware that TD use on the tank. The best way to drive the quality up and the price down is to help TD to get a bigger market share. Particularly, to get an established retailer to stock the tank and parts in the US. Until then, the price is high and there is little incentive for Tongde to improve quality.

TD is listening and they are making changes. But until the changes actually start to show up and build a reputation of reasonable reliability we will not see a US supplier.

The all plastic suspension is being deleted and TD is going with the all metal suspension with plastic wheels as standard from what we have been told. All that is needed is swapping out the plastic wheel and suspension arm bushings to bearings which I did on my M60A2 build. Once that is done you have something now on par with what Tamiya does in their tanks.

The metal suspension arms are on par with HL arms in quality and overall the steel gearboxes are superior to the HL steel boxes except for the motors pion gear mesh and maybe the mounting screw. Although out of the four M60 I have seen locally no one has had issues with the screws.

The metal track are superior to HL metal track used on their modern tanks. TD tracks have fully supported pins and are not hallow. This make them extremely strong, but it also makes them VERY heavy and does cause the motors to work harder then they should. I dumped my metal tracks in favor of plastic tracks for this reason on my M60A3 and ordered my second M60 without them(custom request which TD was willing to do).

The metal M60 sprockets are not as good as HL sprockets in design and fit, but they do work well. If any metal part I had a real complaint about it would be the metal sprockets for their fit. They seem to all need a bit of attention to make them fit well.

Over I am really happy with my TD M60A3 and A2 they are both excellent running tanks that have been proving rather tough and capable. Sure they needed a little tweak here and there but then so do all the HL tanks I have owned and in fact the TD M60s have required fewer tweaks overall then some of the newer modern HL tanks need to run as well as the TD M60s.

[tank_me]

I've had a few issues during my disassembly where the screws strip out of the plastic really easy. I will probably have to shove styrene rod in each of my support roller holes, drill them out, and re-tap them. Takes like zero torque to strip them.