Official RotorScale UH-1A Medic Green 450 Size Helicopter Discussion Thread

[Tooeleflyboy]

All I can say is once you get these little 450's setup correctly with a good flight controller they are a blast. Even on a less then perfect day with 20mph gust! Mine has a Brain 2 in it, Yes a bit costly for an inexpensive heli but you cant put a price on fun right ? Lol

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=rotorscale+as350

[Tom]

Cyclone 7, I'm unsure why you say that. We've been using it on many 450 models used during testing for hundreds of flights per model - never had an issue in this application but we have not tried in other applications. We've been in contact with the developer and support team. Remember, these are not 3D helis. These are scale helis - a potentially different application and a different size compared to what you may be speaking of. Also note this is not a ZYX. This is a ZYXS2. We work very hard to design properly and test, test, test, and test again. We all have our opinions and preferences. There are many interlaced variables with helos that don't exist in airplanes. There are at least ten points of a helo setup that are potentially unique, and a handful of paths for each of those points that are different but will ultimately end up with a heli a specific person likes.

[Cyclone 7]

The ZYX gyro(and its variants) is really not up to scratch and never has been - that is the uncomfortable truth of the matter.

[ridgerunner]

Ridgerunner, We know you need 8 degrees of offset for a large heli using a Bavarian Demon. We think an 8 degree offset on this 450 using the Tarot would cause tail drift but have not tried it. We talked to the Tarot support team and were told to use a 0 degree offset. I feel a little caught in the middle and please don't think I'm saying you are wrong or challenging your knowledge. Just trying to get to the bottom of it. Have you tied both an 8 degree and 0 degree offset with the Tarot? This heli was designed with a 90 degree pitch lever. I'm told by the designer this was intended for a 0 degree offset. We had many of these out flying with 0 degree offset including the one used by James in his video. Again, we have not tried setting it at 8 degrees so I'm curious what you find.

On the gain (AVCS Head Hold), we set it slightly high to start knowing we would need to dial it back. We neglected to mention this in the video and will edit and mention that. We expected a little wag and dialed it back a few clicks and eventually settled on 58. Thanks for mentioning that.

First note I am going to be flying this in both rate mode and heading hold gyro modes. Also, a disclaimer: I have not yet flown this heli and I have never actually flown with any ZYX gyro. In fact, I have only recently graduated up to the 450 class after having flown only micros for the past six years. I do however, have a pretty deep understanding of the physics, electronics and software/firmware aspects of collective pitch RC helicopters having spent years devouring all of the knowledge I can from HeliFreak and other sources. Also note that I am a degreed engineer with decades of work experience in both the aerospace and systems software fields (I am recently retired). To learn about the ZYX-S2 gyro specifically, I recently spent a couple days digesting 5 years worth of posts written on both the gargantuan ZYX thread over on RCGroups and the Advanced ZYX tuning and troubleshooting thread on HeliFreak. In other words, I have a lot of book knowledge on the subject but very little hands on experience with this unit.

That said, it is my understanding that the proper way to optimize the tail setup (for all helis sizes and all FBL controllers), is to first adjust the rudder linkage such that with the gyro set to rate mode and a lowish gain, the heli does not rotate in yaw (and will weathervane into any prevailing wind) when the Tx is sending out zero on the rudder channel, and the rudder servo horn is 90° to the linkage. To achieve this, the tail blades will have some amount of pre-set AOA to counter the rotor torque in a hover. This value is determined through trial and error, but the 8° value specified in the ZYX-S2 manual is probably a pretty good starting point. Once the zero torque balance point is established in rate mode, the plus and minus travel limits are then set to the maximum values achievable without binding (and with the ZYX-S2, this is done in the assistant software SETUP->TRAVEL page). Once the center point and limits are established, then the optimal heading hold gyro value is determined by starting off low, then working up to where the tail starts to wag in fast forward flight. Once the wagging point is determined, the gain is then dropped back down a couple clicks to where the wagging stops.

Although it is true that a tail will hold just fine in heading hold mode with the blades set to zero pitch with the servo arms at 90° and the rudder channel centered, (and many 3D pilots who only fly in heading hold do set things up this way), this setup will simply not work in rate mode. If you talk to the scale heli pilots, you will discover that many of them also like to fly in rate mode.

And +58 is still WAY too high for the heading hold gain value - as displayed in the ZYX-assistant SETUP MONITOR page. The channel output value on the Tx is NOT necessarily the same as the value you see on the MONITOR page - (e.g. a CH5 output value of 58 on a 0-100 scale Tx will result in a value of +16 on the MONITOR page and I'm guessing that this is what is happening with whomever is telling you that 58 is a good value).

[Tom]

Ridgerunner, We know you need 8 degrees of offset for a large heli using a Bavarian Demon. We think an 8 degree offset on this 450 using the Tarot would cause tail drift but have not tried it. We talked to the Tarot support team and were told to use a 0 degree offset. I feel a little caught in the middle and please don't think I'm saying you are wrong or challenging your knowledge. Just trying to get to the bottom of it. Have you tied both an 8 degree and 0 degree offset with the Tarot? This heli was designed with a 90 degree pitch lever. I'm told by the designer this was intended for a 0 degree offset. We had many of these out flying with 0 degree offset including the one used by James in his video. Again, we have not tried setting it at 8 degrees so I'm curious what you find.

On the gain (AVCS Head Hold), we set it slightly high to start knowing we would need to dial it back. We neglected to mention this in the video and will edit and mention that. We expected a little wag and dialed it back a few clicks and eventually settled on 58. Thanks for mentioning that.

[ridgerunner]

Thanks so much for the reply, we will take another crack at it. Thanks for taking the time to reply this thoroughly.

Twas my pleasure! I'd recommend actually doing a maiden before calling it good next time eh? ;)

BTW, Yesterday, I figured out how to successfully connect the ZYX-S2 to a FrSky Rx via S-BUS using just one standard servo cable. I did a step-by-step write-up on how to do this and posted it over on RCGroups and HeliFreak.

Keep up the great work guys!

[James]

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh.t.!"

Unfortunately, it is very apparent that James is not a heli guy as his enthusiastic presentation contains a lot of the latter. There are some very poor recommendations given in the video (the excessive gain recommendation is actually unsafe):

• Servos should not be physically connected to the Rx until after the SETUP->SERVO tab on the setup process is completed.
• The gyro gain value of 62 for the GYRO page on the Spekky is WAY too high - (dangerously high actually). It should be adjusted so that it reads about 30 on the MONITOR page of the ZYX assistant. The tail gain parameter should start off on the low side for the maiden, then gradually increased until the tail starts to wag then backed of a couple clicks. I can guarantee you that 62 is way, WAY too high!
• James failed to adjust the subtrims and channel travel limits on the Tx while in the assistant MONITOR screen. All the monitor values should be zero with the controls centered, and reach +/-100 at the gimbal travel limits.
• The TRIM page software adjustments are used to get each of the cyclic servo horns 90° to the linkages. Once this is done, the swash is leveled by adjusting the servo to swash links then zero pitch is set by adjusting the swash to head links.
• Similarly, the rudder should not be trimmed to get the tail blade pitch angle to zero - it should be set to about 8° when the rudder servo arm is at 90°. This is in the manual. Also, the ball on the tail servo arm should be set to about 7.5 mm for a 450 heli - on my AS-350 it is set way too far at 14 mm. Once again, this is in the manual.

I would really love to see the "maiden" of that Huey after the setup shown! (My guess is that the tail would shake uncontrollably before it ever left the ground.)

I know its easy to be critical and I guess the video is better than nothing - but that tail gain recommendation is WAY off (and unsafe). MotionRC really needs to hire a heli expert for this stuff.

All that said, I've purchased three of these new Rotorscale helis and am currently going through them with a fine tooth comb. Overall, I'm very impressed so far with the quality of the scale fuses and I like the mechanics you've chosen (except for the way too slow tail servo). I plan on doing a build/review thread once I get everything sorted.

Thanks again to MotionRC for bringing us these cool new toys! :)

Thanks so much for the reply, we will take another crack at it. Thanks for taking the time to reply this thoroughly.

[ridgerunner]

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullsh.t.!"

Unfortunately, it is very apparent that James is not a heli guy as his enthusiastic presentation contains a lot of the latter. There are some very poor recommendations given in the video (the excessive gain recommendation is actually unsafe):

• Servos should not be physically connected to the Rx until after the SETUP->SERVO tab on the setup process is completed.
• The gyro gain value of 62 for the GYRO page on the Spekky is WAY too high - (dangerously high actually). It should be adjusted so that it reads about +24 for the AUX channel on the MONITOR page of the ZYX assistant. The tail gain parameter should start off on the low side for the maiden, then gradually increased until the tail starts to wag then backed of a couple clicks. I can guarantee you that 62 is way, WAY too high! The 62 value James got from his heli experts is only correct for a Tx where the channel range goes from 0-100 (in this case 0-49 is rate mode and 51-100 is HH and a value of 62 results in a proper tail gain value on the MONITOR screen of 24). But the Spektrum GYRO menu does not use a 0-100 range - it goes from -100 to 100. Thus, a proper value for the Spek GYRO menu would be 24 for the upper/HH value.
• James failed to adjust the subtrims and channel travel limits on the Tx while in the assistant MONITOR screen. All the monitor values should be zero with the controls centered, and reach +/-100 at the gimbal travel limits.
• The TRIM page software adjustments are used to get each of the cyclic servo horns 90° to the linkages. Once this is done, the swash is leveled by adjusting the servo to swash links then zero pitch is set by adjusting the swash to head links.
• Similarly, the rudder should not be trimmed to get the tail blade pitch angle to zero - it should be set to about 8° when the rudder servo arm is at 90°. This is in the manual. Also, the ball on the tail servo arm should be set to about 7.5 mm for a 450 heli - on my AS-350 it is set way too far out at 14 mm. Once again, this is in the manual.

I would really love to see the "maiden" of that Huey after the setup shown! (My guess is that the tail would shake uncontrollably before it ever left the ground.)

I know its easy to be critical and I guess the video is better than nothing - but that tail gain recommendation is WAY off (and unsafe). MotionRC really needs to hire a heli expert for this stuff.

All that said, I've purchased three of these new Rotorscale helis and am currently going through them with a fine tooth comb. Overall, I'm very impressed so far with the quality of the scale fuses and I like the mechanics you've chosen (except for the way too slow Emax ES3054 tail servo). I plan on doing a build/review thread once I get everything sorted.

Thanks again to MotionRC for bringing us these cool new toys! :)

[Alpha]

Icepirate3, yes, Roban has been around for quite some time. These types of molds have a much, much, much shorter lifespan than the steel molds we use for foam, so new identical molds are almost always being produced. The model itself however remains the same. Therein is our opportunity to innovate, if/when we identify something that it worth changing future molds for.

Feedback informs those potential changes, so as always, contact our support team or post here with your requests. So far, based on customer feedback we're currently exploring reinforcements to the landing gear for this model.

[Bajora]

Either that’s one little lady ... or one big heli that she’s working on!

[icepirate3]

Good to know! I just didn't realize that these had been around for so long. Let's get some of those AH-6's across the pond next!;)

[Alpha]

Roban is the original manufacturer. I work out of Roban's factory a few days every month and I've seen the molds and production line with my own eyes many, many times. Roban is one of the few fiberglass helicopter manufacturers, they OEM'd for others in the past.

Here are a few pictures I snapped over the past year of various things that aren't secrets. Enjoy!

[F106DeltaDart]

I know it sais these fuselages are made by Roban but I found this on YouTube from 8 years ago and it's the same exact fuselage. Even has the weird front windows. Did Roban/Rotorscale buy up old HeliArtist fuselages or were they once partners?

I’m not exactly sure on all the details, but heliartist started disappearing about 5 years ago, and the same fuselages started being marketed as Roban. I suspect that Roban made the fuselages from day 1, and that heliartist was a sub-brand or distributor. All of the 450 fuselages and a good portion of the 500/600 fuselages all used to be sold as Heliartist.

[icepirate3]

I know it sais these fuselages are made by Roban but I found this on YouTube from 8 years ago and it's the same exact fuselage. Even has the weird front windows. Did Roban/Rotorscale buy up old HeliArtist fuselages or were they once partners?

[Aros]

Okay folks, the official RotorScale 450 Instruction Manual is now available on the support page of this model or click here for a direct link. Keep in mind this is a working document so check back regularly for any updated information that may be added. We thank you for your patience and understanding.

[Cyclone 7]

Another option, although not as affordable as the Tarot controller, would be using a more “premium” FBL unit like the ikon(brain), Vbar, BeastX, demon, or Spirit. All these units are more expensive, but the software is extremely well written and walks you step by step through the proper setup.

By recommending the Tarot FBL controller, I think that they are setting themselves up for another fail and more tears. I suspect that this was a decision based on the unit's price alone in order to mitigate the changing profile of the product. It is not a good choice for the newcomer and it is certainly not an option that the experienced enthusiast would contemplate who, to be brutal, are more interested in just getting their hands on the fuselages through a 'spares order'.

[F106DeltaDart]

I also posted this in the Admiral helicopter thread.I would really appreciate a step by step tutorial. I received my Huey yesterday and was impressed and overwhelmed at the same time. I have to be honest I was contemplating sending everything back after seeing there was no instruction manual. To top things off setting up the recommended flight controller looked a little complicated for a semi newbie to collective pitch. I have been playing with a Blade 230 prior to this.

Completely understand where you are at, and it certainly isn’t the easiest FBL controller to start out with. Until the official video gets put out, this gives a great tutorial for setting up the tarot unit step by step:

You are going to need to get a few tools for setup if you don’t have them already. These would be a pitch gauge, swash leveling tool, and ball link pliers.

Another option, although not as affordable as the Tarot controller, would be using a more “premium” FBL unit like the ikon(brain), Vbar, BeastX, demon, or Spirit. All these units are more expensive, but the software is extremely well written and walks you step by step through the proper setup.

As for the fuselage, there is a great thread over on RCgroups that walks through the assembly of the fuselage here: https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...-Huey-Fuselage.

[Jhnybgd]

The first batches were 100% tested model by model with the original flight controller that was to be included with the model. However, that is no longer included and instead we recommend the Tarot though it is not included it can be found here https://www.motionrc.com/collections...ght-controller

The manual was completed but referenced the old flight controller. We working on removing those references now while adding other required information. We hope to have that manual available tomorrow. We're also working on a complete video showing the programming and setup with the Tarot flight controller. Sorry for putting the cart ahead of the horse. Since the horse is out of the barn, we're doing a little more chasing than we'd like.

Yeah for me I was excited that these would be reciever ready pnp helicopters.

I know part of the "fun"of helis ar countless hours of putzing with the mechanics and flight controllers.....but not to me

[Wind Spirit]

When will a complete parts list be available?

[handyman220]

I also posted this in the Admiral helicopter thread.I would really appreciate a step by step tutorial. I received my Huey yesterday and was impressed and overwhelmed at the same time. I have to be honest I was contemplating sending everything back after seeing there was no instruction manual. To top things off setting up the recommended flight controller looked a little complicated for a semi newbie to collective pitch. I have been playing with a Blade 230 prior to this helicopter.

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