Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

TheRealBrenner Registered Users Thread Starter Join Date: Mar 2024 Location: USA, Michigan

I found Someone to Rewind Motors for Me... I found someone local to the United States to rewind motors for me. Hugh Hargett from North Carolina has rewound a ten-pole Pyro 600 for me, and I have successfully tested it in my Hui Yang Advantage Biplane. Hugh's rewound motor runs very well. The performance is identical to that of Bert Dekker's motors. The efficiency is also very good. I can't properly judge motor efficiency without flying the motor on separate days under different weather conditions because there was very little wind, and the amplitude and direction of the wind significantly affect power consumption. However, with very little wind, I recorded a flight with the lowest energy consumption I have ever seen with my setup, 2600mah for the P25 schedule. Typical power consumption for P25 is 3800mah. I will continue flying with this motor to collect more information about motor efficiency. The motor also ran cool as well. With an ambient temperature of 28C, the motor was 65C on the outside of the rotor. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VkG...usp=drive_link https://drive.google.com/file/d/19-H...ew?usp=sharing Mike Padron likes this.

I underlines two statements that will change for the pilot after he flies the motor a bit more the way I tuned it. Remember these two statements. Even though he has already recorded the lowest consumption hes not quite sure yet...

[Clugh]

Thank You...

Hubert

[Clugh]

I have a turbo spinner on 8mm yoke here that works. This 10 X 6 folder has a thick root and nice blade profile to work off Now I can build a carbon fiber high pitch folder for it. I'm thinking a 16 X 18 at 12000 rpm would be potent. You need a fuselage similar to these that takes a 64 mm spinner. If you want to try 600 km/h.

[Clugh]

MK has assured me that anyone can purchase his Typhoon plane. All you have to do is contact him on FB and they build a beautiful plane you can mount a powersystem like I am building. There is 10s lipo but I think I'm building for between 12 to 20S. It all depends on the prop. I dont mind winding it for 100 volts if you are daring. You need a similar aspect ratio and wing loading . All I can do is build the power system then weigh it. I wont build it for light weight necessarily. These are the big boys. They have a 100 volt class. I can build a Talega based 100 volt GaN drive that's totally agnostic.



Again it can learn the prop load and optimize around that. It can even do it on the bench if you can provide the simulated windspeed in your tunnel. Yall boys do have a wind tunnel right?



Hubert

[Clugh]

I also have an excellent relationship with APD and Steve Neu so if you want APD I can definitely get it. Etti Marine can provide the lith super caps. 2X's parallel is 6 million microfarads

I think the button supercap is a million micro farads @ 5 volts i was going to strap one across the leads on each EV cell. Dunno how the charger would see it but I couldn't overcharge them in a balanced charge. You can also improve the electrolytic cap if you strap a MLCC across the leads.

And then I have the hybrid capacitors. 9000uf worth that can easily be water cooled .

Roll the bean footage ...

Thanks
Hubert

[Clugh]

Its 5:06 EST here so when the sun actually comes up Ill go out and get some bondo or modeling clay to work on some molds to duplicate some propeller plugs into carbon fiber. A Carbon fiber APC 7 X 15 should be more fun. I can also work on a 12 X 25 saw with a much thicker root for the yoke.....

[Clugh]

BTW! I finally glued the GFRP bulkhead into my Speedfire2 fuselage last night. This is my fun plane I had Dr Janku build me for unofficial speed not just f5B. This one has all the reinforcement you can get from Petr. The high temp epoxy iI use is now nice and cured overnight. I wetted the inside of the fuselage bore well before I inserted it from the backside . I let the entire fuselages weight with the wings mounted keep pressure on it while it cured by letting it hang over the ceiling fan's sconce with 30 lb. monofilament and 2 identical gold plated fishing hooks through 2 of the holes 180 degrees apart. I made sure to get it as square in the bore as possible. Dr Janku does an excellent job of cutting his fuselage perfectly square at the nose, so I used that as a guide to square the motor bulkhead before I left it alone to cure. Then I came back after the fact and brushed a fillet in and let that cure. I have it suspended now and just brushed in another final fillet to make sure the perforated holes Petr put in the GFRP around the edge are filled to the previously wetted interior walls of the fuselage. It is not going anywhere.

It is ready to accept the supernova 3225 on a 3.8-1 maxon planetary gearbox internally mounted, I built for it. It is not designed to try to draw 185 amperes from the small motor direct drive and fry it .It is designed to pull an 18 in high pitch prop like Gerben would run on a world class F5B plane on 10 s lipo with slightly more pitch just for fun. It really doesn't need any special propeller to fly really fast and fun. This is why I choose this one as a fun flyer. I don't need any special favors. I'm going to build a larger plane 10 - 20 s myself from scratch.

[Clugh]

[Clugh]

SORRY MR BEAN ..I couldn't accept your friends request. But I see when they banned your boho1 profile created the MR Bean profile the same day. Anyone that paid attention to the Mr Bean profile join and activity dates of you original BANNED boho1 profile could see the site security circumvention.

But anyhow Enjoy the blog... where I have full control.

Nothings has changed. We still build and wind better motors here in the Research Triangle Park area of North Carolina than in Gotha Germany. We cost less for much better rebuilding materials....we run cooler and more efficiently with many more winding options and a full understanding combined with a real and professional background in bldc machines and the inverters that run them.

https://www.clughmotors.com/

The Thungarian drives with 5 dollar bearings are truly mid. That's a fact you cannot ban... Unfortunately for you. There is a higher concentration of academics and intellectuals in RTP.

We also don't inject lies about BLDC motor design into forum technical sections to rip modelers and fellow hobbyist off.


Thanks for your continued subscriptions,
Hubert

[Clugh]

I have 3 FR power 4730 560 Kv motors coming in from Fabrizio , the owner, to tune. I'm doing one for him and the other 2 I get to keep. I will put them up for sale. Here are the OEM specifications.

The motor is normally 468.00 USD!!



Stator Diameter 47 mm (1.85 in)
Stator Thickness 30 mm (1.18 in)
No. of Stator Arms 12
Magnet Poles 10
Motor Wind 5+4Turn Delta
Motor Wire 2 Strand 1.0 mm
Motor Kv 560 KV RPM / Volt
No-Load Current (Io/10V) 2.29 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.011 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 150 Amps
Max Continuous Power 7500Watts
Weight 550 Grams
Outside Diameter 58.5 mm
Shaft Diameter 6 mm
Body Length 58.7 mm
Overall Shaft Length 110 mm
Max Lipo Cell 12s
Max Peak Current 270 A (2 seconds)
Max Peak Power 13500 Watts (2 seconds)
Motor Timing 5deg-8deg suggested auto timing

FR Power like CK Aero Flies with Clugh

Bi Bi... 😛
Hubert

[Clugh]

Hydra Cobra 5 is 12s lipo with big amps. (12S XLX Hydra with new features)

HYDRA COBRA 5 NEW FEATURES:

• 32-Bit processing power for smoother motor control and improved response time.
• Enhanced Data Logging includes:
  • Double the maximum sample frequency of older generations.
  • 8x increased logging time of older generations.
  • ESC electrical motor timing data.
  • Acceleration data via onboard accelerometer.
  • Looping feature prevents interruptions in data log recording.
• Additional tuning features include:
  • Improved braking adjustability
  • Separate brake and reverse curves
  • Highly adjustable internal BEC (5.0V - 8.5V adjustable in 0.1V increments)
• Access to tuning options and firmware updates for free with Castle Link V4 USB programmer included with purchase.
• Optional smartphone-based programming with the B-LINK™ 2 Bluetooth Interface(sold separately) and free Castle Link 2 app available on Google Play or Apple App Store.
• Upgraded current-sensing and thermal protection system actively mitigates the risk of failure in aggressive or high-load setups. Ready

Happy 2026!

This is a quality investment.

[Clugh]

I have 3 FR power 4730 560 Kv motors coming in from Fabrizio , the owner, to tune. I'm doing one for him and the other 2 I get to keep. I will put them up for sale. Here are the OEM specifications.

The motor is normally 468.00 USD!!



Stator Diameter 47 mm (1.85 in)
Stator Thickness 30 mm (1.18 in)
No. of Stator Arms 12
Magnet Poles 10
Motor Wind 5+4Turn Delta
Motor Wire 2 Strand 1.0 mm
Motor Kv 560 KV RPM / Volt
No-Load Current (Io/10V) 2.29 Amps
Motor Resistance (Rm) 0.011 Ohms
Max Continuous Current 150 Amps
Max Continuous Power 7500Watts
Weight 550 Grams
Outside Diameter 58.5 mm
Shaft Diameter 6 mm
Body Length 58.7 mm
Overall Shaft Length 110 mm
Max Lipo Cell 12s
Max Peak Current 270 A (2 seconds)
Max Peak Power 13500 Watts (2 seconds)
Motor Timing 5deg-8deg suggested auto timing

FR Power like CK Aero Flies with Clugh

Bi Bi... 😛
Hubert

I definitely plan to strip it of its large conductor bifilar nonsense. Especially a delta with additional large parallel conductors that are already subject to skin losses in major proximity to one another with no twist. The lower DC resistance is not worth the AC noise as the AC resistance can be as much as 10X's higher.. All that noise heats the magnets and iron up quicker....the perfect precursor to desynchronization.

Your speed plane becomes a smoke crop duster.... gliding it around a few minutes after a speed run is not going to save the magnets. That! is obviously proven in the tragic videos on you tube where they are left with no choice but to glide because the motor is already gone

Once the magnets in the rotor reach a certain temperature they cannot return to full power by cooling them down. I don't care how quickly you try to cool them back down.

This after run gliding was suggested as a remedy to cool motors that are blowing out magnets at temperatures greater than 180 degrees Celsius and it is real BS! The proof is right there on the bench of the editor in Gotha, trying to put it on the pilots that cannot be at fault if they are told the motors can make clean power that they cannot..

DC does not generate losses based on frequency. DC is stall in a BLDC motor boo boo. The eta there is 0% You need to learn to accept that as life.



And isn't it quite silly to run a motor in a speed trap competition with an antiquated or economy based inverter without an iota of motor telemetry in the first place???

You might know the real in flight motor temps then and pierce right through any goofy lies posted on social media.

Economy pricing and high end competition for speed records do not go together anyway.

[Clugh]

Question:
If you buy an economy based inverter the have to hack it with an Arduino microprocessor or whatever to be full featured. In time and extra componentry what have you saved? If you need to reinvent its heatsink and print a case for it to house real bulk capacitance etc. What have you $$aved? It's cool to tinker like that if that is what excites an advanced hobbyist. But if you are really into higher challenges why hack versus build a purpose built embedded flight solution withe real capability for UAV flight. This also supports Estonia instead.

YOU... wont build anything with a shorter current path. It is also floating point space vector control.

[Clugh]

BTW I finally linked with Brian Buass to prepare my ABC propellers for SAW and oval speed runs. We are both looking forward to working together.

Im sure alot of you...didn't know or do not know that Brian wound the motors and built the airframes they flew that competed in the 1998 F5D World Championship. Brian currently hold several records in fast Electric boats. He also has some pull at castle...

Generally he is just and all around highly accomplished Modeler. Nothing he builds is trash and always fast as ever.


In the attachment is some of his. ABC prop work

[Clugh]

Guten Morgen Ralph! Immer noch Abonnent... Ja, ja, gern geschehen... Ein paar Kreise nach dem Flug zu drehen, wird die Magnete in deinen Geräten nicht retten, deren Curie-Temperatur offensichtlich überschritten wurde. Also hör bitte auf, im Forum Dinge zu behaupten, die nicht im Entferntesten der Wahrheit entsprechen.

Der Hauptgrund für übermäßige Hitzeentwicklung ist eine Belastung, die der Motor nicht dauerhaft bewältigen kann. Es handelt sich um einen Motor, dessen Leistung für die erforderliche Last nicht ausreicht. Dies ist auch der offensichtlichste Grund für eine Desynchronisation. Das erforderliche Kippmoment ist schlichtweg nicht vorhanden.

Viel Spaß mit Ihrem "neuen" Konto!



Thank you.
Hubert

[Clugh]

If you think your motor has torque turn a few of these boat props. These supercavitating surface piercing boat propellers have aspect ratios of 2.3 and 2.4.. I bet you get the smoke without the 8 blades...

[Clugh]

Here is the H1818 raw beryllium blank I'll ask Brian to prep for my 1/8 scales. This prop and the 1919 is prop wizard selected specifically for my custom wound Align.


And some other goodies for the spring....

[Clugh]

ABC 1818 calculated as most efficient prop in its database for performance hydro @ 12s lipo 9800 mah

33,940 rpm
153 amps
Pin 6.394 kilowatts
Pout 6.125 kilowatts
Run time 3.85 minutes
Est speed 90.12 mph or 145.03408 km/h
Eff. 95.80 %

In a performance hydro with 10s lipo @ 9800 mah and a castle 240. Prop wizard selected an ABC 1918 as the most efficient prop for the setup.
Resultant:
28,221 rpm
141 amps
4,955.78 watts Pin
4,728.58 watts Pout
run time 4.15 minutes
est speed 79.20 mph or 127.46 Km/h
Eff. 95.42%

[Clugh]

By the way there is nothing new about a 3d printed machine using zip drive iron or the 14 pole halbach that never ran. It is funny about the 50/50 radial to circumferential ratio as that determines how sinus the BEMF would be. The wrong ratio and it is no cleaner than a BLDC. The ratio is critical to a sinus signature. This was pointed out and the response was ad hominem, & fallacy, and then you never see it run.

It would be better to utilize additive manufacturing and print something actually useful in a real motor like semi magnetic slot wedges or a low loss magnetic core with a real rotor that will not fall apart.

You waste alot of time when custom winding solutions are available and easy to implement for experienced winders. They actually run too.

No dreaming or nonsense just reality!


The technology of 3d printed motors and components is nearly 15 years old now. Its definitely nothing new, exotic , or special about it. 7 years and you still have not managed to simply wind and run a hybrid on a conventional BLDC frame for examination.

Offenbar ist es sehr schwierig, eine sinnvolle Unterhaltung über Motorsteuerung und -design zu führen, die tatsächlich zu einer Verbesserung für den Hobbybastler führt.