Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[GliderGuy]

Not sure why you don’t quote me as I've said the same thing all along and was one of the first both flying the Mig and flying it with TVs. I know Alejandro is great and posts great videos but that doesn't mean there aren't others flying their planes too.

No doubt. AG and I were recently PMing / Top of my mind.

It wasn’t my intent to slight anyone. I apologize.

-GG

[Evan D]

Not sure why you quote me as I've said the same thing all along and was one of the first both flying the Mig and flying it with TVs. I know Alejandro is great and posts great videos but that doesn't mean there aren't others flying their planes too.

[GliderGuy]

When I put the TVs on mine I tried a turn of down thrust. It didn't help, still felt odd.

Based on AirGuardian videos and lots of flying….I don’t think a fixed nozzle change is gonna do what you want.

IMHO

The issue is getting outa alpha lock. Only certain ways to do it AG is an expert at it. It isn’t always easy to do. Pulsed throttle, no throttle, flicked sticks, etc. AND….always ALTITUDE is needed. I lacked altitude!

-GG

[Evan D]

When I put the TVs on mine I tried a turn of down thrust. It didn't help, still felt odd.

[GliderGuy]

Less upthrust was discussed, but as I recall….this opens another can of worms. I may be remembering from another forum.

Let’s see what others post about this.

-GG

[kallend]

Sure…But before I remove one, doing what you are attempting to do was discussed by several folks early on in this forum.

As I recall, the general consensus was, “It probably won’t work.”

I don’t recall all the reasons and precautions that were presented. If after you research this you still want to try, let me know.

-GG

Well, I read the forum from the beginning but I'll take another look.
Seems to me that about 5 degrees less built-in upthrust would be beneficial (of course other re-trimming would be required).

[GliderGuy]

Since you’re not rebuilding, would you be willing to sacrifice a nozzle and measure its dimensions inside and out? I’m considering creating a set with different thrust lines to help avoid the gremlin without going to VT.

Sure…But before I remove one, doing what you are attempting to do was discussed by several folks early on in this forum.

As I recall, the general consensus was, “It probably won’t work.”

I don’t recall all the reasons and precautions that were presented. If after you research this you still want to try, let me know.

-GG

[Evan D]

Moment of silence observed, she did you well with the many successful flights. I agree if mine went in I wouldn't replace her. Even with TV there's something not quite right.

[kallend]

Sadly, I am reporting the loss of my much flown and much loved MiG-29.

Gusty, wind sheer conditions just above ground level (but ok down close to the ground for landing)…

Even with the recently-installed gyro (probably didn’t have the gain set high enough), a gust hit her on base leg and increased the effective angle of attack sufficiently to put her into alpha lock. Thrust line gremlin fought against me during the attempted save.

Not enough altitude to recover….she went in hard on pavement. $600 for parts to fix. Mmmmm NOPE!

I’m thinking this MiG has the most flights anywhere with several thousand. This flight record proves the bird is a very good design, and would have flown much more, IF ONLY!

A moment of silence for the “likely” record holder may be in order. LOL

Ummmm….Lessons learned??? Installing VT would probably be a good idea, if you haven’t. VT would have saved her! Why? The thrust line gremlin is waiting to bite you.

-GG

Since you’re not rebuilding, would you be willing to sacrifice a nozzle and measure its dimensions inside and out? I’m considering creating a set with different thrust lines to help avoid the gremlin without going to VT.

[GliderGuy]

Sadly, I am reporting the loss of my much flown and much loved MiG-29.

Gusty, wind sheer conditions just above ground level (but ok down close to the ground for landing)…

Even with the recently-installed gyro (probably didn’t have the gain set high enough), a gust hit her on base leg and increased the effective angle of attack sufficiently to put her into alpha lock. Thrust line gremlin fought against me during the attempted save.

Not enough altitude to recover….she went in hard on pavement. $600 for parts to fix. Mmmmm NOPE!

I’m thinking this MiG has the most flights anywhere with several thousand. This flight record proves the bird is a very good design, and would have flown much more, IF ONLY!

A moment of silence for the “likely” record holder may be in order. LOL

Ummmm….Lessons learned??? Installing VT would probably be a good idea, if you haven’t. VT would have saved her!

Why? The thrust line gremlin is waiting to bite you.

-GG

[jasmith41]

It's been around since God was a boy and still has the original outrunners in it. And even with those it flies great, just goes to show what a superb model it is.

I ordered the 80mm FMS fans as suggested. I had a bunch of HH points so I burned them up. The order total was $56. I gotta say, I like a good discount - even if I've already paid for it...🤣🤣🤣

I've also ordered 80 and 90mm FMS fans on Ebay previously, but they aren't due in for a month, so we'll see what i actually get when they come in... supposed to be 'authentic' FMS... the 90 is the all metal one i think...

Had to edit this one - LOLOL... just saw the 'demolition pilot' reference....

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks again Hugh - i didn't realize the A10 had the outrunners in it...

It's been around since God was a boy and still has the original outrunners in it. And even with those it flies great, just goes to show what a superb model it is.

[jasmith41]

That is correct, the stock Mig fans ended up in the A-10. These were a 15-20% increase in thrust over the stock A-10 outrunners and that was more than enough for me. Would the FMS fans be good in the A10? You bet! That might end up giving maybe 40% increase over the stock outrunners. The only issue may be how good you are at foam carving since the nacelles are open and very visible on the A10. In the Mig, my foam carving looked like a pack of rats did the work 🤣, so it was nice to cover it up.

Thanks again Hugh - i didn't realize the A10 had the outrunners in it...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Ah (A.h) would be the abbreviation for Ampere hours, a measure of capacity or total charge (current x time). The abbreviation for current drawn is just A (for amperes or amps).

Thanks for pointing that out, I need all the help I can get. I'm definitely no electrical engineer so proper "electric speak" is not my strong suit. But then I ain't too good in English either so we'll see if it helps. 🤣

[Hugh Wiedman]

Thanks Hugh - so just to be clear, you put your stock Mig-29 fans in the A-10 when you put these new FMS fans in your Mig...?
I think that's what I'm hearing...
Would these same new FMS fans be a good upgrade for the A-10 as well instead of the stock Mig ones...?

That is correct, the stock Mig fans ended up in the A-10. These were a 15-20% increase in thrust over the stock A-10 outrunners and that was more than enough for me. Would the FMS fans be good in the A10? You bet! That might end up giving maybe 40% increase over the stock outrunners. The only issue may be how good you are at foam carving since the nacelles are open and very visible on the A10. In the Mig, my foam carving looked like a pack of rats did the work 🤣, so it was nice to cover it up.

[kallend]

This is my only warning. The Mig comes with 2 100 amp ESC's. On the stock fans with 2 SMC 6200 40C batteries, on the bench it pulled 99.5 Ah and 2450 Watts. With the FMS fans, same batteries (when fully charged, throttle at 100% for 6 seconds), it pulled 125.4 Ah and 2851 Watts. I almost fainted when I looked at the meter readings. Granted, this is static, on the bench, and running free with air flow from the jet moving itself, it won't draw that much, but I was very concerned that maybe I also needed to upgrade the ESC's to maybe 130 amps. Rudy assures me (if he's wrong he's a dead man), that the stock ESC's are fine, he has flown maybe 20 flights already without frying an ESC) and the specs that RC Castle give also recommend a 100 amp ESC. But only time will tell!

Ah (A.h) would be the abbreviation for Ampere hours, a measure of capacity or total charge (current x time). The abbreviation for current drawn is just A (for amperes or amps).

[jasmith41]

Thanks Hugh - so just to be clear, you put your stock Mig-29 fans in the A-10 when you put these new FMS fans in your Mig...?
I think that's what I'm hearing...
Would these same new FMS fans be a good upgrade for the A-10 as well instead of the stock Mig ones...?

[Hugh Wiedman]

hugh, where did you get the uprated fans...?
I've ordered a couple off of ebay, but they won't be in for a while and who knows if they're real or knock-offs...

You can get them at Horizon (yuck!), part number as follows: FMMDF00911 80mm DF 12 BLD 3280-2100 Kv Inrunner motor with Metal Spinner $94.99 each. The old part number they had says discontinued, but this is the same one to be sold as a stand alone unit. Or you can get it at RC Castle under FMS 80mm V2 12 blade Pro 32890-2100 Kv for $85.99, plus shipping which will take at least 3-4 weeks to reach you. These are both the exact same fan. I was confused at first when I looked for them as Horizon listed it as "discontinued", but that fan was listed under a specific part for a specific plane, while the part number I gave you is still in stock.

When I put them in, I could tell the difference in the thrust immediately from trying to hold it on the bench. At least 25% more thrust. RudyD54 turned me on to these and he's been flying with them for a couple of months and I noticed right away at the field how much quicker it got off of grass and how much faster it climbed.

This is my only warning. The Mig comes with 2 100 amp ESC's. On the stock fans with 2 SMC 6200 40C batteries, on the bench it pulled 99.5 Ah and 2450 Watts. With the FMS fans, same batteries (when fully charged, throttle at 100% for 6 seconds), it pulled 125.4 Ah and 2851 Watts. I almost fainted when I looked at the meter readings. Granted, this is static, on the bench, and running free with air flow from the jet moving itself, it won't draw that much, but I was very concerned that maybe I also needed to upgrade the ESC's to maybe 130 amps. Rudy assures me (if he's wrong he's a dead man), that the stock ESC's are fine, he has flown maybe 20 flights already without frying an ESC) and the specs that RC Castle give also recommend a 100 amp ESC. But only time will tell!

You will have to do a little foam surgery to get them to fit. The mounting screw holes are fine, but the front of the fan is slightly further back (so you'll have to dredge out the foam there for the fan case flare) and the aft end of the fan casing is larger than the stock fan which has a slight reduction in diameter at the back. None of this is major surgery though. Probably the most foam carving will be in the cover. The sound of the 12 blade is much nicer IMO than the stock 9 blade as well. You'll notice the motor diameter is also smaller (which may help the thrust) and of course if you have the afterburners, you'll also need to get smaller cones. But hey, what's a few more bucks when it comes to this hobby?

The Mig really doesn't need the upgrade, as my initial goal was to upgrade my A-10 and the Mig fans looked like a good alternative for that. Rather than buy 2 new Mig fans, I figured I could kill two birds with one stone (or credit card in this case) so I upgraded both the Mig and the A-10 at the same time, while saving $200 (which is what I told my CO, who promptly took the $200 I theoretically saved and bought another pair of new shoes-talk about having it backfire). The benefit is that it's always just a bit nicer to have more horses under the hood, just in case there's a Ukrainian Stinger (with those beautiful words "Made in the USA" stamped on it) headed up your rear!

[jasmith41]

hugh, where did you get the uprated fans...?
I've ordered a couple off of ebay, but they won't be in for a while and who knows if they're real or knock-offs...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Here we go again. Just can't keep my modified aircraft out of Model Aviation! Someone keeps submitting them and I'll have to conduct an investigation into who's the culprit! Since it was submitted, I've upgrade the stock fans (not that it needed it and wanted to put those in my A-10) with the FMS 12 blade 3280-2100 Kv inrunners putting out an additional 25% more thrust. Haven't yet got it up with those, but RudyD54 turned me onto them with his Mig and it really made a big difference, especially getting off of grass and powering out of high alpha. Can't wait to get mine back up.