Official Freewing F9F-8 Cougar 80mm EDF Jet Thread

[F106DeltaDart]

After incorporating all of this, the plane did get more expensive. There was some debate about including all of this or making the Cougar more analogous to the other 80mm jets at the price of the other 80mm jets. In the end, it was decided that upping our collective game was the best path for this plane. I hope all of you love this plane. A lot of time and effort went into this one. The details and the model itself were largely based on feedback from all of our loyal customers. Thank you!

Love all work you guys clearly put into it! The details are excellent, and I’ll be looking forward to getting one. This new “super scale” 80mm design opens a great opportunity for more of the early turbojets with small diameter engines and intakes. Definitely hope to see more of these in the future. An F-106 at this level of detail would be a dream come true!

[paulrkytek]

It is a big plane. We (Motion RC and Freewing) had a goal to up our game.

The goals for this 80mm jet were as follows:
1) More scale details than any other Freewing 80mm plane (The goal was to bring the 80mm jets to the level of 90mm scale details)
2) Ease of use - less screws, easy assembly, easy wing removal
3) Performance - design new EDF and add more powerful motor, add gyro


First the scale details. Normally, we would try to use landing gear from an existing Freewing 80mm jet. This makes the price lower for customers when we can reuse some parts. Making new tooling and parts is always more expensive than using existing parts. However, to achieve the desired scale fidelity, we knew the Cougar would need new CNC landing gear. Normally we try to save the scale landing gear for 90mm jets but to achieve the goals set above, the cougar needed new gear. This is a first for the 80mm size for Freewing jets. More scale details usually mean additional size which is why the plane got a bit larger. The other 80mm jets normally get wing tip nav lights and maybe a landing light. In this case we also wanted to add a full LED light set (6 LEDs) to achieve a more scale 80mm jet. Again, we normally only do this on 90mm jets. The other 80mm jets either have no gear doors, partial gear doors, or spring operated doors at best. In this case, to achieve more scale fidelity, the Cougar received the highest quality set of scale fully enclosed servo operated doors on any 80mm Freewing jet. The other 80mm jets have between 6-8 servos. The Cougar has 10 to pull this off. Adding servos required a larger BEC than normal hence the 7A vs the 5A normally found in 80mm jets. There were a few spots we had to "cheat". It is almost impossible to make a perfect scale model fly well so there are a few areas where we went off scale a bit (for good reason). For example, the ailerons and flaps and the horizontal stab are not perfectly scale. Will most people notice? Well, maybe now that I pointed it out. Will the plane fly much better? Yes. We took a few liberties as always. Just know these are done for a good reason.

The second set of goals was ease of use. We took customer feedback and gave the Cougar a screwless wing design. This makes quick work of installing and removing the wings to get the plane in any car with ease. No more spending loads of time at the flight field to get the plane ready. Even better is the landing gear staying with the fuse. Along the lines of ease is the gyro. In the past, I thought of using a gyro as "cheating". That is, until I tried one. As long as the plane is designed properly and the gyro is not compensating for a bad design, the gyro really makes a plane a joy to fly, even in the wind. Flying should be relaxing. Wind is stressful and that is the opposite of why we fly. The addition of the gyro makes it feel more locked in during wind guests. Given the popularity of gyros and the feel they provide on windy days lead to the inclusion of the Freewing E-52 gyro in the PNP Cougar. The thrust reversing ESC was added to make landing a bit less stressful as well. Gone are the worries about a hot landing causing you to run off the end of the runway. Simply reverse your thrust after landing.

The goals for performance necessitated a new EDF design. The Freewing 80mm jets use an inrunner motor and a 9B EDF as of today. The Cougar has a newly designed 12B fan. The goals for the new EDF were thrust, sound, and efficiency. The new EDF achieves all three and is the best 80mm fan Freewing has produced to date. Many designs were tested with many motors and the motor settled on was the new 3658-2150Kv inrunner. I think you will find the combination fantastic.

After incorporating all of this, the plane did get more expensive. There was some debate about including all of this or making the Cougar more analogous to the other 80mm jets at the price of the other 80mm jets. In the end, it was decided that upping our collective game was the best path for this plane. I hope all of you love this plane. A lot of time and effort went into this one. The details and the model itself were largely based on feedback from all of our loyal customers. Thank you!

Good summary Tom, it answers a lot of the questions I had and explains the thinking process behind decisions made. From the limited number of videos I have seen so far, including the Chinese videos I get the impression that the oleo springs may be a little hard for some. Any chance of coming up with a softer spring set in the spares/upgrade section?

[dahawk]

Awesome write-up Tom,

It's love at first site for me. Thank you for bringing this to us. I was one of the many who have been clamoring for a Panther/Cougar for years now. When it popped-up last week, I couldn't believe my eyes. Thought I was dreaming. Started reading the description with all the cool features and in less than 30 seconds, Bam ! -ordered. I know she's already a home run.

[Propan]

What is super/ultra-scale? More than scale?

[Evan D]

I see Super Scale described for the plane and some components and I see Ultra Scale used to describe the landing gear. I would say it means more than standard scale for similar models.

[Spencer Keith]

It is a big plane. We (Motion RC and Freewing) had a goal to up our game.

The goals for this 80mm jet were as follows:
1) More scale details than any other Freewing 80mm plane (The goal was to bring the 80mm jets to the level of 90mm scale details)
2) Ease of use - less screws, easy assembly, easy wing removal
3) Performance - design new EDF and add more powerful motor, add gyro


First the scale details. Normally, we would try to use landing gear from an existing Freewing 80mm jet. This makes the price lower for customers when we can reuse some parts. Making new tooling and parts is always more expensive than using existing parts. However, to achieve the desired scale fidelity, we knew the Cougar would need new CNC landing gear. Normally we try to save the scale landing gear for 90mm jets but to achieve the goals set above, the cougar needed new gear. This is a first for the 80mm size for Freewing jets. More scale details usually mean additional size which is why the plane got a bit larger. The other 80mm jets normally get wing tip nav lights and maybe a landing light. In this case we also wanted to add a full LED light set (6 LEDs) to achieve a more scale 80mm jet. Again, we normally only do this on 90mm jets. The other 80mm jets either have no gear doors, partial gear doors, or spring operated doors at best. In this case, to achieve more scale fidelity, the Cougar received the highest quality set of scale fully enclosed servo operated doors on any 80mm Freewing jet. The other 80mm jets have between 6-8 servos. The Cougar has 10 to pull this off. Adding servos required a larger BEC than normal hence the 7A vs the 5A normally found in 80mm jets. There were a few spots we had to "cheat". It is almost impossible to make a perfect scale model fly well so there are a few areas where we went off scale a bit (for good reason). For example, the ailerons and flaps and the horizontal stab are not perfectly scale. Will most people notice? Well, maybe now that I pointed it out. Will the plane fly much better? Yes. We took a few liberties as always. Just know these are done for a good reason.

The second set of goals was ease of use. We took customer feedback and gave the Cougar a screwless wing design. This makes quick work of installing and removing the wings to get the plane in any car with ease. No more spending loads of time at the flight field to get the plane ready. Even better is the landing gear staying with the fuse. Along the lines of ease is the gyro. In the past, I thought of using a gyro as "cheating". That is, until I tried one. As long as the plane is designed properly and the gyro is not compensating for a bad design, the gyro really makes a plane a joy to fly, even in the wind. Flying should be relaxing. Wind is stressful and that is the opposite of why we fly. The addition of the gyro makes it feel more locked in during wind guests. Given the popularity of gyros and the feel they provide on windy days lead to the inclusion of the Freewing E-52 gyro in the PNP Cougar. The thrust reversing ESC was added to make landing a bit less stressful as well. Gone are the worries about a hot landing causing you to run off the end of the runway. Simply reverse your thrust after landing.

The goals for performance necessitated a new EDF design. The Freewing 80mm jets use an inrunner motor and a 9B EDF as of today. The Cougar has a newly designed 12B fan. The goals for the new EDF were thrust, sound, and efficiency. The new EDF achieves all three and is the best 80mm fan Freewing has produced to date. Many designs were tested with many motors and the motor settled on was the new 3658-2150Kv inrunner. I think you will find the combination fantastic.

After incorporating all of this, the plane did get more expensive. There was some debate about including all of this or making the Cougar more analogous to the other 80mm jets at the price of the other 80mm jets. In the end, it was decided that upping our collective game was the best path for this plane. I hope all of you love this plane. A lot of time and effort went into this one. The details and the model itself were largely based on feedback from all of our loyal customers. Thank you!

Thank you for the post and outstanding explanation of this jet. I’m very pleased you chose to spend the money to make it right. I’m going to be watching my email daily now till it ships and glad I made the first shipment.

[Propan]

I see Super Scale described for the plane and some components and I see Ultra Scale used to describe the landing gear. I would say it means more than standard scale for similar models.

Missing long gone days, where sub-/semi-/sport-scale were common terms. Super-/ultra-scale…just ridicoulus. Whats next? Hyper-scale?

Never mind, I ordered one this morning. Love the model, not so much the silly advertising. Be real;)

[dahawk]

With this new 3658-2150Kv 80mm inrunner and reversing esc, if it all looks good ,I may just have to retrofit some of my older 80mm FW models like the A4, T-33, Mig-21, etc. For the longest time, I've been retrofitting with the FMS 2000. Perhaps FW has re-taken the lead ?

[Tom]

Super-Scale is a term used to describe 90mm jets where a significant amount of work and expense went into replicating scale details. For example, the CNC main landing gear on the 90mm F-16 was a huge deal way back when that plane was released. We've never used the term "super-scale" to describe a Freewing 80mm jet but in this case the new 80mm Cougar has more scale features than any other 80mm and even more than some of the 90mm jets. For example, we don't normally put more than a drop tank or two missiles on an 80mm jet. Those require extra molds and tooling and a lot of labor so we shy away from that on 80mm jets to keep the cost down. This one has 4 missiles and 2 drop tanks and they all have significant scale details. When adding that to all the other items I described in my post on the previous page, it seemed logical to put it in the super-scale category normally reserved for 90mm jets. The landing gear is in a different class compared to anything Freewing has done so hence the new term to describe the gear. We were trying to figure out how to get the point across to someone who has not seen the landing gear (or plane) in person. The pictures don't even do it full justice.

[didier n]

Nice plane!

Does anyone know the width with the wings removed?

[Evan D]

Look at the manuals picture and kind of measure it... Looks like 14.4"

[James]

Nice plane!

Does anyone know the width with the wings removed?

Evan is right about 14 1/4" give or take a tad

[f4u ausie]

Hi guys just a simple question regards the reverse thrust. Wesley said to use a momentary swtch.. (makes sense) but do u need to reduce throttle to zero,, hit the reverse switch and up the throttle.... or can u simply land with a little throttle and hit the button thanx in advance.. luv the look of it by the way.. will find a wayfor it to b my third jet

[Evan D]

You can simply hit the button and it reverses. Quickly I might add. To me this is bad and you should reduce throttle while doing it.

I also don't recommend using the "I" button. My reason is that it's my left hand and while on the ground you are using your left hand for throttle and steering. Adding an additional task to my left hand while my right hand is basically doing nothing isn't the smartest way to go. For me and my radio reaching my index finger to push "I" means shifting my hands grip on the radio.

I use "E" on my radio. Reverse is enabled in position 2. I have other planes that have air brakes or spoilers and the right slider is the amount of spoilers or air brakes. Switch E "0" is safe position, "1" enables spoilers or air brakes and "2" enables reverse thrust on top of that. I use the left slider for flaps, not that that effects the reversing.

But that said do what is comfortable for you.

[f4u ausie]

Mm couple good points there evan,, im mode 1 so busy on both sticks landing we will see thanx

[SanExup]

With this new 3658-2150Kv 80mm inrunner and reversing esc, if it all looks good ,I may just have to retrofit some of my older 80mm FW models like the A4, T-33, Mig-21, etc. For the longest time, I've been retrofitting with the FMS 2000. Perhaps FW has re-taken the lead ?

And the Gripen, A6, F86, A10 and F14......

[Evan D]

Your wish has been granted. At least partially. Note on the T-33 site:

Version Info: As of 4/28/2023 this model now comes with the upgraded 3658-2150Kv inrunner brushless motor and a newly designed 12-Blade EDF.

[Tom]

We've had quite a few requests asking for more details about the new power system and a comparison to the existing 80mm 9B power system. I posted some numbers on the power system page comparing the new 12B with 3658-2100kV inrunner to the existing 9B with 3658-1920kV inrunner power system. Here is the link: https://www.motionrc.com/products/fr...r-motor-e72314

We have many of this new power system arriving with the second batch of PNP and ARF+ in mid(ish) June. Price of the new power system is $84.

80mm 12B 3658-2150kV inrunner (New F9F Cougar power system)

• Thrust - 3.7kg
• Weight - 340g
• RPM - 47730
• Current - 95A
• Watts - 2100
• Grams of thrust per watt - 1.76

80mm 9B 3658-1920kV inrunner (comparison)

• Thrust - 3.4kg
• Weight - 345g
• RPM - 42500
• Current - 90A
• Watts - 2000
• Grams of thrust per watt - 1.7

Please note my disclaimer. I always hesitate to publish power system numbers because your numbers can vary a lot depending on conditions. These test numbers are for comparison purposes only. Test results are heavily dependent on temperature, humidity, elevation, battery, etc. Your results will likely differ from our test numbers due to the massive variance in conditions and types of batteries. Note these tests were done in similar conditions (same location, same test rig, etc) and are good for comparison purposes.

I've also been asked about the new thrust reversing ESC. We have those coming too. Here is the link: https://www.motionrc.com/products/fr...bec-057d002001

[James]

Filming those initial flights Wesley took, we could both tell immediately the sounds and power this one had. You hear this motor/fan combo in the videos just purring beautifully. It's a solid upgrade.

[Evan D]

Note- I know Ton knows, but the picture in the link IS NOT the new ESC. It is a stock non reversing one currently in many FreeWing 80mm EDFs.

QUOTE=Tom;n377203]I've also been asked about the new thrust reversing ESC. We have those coming too. Here is the link: https://www.motionrc.com/products/fr...bec-057d002001[/QUOTE]