Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[C17loadmaster]

Dropped a solid 2lbs of weight and gained 90 seconds of flight time. I got about 2:30 of flight time on 8s lots of thrust but she was a heavy pig!
Now I'm back to 6s with the FMS fan flying an agile bird that actually handles. 4 minutes of flight time doing an air show maneuvers. I can do a 15 to 20 degree banking coordinated level turn at just at just below 50% throttle. A huge improvement from flying an overweight sled!
we had light winds today and both landings were power off. Any more winds and I'd need some power. Point being, I've never landed this bird power off. On all of my previous flights, both with my FW 6s 9blade setup, and my 8s 1390kv system I always had least 30% throttle in on approach and a minimum of 60 to 70% throttle during flight.
It's a night and day change for this bird, she's been my project from day one. I'm finally happy with her performance.
Flights were performed on HRB 6000mah 6s 50c lipos.
I flew my maiden on my FW F-4 6s camo version today on this same power system. I put it together last night and I thought to myself, this has an 8s version as well, so could probably benefit from more power. The FMS setup is lighter and more powerful than the 9 bladed FW stock setup. It was epic. More over on the F-4 page...

Try a smaller battery... you’ll love it even more. I have HRB 4000, 5000, and 6000’s. You lose a little time on the 4000, but it will be another night and day difference from your flights today. It flies like an F-16 should.

I’m glad the 80mm I sold you is also suited well to your type of flying. I’m finishing up my F-15 that I ended up trying the FMS fan in first.

I had a spare hatch cover, and only trimmed foam from that, so I can try the 2 other power systems I have ready to install. The FMS will be my only 6s option with the F-15 haha

[Phantom]

Try a smaller battery... you’ll love it even more. I have HRB 4000, 5000, and 6000’s. You lose a little time on the 4000, but it will be another night and day difference from your flights today. It flies like an F-16 should.

I’m glad the 80mm I sold you is also suited well to your type of flying. I’m finishing up my F-15 that I ended up trying the FMS fan in first.

I had a spare hatch cover, and only trimmed foam from that, so I can try the 2 other power systems I have ready to install. The FMS will be my only 6s option with the F-15 haha

I haven't put my F-15 together yet, I purchased the normal 6s version. But after maidening my F-4, I yanked out the 70mm F-104 that I bought to work up to the 90mm one that's still in a box. I'll slap that together, then the Mig-17 I've been putting off due to the lack luster reviews on it's electronics. F-15 might have to have to walt until next week...we'll see.

[gooniac33]

Guys, I got the FMS fan in, wasn't difficult at all... a little surgery and she went in just fine. I was planning on doing the maiden with the stock servos, what would be a drop in fit for the horizontal stabilizer servos? I bought Hitec but they are just a little too big.. :(

It takes a little bit of foam removal to get it right in there... but man is it worth it!! I am not a fan of outrunners in EDFs but if you want a lighter, more efficient and slightly more powerful unit for your 90mm Freewing bird, this is the way to go! It transformed my F-104 and I know of several other people that love it in their planes. It won't make your plane a bunch faster than stock but you will gain flight time with a slightly higher top speed and much higher cruise speed when compared to stock!

[DCORSAIR]

It takes a little bit of foam removal to get it right in there... but man is it worth it!! I am not a fan of outrunners in EDFs but if you want a lighter, more efficient and slightly more powerful unit for your 90mm Freewing bird, this is the way to go! It transformed my F-104 and I know of several other people that love it in their planes. It won't make your plane a bunch faster than stock but you will gain flight time with a slightly higher top speed and much higher cruise speed when compared to stock!

Its funny you would say all this, I tried the FMS unit in my F-15 and F4, didn't see any improvements at all, flight times were the same as my FW 4068-1835kv, it must work good in other airframes, maybe where there is more air moving through the intakes or something like that, sold the unit and installed all 1835kv in my jets, one reason really, love the smooth woosh sound they make......

[John Bergsmith]

Its funny you would say all this, I tried the FMS unit in my F-15 and F4, didn't see any improvements at all, flight times were the same as my FW 4068-1835kv, it must work good in other airframes, maybe where there is more air moving through the intakes or something like that, sold the unit and installed all 1835kv in my jets, one reason really, love the smooth woosh sound they make......

Agreed! I have yet to see any improvement in performance or run time using the FMS 90 or FMS 80 platinum. We have several guys that have tried them all with the same result. They run smooth. Now the new Freewing Inrunners are providing a noticeable increase.

[gooniac33]

Its funny you would say all this, I tried the FMS unit in my F-15 and F4, didn't see any improvements at all, flight times were the same as my FW 4068-1835kv, it must work good in other airframes, maybe where there is more air moving through the intakes or something like that, sold the unit and installed all 1835kv in my jets, one reason really, love the smooth woosh sound they make......

The don't do well in all planes. It also depends on your flying style. F-15 and F-4 will not benefit if you are looking for speed but will do better in flight times. I have done it myself and seen the result. The new inrunner set ups from FW are much better than previous... but the FMS are still much better....

[Hugh Wiedman]

Excellent weather today and got 20 flights in on 4 EDF's, including 5 on the F-16 Wild Weasel version . I have been flying it with the RT 5500 70C battery because I have the 1835 Kv upgraded inrunner and that motor draws almost 300 Watts more with a 70C versus the RT 6250 35 C. But today, I made all 5 flights on the 6250 35C. Got an extra 40 seconds of flight time, although it did not have quite the take-off thrust the 70C has, but needed only an extra 20-30 feet (plus I have flaperons and fly off of grass so it can be a long run for take-off, especially if the grass is wet). Once in the air, it flew the same or even a little better as the 6250 is actually 45 g lighter than the 5500. It didn't have quite the top end speed (but I'm no speed freak so who cares) and I noticed it wasn't quite as crisp on the Cuban 8's and Spit S's, but overall, I'll definitely continue flying it for a while on the 6250 (every extra second is nirvana).

And the sound of the 12 blade is sooooo much better than the 9 blade in my F-4 and F-18 Canadian. One of the turbine guys said it almost did sound like a turbine. That 9 blade really sounds like compared to a 12 blade! I'm finally feeling fairly confident in flying all the jets and doing a lot more acrobatic maneuvers (for me anyway) like Cuban 8's and Split S's. And I'm getting fairly consistent in nice slow 2 point landings high alpha. I even was able to do a wheely with the F-16 on a grass runway (first time ever), but no one else was there to see it and no pictures, so it must not have happened.

[Johnnyrabuse]

This is my second F16 90 my first was an older early version I put about 100 flights on it then really busted the retracts it flew ok I found the stock system .... A little slow and it flew heavy but I could do basic aerobatics

So of course I'm putting in the 8s F4 phantom system in it

My question is ....

I have 4000. 5000 and 6000 4 cell battery's the 6000 are a very tight fit but man it weighs a ton

The 5000s are a good fit but still I hate weight

I'm considering maidening with the 4000s

It's a tad heavy than the 5000 6 cell but the fan is heavier to
Any idea on flight time?

I'm going with 2 minutes flight 30 seconds to land

I intend to fly conservatively with perhaps one full throttle pass

Any suggestions ?

Thanks in advance

[Phantom]

This is my second F16 90 my first was an older early version I put about 100 flights on it then really busted the retracts it flew ok I found the stock system .... A little slow and it flew heavy but I could do basic aerobatics

So of course I'm putting in the 8s F4 phantom system in it

My question is ....

I have 4000. 5000 and 6000 4 cell battery's the 6000 are a very tight fit but man it weighs a ton

The 5000s are a good fit but still I hate weight

I'm considering maidening with the 4000s

It's a tad heavy than the 5000 6 cell but the fan is heavier to
Any idea on flight time?

I'm going with 2 minutes flight 30 seconds to land

I intend to fly conservatively with perhaps one full throttle pass

Any suggestions ?

Thanks in advance

If there F4 Phantom's 8s system is the same as the Yak-130's 8s system then I had the same system in mine for about 40 flights as you have in yours.

Go with the 4000mah's for your maiden, and set your timer to 2 minutes. The 8s system gives the power your looking for that the 6s stock system doesn't, however anytime your back off full throttle she starts flying like a brick. You've basically made an already heavy bird, even more so by adding the 8s setup and additional battery weight.

I finally got tired of the lack of flight time, and the dump truck like feeling anytime I backed off the throttle. So I swapped out her power system for yet a 3rd time and went with the 6s FMS power system. I'm happy with her now, she's got a better power to weight ratio than the 8s system and I'm at 4 minutes of flight time, landing at 30 to 40% battery with 6000 and 6200mah batteries.

I've been up to 4.5 and 5 minutes now using my 8000mah 6s, but with this bird, she flies better on the 6000 and 6200mah. Any more battery weight and you will get a little more flight time, but the weight is very apparent in the loss of vertical.

She rolled off the assembly line a heavy girl, and unfortunately there is almost no way to put her on diet.

Enjoy your maiden, but when that 2 minute timer goes off be on short final so you have juice to do one go around and not kill your battery. Any more than that and you'll probably be sacrificing your battery for the plane.

[Johnnyrabuse]

If there F4 Phantom's 8s system is the same as the Yak-130's 8s system then I had the same system in mine for about 40 flights as you have in yours.

Go with the 4000mah's for your maiden, and set your timer to 2 minutes. The 8s system gives the power your looking for that the 6s stock system doesn't, however anytime your back off full throttle she starts flying like a brick. You've basically made an already heavy bird, even more so by adding the 8s setup and additional battery weight.

I finally got tired of the lack of flight time, and the dump truck like feeling anytime I backed off the throttle. So I swapped out her power system for yet a 3rd time and went with the 6s FMS power system. I'm happy with her now, she's got a better power to weight ratio than the 8s system and I'm at 4 minutes of flight time, landing at 30 to 40% battery with 6000 and 6200mah batteries.

I've been up to 4.5 and 5 minutes now using my 8000mah 6s, but with this bird, she flies better on the 6000 and 6200mah. Any more battery weight and you will get a little more flight time, but the weight is very apparent in the loss of vertical.

She rolled off the assembly line a heavy girl, and unfortunately there is almost no way to put her on diet.

Enjoy your maiden, but when that 2 minute timer goes off be on short final so you have juice to do one go around and not kill your battery. Any more than that and you'll probably be sacrificing your battery for the plane.

Thanks I was figuring as much I'm taking the system out putting it in my F22 and then putting the FMS system in can you post the equipment you used thanks for your post

as soon as I picked this bird up I felt it was too heavy with 8s

[Phantom]

Thanks I was figuring as much I'm taking the system out putting it in my F22 and then putting the FMS system in can you post the equipment you used thanks for your post

as soon as I picked this bird up I felt it was too heavy with 8s

FMS 3546 1900KV 90MM 12 BLADED EDF 6s. It only pulls about 112 amps so I down graded the 8s 150amp ESC that came with the YAK-130 system, to 130amp ESC out of my FW Venom, just to save a few more ounces of weight.

[Hugh Wiedman]

FMS 3546 1900KV 90MM 12 BLADED EDF 6s. It only pulls about 112 amps so I down graded the 8s 150amp ESC that came with the YAK-130 system, to 130amp ESC out of my FW Venom, just to save a few more ounces of weight.

Hey Phantom, I'm not weighing in on the 8S vs 6S, but noticed that you said the FMS 12 blade was only pulling 112 amps. I tested out my FW 4068-1835 KV 12 blade inrunner in my F-16 and found that on a Roaring Top 5500 70C battery fully charged, it draws 117.3 amps and 2830 watts. On the Admiral 6000 50C battery it was down to 110.5 amps and 2458 watts, so it seems the battery made a big difference. The RT 6250 35C battery was in between these 2 at 114 amps and 2605 watts. My IR meter does show the RT 35C actual c rating is slightly above the Admiral 50C, so the results do make a little bit of sense. I'm now using the 6250 more often than the 5500 just to get a few more "seconds" in the air. As I've said before, there is not as big a difference in the outrunners (like my F-4 and F-18 stock fans) with a higher C battery as there seems to be in the inrunners, so I also go with the higher mah for more flight time. Oddly, the RT 6250 is 28g lighter than the Admiral 6000 and RT 5500 so that's another advantage.

[Aros]

I just bought two Admiral 6000 50Cs...I will maiden my HSD F-16 with those. Not as high wattage as the RT's but I hope they do the job. I'll be using them on my 90mm jets too of course.

[themudduck]

I've been using the RT 6250's in all my 6-cell jets. I strongly suspect that the 35C rating is conservative, because they work perfectly. My Admiral 5000's seems good but started puffing after a year's use (and possibly from being over-discharged) but I've had nothing put great performance from the RTs. They are lighter and have about 20% more capacity, to me that is a big advantage.

(I don't have an F16) (sorry)

[Phantom]

Hey Phantom, I'm not weighing in on the 8S vs 6S, but noticed that you said the FMS 12 blade was only pulling 112 amps. I tested out my FW 4068-1835 KV 12 blade inrunner in my F-16 and found that on a Roaring Top 5500 70C battery fully charged, it draws 117.3 amps and 2830 watts. On the Admiral 6000 50C battery it was down to 110.5 amps and 2458 watts, so it seems the battery made a big difference. The RT 6250 35C battery was in between these 2 at 114 amps and 2605 watts. My IR meter does show the RT 35C actual c rating is slightly above the Admiral 50C, so the results do make a little bit of sense. I'm now using the 6250 more often than the 5500 just to get a few more "seconds" in the air. As I've said before, there is not as big a difference in the outrunners (like my F-4 and F-18 stock fans) with a higher C battery as there seems to be in the inrunners, so I also go with the higher mah for more flight time. Oddly, the RT 6250 is 28g lighter than the Admiral 6000 and RT 5500 so that's another advantage.

I should clarify, I haven't actually tested the setup on a watt meter. The 112amp number comes from FMS's specs on there website. Based on their specs is why I went with the 130amp ESC. Now you've peaked my curiosity, so I'll do some static power runs on my Falcon/Viper to see what she's putting down. I know folks love the RT's, I don't have any, so I'll be using an assortment of HRB's, CHNL's and HobbyStar's. By the time I was turned on to the RT's existence, I had already amassed a healthy amount of 6s lipos that worked great, were light, and about a 3rd cheaper than RT's.

[Hugh Wiedman]

I certainly can't speak for all batteries, I have only been able to test the brands I have. What I can say is that using the progressive RC Internal Resistance meter, the actual C of the RT 5500 70 C battery is more like 38 C, the RT 6250 35 C is closer to 30 C and the Admiral 6000 50 C is more like 27 C. The other thing that I observed with a watt/amp meter was that generally inrunners benefit more from higher C batteries than outrunners (at least in EDF's). The inrunners in my F-16 and SU-30 draw a good 3-7 amps more and 250-350 more watts on the RT 70 C than the Admiral 50C, with the RT 35 C in the middle (to be expected since the actual C is higher than the Admirals, even though the stated C is lower). In comparison, the outrunners I have draw within 1-2 amps and 50-100 watts between the 70 C battery and the 35 C battery, so not as big a benefit.

This is by no means an exhaustive and scientifically accurate study. And my general conclusions may not hold water in all cases. I have tested some friends HRB and the new Spektrum batteries and they seem to be similar to the Roaring Tops, but of course, I've yet to find any battery that is at it's stated C rating. However, the lower the C rating, the closer to the actual it gets. And I've only tested this on 2 inrunners and 5 outrunners, all FW.

The other factor of course is weight. The RT 5500 weighs 825 g, the Admiral 6000 is 827 g and the RT 6250 is 798 g, so there is a decision to make regarding weight and power. I've been flying the 6250 in all my outrunners (less weight and similar power to all 3 with more flight time), and just started flying it in the F-16 because I want/need/gotta-have more flight time. I at least picked up an extra 40 seconds and noticed a slight drop in take-off power (vs the 5500 70 C), but once in the air, it didn't seem to matter. Have yet to try it on the SU-30 though, there is definitely a 10% drop in power and I fly off of grass and need every bit of juice I can get. But it is annoying after taking off and barely completing one circuit I get my timer saying 2 minutes remaining, heck I thought I just took off and I'm 1 minute from going into landing preparation mode!!!

[Johnnyrabuse]

Put my stock fan back in to maiden this left the 150 amp esc programmed flaps delta mix I’m bringing the 8 cell fan to field and some battery’s if I can land this thing in under 150 feet on light packs I’ll toss in the 8s and cross my fingers that I can land at 280 I actually might try 4000 six cell keep it light and fly slow just to shoot approaches

if that works out I’ll toss in a 5000 and then a 6000 then I’ll try the 8s ....

did the mix on a dx 9 I can turn my aero lines on and off tailerons are full time flaps are 50 and 100 percent with up elevator the elevator itself is set at the 7mm bottom line in the manual I have three rates on surfaces 100 80 and 70 but the elevators staying at 100 no expo ... cog is just a little back of the recommended in manual but for the maiden I’ll push it forward to the recommended

wish me luck

[Phantom]

Good luck!

[Phantom]

I certainly can't speak for all batteries, I have only been able to test the brands I have. What I can say is that using the progressive RC Internal Resistance meter, the actual C of the RT 5500 70 C battery is more like 38 C, the RT 6250 35 C is closer to 30 C and the Admiral 6000 50 C is more like 27 C. The other thing that I observed with a watt/amp meter was that generally inrunners benefit more from higher C batteries than outrunners (at least in EDF's). The inrunners in my F-16 and SU-30 draw a good 3-7 amps more and 250-350 more watts on the RT 70 C than the Admiral 50C, with the RT 35 C in the middle (to be expected since the actual C is higher than the Admirals, even though the stated C is lower). In comparison, the outrunners I have draw within 1-2 amps and 50-100 watts between the 70 C battery and the 35 C battery, so not as big a benefit.

This is by no means an exhaustive and scientifically accurate study. And my general conclusions may not hold water in all cases. I have tested some friends HRB and the new Spektrum batteries and they seem to be similar to the Roaring Tops, but of course, I've yet to find any battery that is at it's stated C rating. However, the lower the C rating, the closer to the actual it gets. And I've only tested this on 2 inrunners and 5 outrunners, all FW.

The other factor of course is weight. The RT 5500 weighs 825 g, the Admiral 6000 is 827 g and the RT 6250 is 798 g, so there is a decision to make regarding weight and power. I've been flying the 6250 in all my outrunners (less weight and similar power to all 3 with more flight time), and just started flying it in the F-16 because I want/need/gotta-have more flight time. I at least picked up an extra 40 seconds and noticed a slight drop in take-off power (vs the 5500 70 C), but once in the air, it didn't seem to matter. Have yet to try it on the SU-30 though, there is definitely a 10% drop in power and I fly off of grass and need every bit of juice I can get. But it is annoying after taking off and barely completing one circuit I get my timer saying 2 minutes remaining, heck I thought I just took off and I'm 1 minute from going into landing preparation mode!!!

I'll fire her up tonight and annotate the results.

[Phantom]

Finally got around to testing the different batteries with this FMS setup, but I wanted to share the condition of my main wheels, after 65 flights, about 40 of which were with the FW 8s setup. As you can see from the pictures, the inner wheel flange has cracked on both sides. Swapping them out for some new ones.