Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

Why would a pink crocodile tell his friends dual 3 phase isnt applicable?

"In summary, the 2× 3-phase IPM machine can gain slightly higher torque in the constant torque region, or meet the design specification while reducing the machine VSI current requirement or presenting a reduced mass machine. This conclusion is well understood. This paper has shown that the gains also follow through to the extended speed or field weakening region where the improvement in torque ripple is more significant, 7.87% for the 2× 3-phase drive compared to 38.13% for the three-phase system.

Although space only permits presentation of comparative results for two key operating points on the traction machine torque-speed characteristic, the gains discussed are evidenced across the full characteristic.

No comprehensive assessment has been made of the impact on system hardware as such. The 2× 3-phase machine will require twice as many terminating conductors, but the total conductor cross-section remains the same or slightly reduced. From a machine winding point of view, the existing Nissan Leaf winding arrangement already lends itself to a 2× 3-phase implementation, being effectively would in two identical halves.

No mention has been made of the improvement in silicon utilization that could be accomplished by the use of single as opposed to paralleled silicon die or phase legs. Further, the DC-link capacitance will reduce for the 2× 3-phase system. This work will be reported elsewhere.~


Dual three-phase permanent magnet synchronous machine investigation for battery electric vehicle power-trains

Rong Yang, Nigel Schofield, Nan Zhao, Ali Emadi
First published: 28 May 2019

https://doi.org/10.1049/joe.2018.8178

Citations: 13

[Clugh]

Dont let a pink crocodile make you a mouse of understanding.

Given this gain in torque density (torque per ampere), the 2× 3-phase drive system can be redesigned to save cost while satisfying the benchmark system specification requirements. The options are either the reducing the drive system phase current or reducing the machine active axial length.
From the VSI side, the phase excitation current can be reduced from 5.8% to 565 A. If considering the 2× 3-phase machine, the stack length can be decreased 6% to 142 mm while satisfying the low speed torque specification. The two system redesign ideas are also verified by the FEA results and detailed in Table 2. The total length of the 142 mm active stack length IPM design is 183.5 mm, which is 4.68% shorter than the total length of the Nissan Leaf benchmark machine.

[Clugh]

Sieh dir meine Fernbedienung in Aktion an.

"Grillgut" zum basteln | Seite 4 | RC-Network.de

Der modularer Stack- sequre inverter und Aluminiumwicklungen sind ein Fehlschlag, also leitet er Sie jetzt zurück zu Vacodur-Stacks? Und Sie glauben ihm? LOL, er wird für nichts ein Vermögen abverlangen. Die Cofe-Stacks sind nichts Neues, WIE SIE WISSEN, und sie haben nichts erhöht außer dem Preis. Der reguläre Pyro 1000 übertrifft ihn mit normalem Siliziumstahl.



Du führst nichts an. Du folgst uns nur und bringst uns zum Lachen. Der Vacoflux X1 ist neu, und Vacodur ist nichts Neues, ebenso wenig wie der Preis für Flüge mit über 600 km/h in einem Remake von HK. Das ist ein sehr teurer Reinfall!

Es ist so albern zu behaupten, dass High-End vorbei ist und dass moderne Sachen Spaß machen, und gleichzeitig zu posten, dass Piloten eine Charge alter CoFe-Motoren angefordert haben, LOL. Es interessiert niemanden – sie haben immer noch schlecht abgeschnitten mit den dünnen Armen, vor denen er gewarnt hat. Die HK-Version ist sehr enttäuschend. An dem alten Zeug, das er einfach in seiner Schublade liegen hatte, ist nichts Neues. Er dreht sich im Kreis und macht die Mitglieder von un crocoworld lächerlich.Der CoFe überschreitet weder 600 km/h noch rettet er seinen Rotor.Jetzt ist der Aluminium-Antrieb tot und der pinke Unsinn auch.



Zumindest können wir sehen, wie du die unisolierten, nicht verbundenen Stapel schlecht zusammensetzt.

[Clugh]

Ha! I told you the pink cable doesn't work, and he just left it there. How does he manage to switch from Fun to CoFe?
If he has all those CoFe laminations and they work, why are they in his drawer and not already in your planes? Nobody wants that expensive crap because the motors don't do anything special.

Kai has a regular silicon steel HKIV with a better magnetic circuit

Ask the pink crocodile the price for a real 50 mm stack of Vacodur? There are also different CoFe percentages that he leaves out because the clueless amateurs aren't well-informed enough to know the variations and details of VAC products or to ask about them. The CoFe stacks are for 50 mm, the children's cable motor wasn't 50 mm, but they already forgot about that in Ralph's nonsensical post. I guess a mouse wouldn't also notice the moving goalpost. CoFe is a very expensive "fun-run" material! Since the Cofe motor was posted in the grill thread, it's been burning just like the rest of the pink ****.

crocoworld is off because if they have a thread called "More Speed," but at his command, they're all now fun runners with $1,000 cores.

If his friends actually examined the Vacodur, they would realize at the highest rpms, the torque output is no better that Silicon steel. Its at low speeds and frequencies it shines.

It does virtual nothing for you at full rpm. It also doesn't facilitate field weakening as easily either.

The Dr Okon and Co. cannot read a graph. So let the pilots waste there money on expensive Cofe as they run at these elevated RPM ranges.... Its not even applicable and a real waste of money in a motor that size.

[Clugh]

Du gibst dein Geld für rosige Leitartikel aus und hast nie einen Leistungsvergleich seines Cofe mit dem 50-mm-Modell aus Siliziumstahl von ihm gesehen. Nicht ein einziges Mal hast du die Eigenschaften von Vacodur untersucht. Wie leichtgläubig, wenn man sieht, wie oft er seine Geschichte verändert. Der powercroco Motor-Thread ist aus gutem Grund geschlossen. Siehst du, Spätachter, dass in den Diagrammen bei Volllast, also bei Vollgas oder Höchstdrehzahl, nichts Bedeutendes zu sehen ist? Lass dir das von Ralph erklären und dir als Beweis ein paar Volllastdaten zeigen.

Ich wette, das kann er nicht!.

Dein Motorenforum ist fast tot, wenn du nur noch über rosa Kabel reden kannst....


Da steht nichts, was auf eine höhere Höchstgeschwindigkeit hindeutet.

Lassen Sie mich das klarstellen: Crocoworld wird also Stapel für 1.000 US-Dollar kaufen, weil ihr Tuner 12 Kabel nicht richtig verlegen kann?

Sie können ihn nicht immer wieder dafür belohnen, dass er Sie und Ihr Geld mit Lügen ausbeutet, sonst werden Sie nie etwas Neues bekommen.

Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

BTW

About bearings. NMB is not in the top 10. The Swiss come first as I've always told you. No one does it better than them.

1. SKF

2. F A G

3. NSK

4. NTN

5. TIMKEN

6. IKO

7. KOYO

8. NACHI

9. INA



Es geht nur um Schweden, Deutschland, Japan und die USA. Warum also zum Teufel lädt pink crocodile Malaysia und Thailand in seine handgefertigten deutschen Maschinen, wenn vier der besten Lager der Welt in Deutschland und eines in Schweden hergestellt werden?



NMB steht nirgendwo auf der Liste. Es ist ein billiges Massenprodukt, das hauptsächlich in billigeres chinesisches Eisen eingebaut wird. Wenn er dein Freund ist, warum bekommst du dann zwei mickrige Nachbaulager aus Thailand für eine 600-1000 Euro teure, handgefertigte deutsche Maschine? Er lebt anscheinend noch in der DDR-Zeit, um dir so etwas in einer individuellen Geschwindigkeitsabstimmung zu geben.

[Clugh]

Bist du so schüchtern, dass du dir von Ralph erzählen lässt, dass Thailand für deinen deutschen Motor bessere Kugellager herstellt als Deutschland?

Schaut euch an. Ihr seid lustig. Zumindest der psychotische Amerikaner weiß es besser.

Sie werden keine Lager aus Malaysia oder Thailand in einem Steve Neumotor oder LMT finden. Wenn Sie ein Gewicht wollen, das Sie verlangsamt, ziehen Sie das rosa Krokodil weiter hinter sich her.

[Clugh]

Haha. Meinst du das ernst, Ralph? Das ist kein Log, sondern ein frei erstelltes Diagramm. Möchtest du einige der aufgezeichneten Konstanten in diesem Diagramm auflisten?

Witzig, dass du sagst, das sei mit 111 m/s Luftstrom möglich, obwohl die Wicklung deines 3225-Motors nicht axial angeströmt ist und deine Flugzeuge mit „direkter“ Axialkühlung und >152,77778 m/s Luftstrom auf deiner Grillseite stehen.

Kommt Ihnen das bekannt vor?

Klar, Kumpel …

Und selbst wenn diese Darstellung stimmen würde, wäre der Wirkungsgrad etwa 10 % niedriger als bei einem richtig dimensionierten 4638-Motor. Wie kann das also toll sein? Ein Motor dieser Größe soll 2 PS oder etwa 1400 Watt verbrauchen. Davon sind nur etwa 5600 Watt nutzbar, also wird dieser Schwachsinn nicht lange halten.

Der Übergang vom Wirkungsgrad ηalt zum Wirkungsgrad ηneu würde eine Erhöhung der maximalen Motorleistung um den Faktor N bedeuten.

N = (1 - .80) / (1 - .90)
N= 2

Das ist der doppelte Durchsatz in einer deutlich kühleren Umgebung.

Glauben Sie wirklich, dass das 240 Gramm schwere Wundermotor-Motorgehäuse für die Konvektion von 1400 Watt Leistung ausgelegt ist?

Um zu sehen, wie weit Sie von der tatsächlichen Leistung abweichen, müssen Sie das inverse Wärmemodell ausprobieren.

In einem Flugzeug leistet der 3225-Motor nur etwa 4 kW und bleibt auch nach dem Abkühlen am Leben. Was Sie gezeigt haben, ist, dass alles über 5600 Watt wirklich unsinnig ist und er bei weit über 90 Ampere nicht lange hält.

[Clugh]

So zündet ein rosa Krokodil dein Flugzeug an. Der 3225 Xnova-Motor hat nicht einmal eine Axialkühlung. Wenn ich problemlos 180 Ampere daraus ziehen könnte, könnte ich mit dem Maxon 580+ fliegen. Das ist weder eine realistische noch eine nachhaltige Idee.

Und seht ihr, dass etwa 4000 Watt die volle Leistung zum Quadrat darstellen?

Ups, jetzt sehen wir, wie langsam das rosa Krokodil wirklich ist.

Der ganze Überhang rechts ist Verschwendung.

Er kann kein Diagramm lesen, Jungs ...



Ruht euch mal aus, Junge ...

Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

If you think you can read a chart then you can see his problem....

Bye Bye

I have things to do.

Hubert

[Clugh]

This doesn't include that the fundamental there at 45,000 rpm on the 10 pole is 7.5 kilo fundamental and the eRPM is 225,000. Think theres's any eddy losses generated there???

[Clugh]

A 3225 Xnova 1100 kv lightning is rated at xnova with a peak of 2500 watts for 2 seconds. With a max efficiency of 90% do you truly think the motor has 3xs that in usable power with fatter wire in direct drive?

The PM is only good for 150C* If the core saturation occurs just before 106.40 amperes how could the engine make clean power beyond 5088 watts? His plot that he does not know how to read suggest 5000 watts at 90 amperes full power . The ETA would be

approximately 85 % there.

He is truly clueless.... max eta is the maxima! Dr.

Hochstapler

[Clugh]

It is simply unbelievable how little theorists can have about practice!

Dr Okon.

Thank you,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Futaba SBS-01TAS: Luftgeschwindigkeitssensor

Lust auf ein echtes Erlebnis? Kauf dir einen. Er schafft bis zu 600 km/h. Wenn du das überschreitest, bist du bereit für den BSC. Piloten sollten sich einen kaufen, um die Geschwindigkeit per Telemetrie messen zu können. Das GPS-Modul könnte auch funktionieren. Ich bin mir nicht sicher. So kannst du all die tollen Beiträge über Speed-Flugzeuge von Megatron und Starscream bestätigen. Dann können die Autobots loslegen mit der Realität.



REICHWEITE: Ca. 15 km/h – 600 km/h

[Clugh]

I used Ask Ai to ask what is dual 3 phase or DTP is for a PMDC or BLDC machine. Any pilot can type in his AI search engine. It is much brighter than the pink crocodile.

Look what it post for the answer.


The term "dual 3-phase" (DTP) in the context of Permanent Magnet Direct Current (PMDC) motors refers to a specific winding configuration that offers several advantages over traditional single 3-phase systems. While PMDC motors are inherently DC machines, the concept of "dual 3-phase" typically applies to Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors (PMSMs) or Brushless DC (BLDC) motors, which are AC machines often controlled to emulate DC motor characteristics for certain applications [1] [2]..

In a dual 3-phase system, the motor stator is wound with two sets of three-phase windings, which are electrically isolated and often spatially shifted by a certain angle, commonly 30 electrical degrees [3]. This configuration effectively creates a 6-phase system from two independent 3-phase sets. The primary motivations for employing a DTP configuration include enhanced fault tolerance, reduced torque ripple, and increased power density [4] [5].

Fault Tolerance: If one of the three-phase winding sets fails, the motor can continue to operate, albeit at a reduced capacity, using the remaining healthy set of windings [4]. This is a significant advantage in critical applications where continuous operation is paramount.

Reduced Torque Ripple: By having two sets of windings, the harmonic content in the magnetomotive force (MMF) can be significantly reduced. The phase shift between the two sets helps to cancel out certain harmonics, leading to a smoother torque output and reduced vibrations [3][5]. This is particularly beneficial in applications requiring high precision and quiet operation.

Increased Power Density: The DTP configuration allows for a higher utilization of the motor's magnetic and thermal capabilities. With more independent phases, the current per phase can be lower for the same total power, potentially reducing copper losses and improving efficiency [4].

Ich bin sicher, Dr. Okons Entschuldigung gegenüber seinen Piloten für die Nichtverwendung ist, dass es nicht funktioniert, oder?

Dual 3-phase configurations, often implemented in multi-phase motor drives, find applications in high-power and high-reliability systems where the benefits of increased power density, improved efficiency, and enhanced fault tolerance are paramount. These systems are particularly prevalent in:

• Vehicle Traction Inverters: Modern electric vehicles and hybrid electric vehicles increasingly utilize multi-phase motor drives, including dual 3-phase configurations, to achieve higher power output from a given motor size, improve efficiency, and ensure continued operation even if one phase fails. This is crucial for safety and performance in automotive applications [2] [3].

AI says its applicable for MODERN electric vehicles so maybe his pink Cadillac's are not applicable .

[Clugh]

Who's first? and wants a 6 phase BLDC commissioned in his or her high performance e traction model versus and old pink gas guzzling Cadillac that is all for show.

Just ask AI

[Clugh]

The increased power density of a dual three-phase (DTP) motor is achieved by more effectively using the motor's internal components compared to a traditional single three-phase design. By splitting the power across more independent phases, the motor can increase its power output while simultaneously reducing stress on its thermal and magnetic systems. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] How DTP improves magnetic and thermal performance.

• Improved thermal management: With more independent phases, the total motor current is divided into smaller portions for each phase. This results in lower current flowing through each individual winding. Since copper losses (resistive heating) are proportional to the square of the current (I² R), even a small reduction in current per phase leads to a significant reduction in heat generated by the windings. Better thermal management prevents localized
overheating, increases overall system lifespan, and allows the motor to be run at higher power levels.

• Reduced torque ripple: A DTP motor, especially with a 30-degree phase shift between the two winding sets, produces a smoother magnetic flux interaction compared to a standard three-phase motor. A smoother torque output results in less vibration and acoustic noise.

• Higher utilization of magnetic capabilities: The ability to inject specific harmonic currents, such as the fifth and seventh, gives a DTP system more control over the magnetic field. This technique can increase the motor's average torque and power output without increasing the phase current.

• Lower system losses: The lower current per phase directly translates to reduced copper losses, which increases efficiency and allows for a higher power output for the same amount of heat generated. This is a fundamental advantage of spreading the power load over more phases. [2, 3, 4, 6, 7]
Benefits of increased power density

• Compact design: The DTP configuration allows for higher torque and power density, meaning more power can be generated from a smaller, lighter motor. In high-power applications like electric vehicles and aircraft propulsion, this reduces the overall weight and volume of the vehicle.

• Enhanced fault tolerance: The independent nature of the phases means that the motor can continue to operate, albeit at a reduced capacity, even if one phase or a power inverter fails. The remaining healthy phases can compensate for the fault, ensuring system resilience in critical applications.

• Cost and material savings: The increased efficiency and lower thermal demands of a DTP motor can allow for a redesign using fewer or smaller components. For example, a DTP design can be used to meet performance specifications with a reduced active axial length (and therefore less copper), which lowers both manufacturing costs and material usage. [3, 8, 9, 10, 11]

[1] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel8/878...9/10971876.pdf
[2] https://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/id/e...of%20Dual%20Th ree-Phase%20PMSM%20Drive%20with%20Fifth%20and%20Sevent h%20Current%20Harmonics%20Injection-Author-submitted%20manuscript.pdf
[3] https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wi.../joe.2018.8178
[4] https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...14914723001861
[5] https://webthesis.biblio.polito.it/30903/1/tesi.pdf
[6] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12485079/
[7] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel8/107...9/10718138.pdf
[8] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/...bl10_356126198
[9] https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9490049/
[10] https://www.mdpi.com/2032-6653/13/3/51
[11] https://www.mdpi.com/2076-3417/10/5/1608

~AI~

[Clugh]

"A DTP (dual three-phase) configuration increases power density in electric motors by enhancing the utilization of the motor's magnetic and thermal capabilities. By splitting a standard three-phase motor into two sets of three-phase windings, DTP motors can deliver more power in a smaller physical volume.

Lower current per phase. With more independent phases, the total power is distributed across more windings. For the same total power output, the current flowing through each individual phase is lower. This reduces copper losses (I² R) and improves overall efficiency, resulting in less wasted energy and less heat generation."

~AI~

I assume crocoworld has access to AI, but Dr Okon, told the German hobbyist the winding technology was not applicable for a speed plane

It is ashamed that they are totally dependent on that incorrect information.

True intelligence would venture out into the real world and discover these things on their own. Maybe then they can live with the scientifically accepted explanations equipped with a full list of official scientific reference.

[Clugh]

Hi,

Dr Okon told the motor winding forum in Germany that a star - delta serially connected hybrid winding set I can offer were not applicable for speed planes. He never offered an iota of data a photo of the winding or a video of it running. What do you have to believe.? I've offered you all of that!!! The winding was designed by the IEEE for traction application but lets see what Artificial Intelligence has to say about it.


AI
what is a star delta hybrid serial winding set for a BLDC motor?

"The Star-Delta Hybrid Winding Configuration for BLDC Motors

A Star-Delta Hybrid winding configuration is an alternative winding arrangement for BLDC (Brushless DC) motors that combines the advantages of both the Star (Y) and Delta (Δ) configurations.

In this hybrid configuration, the BLDC motor windings are first connected in a Star configuration and then in a Delta configuration in series. This provides the following key benefits:

1. Improved Low-Speed Torque: The initial Star connection allows for higher torque at low speeds, similar to a pure Star configuration. This is advantageous for applications requiring high starting torque.
2. Enhanced High-Speed Performance: The subsequent Delta connection in series boosts the high-speed performance and power output of the motor, similar to a pure Delta configuration.
3. Wider Speed Range: By combining the strengths of both configurations, the hybrid winding can provide a wider usable speed range compared to using just a Star or Delta winding alone.
4. Increased Efficiency: The hybrid configuration can achieve higher overall efficiency across the motor's operating range by optimizing the torque-speed characteristics.

The Star-Delta Hybrid winding is particularly useful in applications that require both high starting torque and high-speed operation, such as electric vehicles, industrial automation, and robotics. The flexibility provided by this configuration makes it a viable alternative to the traditional Star and Delta windings in BLDC motor design.

It's important to note that the specific winding implementation and control strategy for the Star-Delta Hybrid configuration may vary depending on the motor and application requirements. Careful design and programming of the motor controller are necessary to fully realize the benefits of this winding arrangement."

~AI~

How difficult is DTP on a 50 series scorpion? This difficult. LOL! Dl or SL you get favorable benefits to each machine
An inverter goes to each half of the stator 180 degrees opposed. 6 phases means at least 4 are active at all time versus 2 in the traditional BLDC scheme.

In BLAC commutation all six are active of course in each style more power is always delivered to your motor and more efficiently than the pink panther's. SINGLE 3 phase machine


If you can't understand that then fly slow and fun with the pink classic cars.

[Clugh]

The other thing you need to consider is what a full rotating bell & half stator winding's BEMF looks like. I'll leave that a mystery to you in 2025 because I told you about 4 years ago and posted a photo of the waveform. I think you will find that if the six step drives sees it then it will commutate it with less ripple because the BEMF signal is more compatible . The sophistication of the flight card gives you full flexibility of each inverter independently. If you switch the firing arrangement on one of the inverters correctly you can also lose common mode voltage even when you only use on battery to power both inverters..

I suppose you could also cascade the inverters and also configure them correctly thru FW or FC adjustments for a sub harmonic elimination (S.H.E) commutation scheme.

I'm going to have to come off some more coin. I want a higher resolution a 4 channel scope. And then a matlab compatible DMM is over a "band".... ($1000,00)


A "Band" is for a rubber band over a 1000 dollar stack....

I have to go. I have enough motors to get outta here before Friday and one for today. I took PTO today to get some rest on top of it.

TTYL
Hubert