Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[xviper]

It has the 150 amp speed control, but it will not run on 10s. Must be some sort of overvoltage protection. It turns on and you have control of the surfaces, but it will not throttle up. Thoughts?

What is that 150A ESC rated for? If it's only rated for 8s, what would make you think it will work with 10S or 12S? To do that, you have to have an ESC that IS rated for up to 10S or 12S, regardless of what the amp rating is. I also have an 8S F-22. It flies great but I can tell you right now that it will not even run on 10S unless I change the ESC to one that is rated for 10S. As for the motor being able to take 10S even if you have the proper ESC, you'll know in just a few seconds. I ran a motor on 1 cell too many and it took about 10 seconds into the flight before a trail of smoke formed. The BEC still worked so I could land it but by the time it got on the ground, the interior was all burnt up anyway making the plane a throw away.

You know, I put aside what I perceived as your tone on the last post. I don’t appreciate it now. I am trying to gather information from several sources. By the way, I have several reputable and knowledgeable sources in the hobby who disagree with you.

You're likely not going to appreciate my responses either, but .................................... Just saying you have "several reputable and knowledgeable sources" doesn't mean they are reputable and knowledgeable. I stayed at Motel 6 once but I tell people I stayed at the Hilton because I travel a lot and people think I know my standards. Doesn't mean a thing. It seems to me that you are NOT looking for peoples' thoughts. It's more like you are looking for someone to give you what you want to hear and to massage your beliefs. OK, good luck. And since you have so many reputable and knowledgeable sources at your disposal, I guess you don't need any "thoughts" from anyone here.

[Airguardian]

ESCs are specifically designed for some voltage ranges.
If FW's stock 150A ESC isn't rated for more than 8S, don't push it. Even if it doesn't fail in the first attempt, it won't be long before it does because components such as caps and mosfets won't be able to take it.

As for the motor, it probably will work but overheat very quickly. And when motors overheat they also tend to fail rather sooner than later. Magnets break or unglue, coils can melt and fry, etc.

Motors have a kv value, which is a speed constant. This is the link between your operating voltage and target rpms. System voltage times 'kv' gives an approximate of max rpm at full throttle for that particular motor running at that tension. Ofc, this is just an approximation and it will depend on things like load (propeller drag, etc).

So if you get an EDF with a 1600kv motor meant to turn at say, 50k rpms on 8S and hook it to a 10S battery (provided the ESC is designed to work with 10S), you will be aiming at 1600 x 3.7 x 10 = 60k rpms approximately. On modern EDFs with 9 to 12 blades, motor load grows VERY quickly. You may get away with murder on an EDF running a smaller blade count, but on a 12b system, 10k extra rpms are going to make the amps skyrocket, potentially destroying not just the motor, but also the batteries or even the ESCs. It may even cause enough heat to damage connectors and solder joints... so there's that too.


As for other paintjobs for the Raptor, someone around here had one with a starscream scheme I think...
I have kept mine stock but given the canopy a golden tint to add to the scale effect :)

It's not visible all the time but when it hits the correct angle makes a very cool golden reflection (check minute 3:10 for instance):

[Evan D]

Fair enough, good luck with your plane, the F-22 is a great flying airplane.

[SDW2001]

No, it won't handle it. You don't understand electronics. Plug a 110V house hold item into a 220 outlet "for an extremely small amount of time" and see what happens. If you are lucky the item has a replaceable fuse.... An ESC doesn't. If it still works you got lucky, that's all.


And no, it won't work just limiting the amount of throttle you apply either.

You know, I put aside what I perceived as your tone on the last post. I don’t appreciate it now. I am trying to gather information from several sources. By the way, I have several reputable and knowledgeable sources in the hobby who disagree with you. One thinks it won’t be a problem. Another thinks it will heat up the motor and things will feel hot, but it probably won’t burn up. Then I have opinions like yours. If you’re strong opinion is that it will not handle it, I thank you for that, as it was the direction I was leaning towards after speaking to some highly experienced people today (one of whom is an electrician, FYI). The comment about “not understanding electronics” is unnecessary, and-hominem, and not appreciated. I hope you don’t talk to people at your local club like that when they seek out advice.

edit: By the way, you suggesting that going from 8S to 10s is like 110v/220v makes me question YOUR understanding of electronics.

[Evan D]

No, it won't handle it. You don't understand electronics. Plug a 110V house hold item into a 220 outlet "for an extremely small amount of time" and see what happens. If you are lucky the item has a replaceable fuse.... An ESC doesn't. If it still works you got lucky, that's all.


And no, it won't work just limiting the amount of throttle you apply either.

[SDW2001]

There is a BEC that is powering your plane and separately the ESC that will power the motor. I've never done it because it's stupid to think things will not smoke when you apply more voltage than they are rated at but it sounds like the BEC survived the voltage.

Buy the proper components if you want to go more than 8S. It'll cost you about the same as the plane cost you to start.

I know about the BEC. That increase in voltage shouldn’t be a problem from my understanding. It was also plugged in for an extremely small amount of time. My initial thinking was that the 150 amp speed control could handle it, but as I said it’s obviously got a protection in there. In talking with some guys at my club, I think the motor and fan wouldn’t be a problem. What are your thoughts specifically on the motor and fan being able to handle it?

[Evan D]

There is a BEC that is powering your plane and separately the ESC that will power the motor. I've never done it because it's stupid to think things will not smoke when you apply more voltage than they are rated at but it sounds like the BEC survived the voltage.

Buy the proper components if you want to go more than 8S. It'll cost you about the same as the plane cost you to start.

I’m sure this has been discussed, but I haven’t been able to find it. I have the 8s version of the F 22. And it’s fast, but also heavy given that I am using 6000 packs and even a pair of 7000s. I want to upgrade it so it runs on 10s or even 12s. My consideration right now is if I replace the speed control, can I get away with the stock fan and motor? From what I’m reading, I think I can. Motion says the components are only rated for eight. Obviously. It has the 150 amp speed control, but it will not run on 10s. Must be some sort of overvoltage protection. It turns on and you have control of the surfaces, but it will not throttle up. Thoughts?

[PatrickVn]

these are final decals that I inkjet printed. The problem with the injured of course is that has faded slightly. I’m going to be redoing it at some point using laser printer. Just used white decal paper. I also have a huge American flag on the bottom of it.

That looks very good :-) I'm thinking of a repaint job in the style of the F-16 Thunderbirds on top and maybe the American Flag on the bottom would be a good match to this.

[SDW2001]

I’m sure this has been discussed, but I haven’t been able to find it. I have the 8s version of the F 22. And it’s fast, but also heavy given that I am using 6000 packs and even a pair of 7000s. I want to upgrade it so it runs on 10s or even 12s. My consideration right now is if I replace the speed control, can I get away with the stock fan and motor? From what I’m reading, I think I can. Motion says the components are only rated for eight. Obviously. It has the 150 amp speed control, but it will not run on 10s. Must be some sort of overvoltage protection. It turns on and you have control of the surfaces, but it will not throttle up. Thoughts?

[SDW2001]

Has anybody painted their F-22 in a different paint scheme ? Would love to see some pictures of this if available ?

These are decals that I inkjet printed. The problem with the inkjet of course is that has faded slightly. I’m going to be redoing it at some point using a laser printer. Just used white decal paper. I also have a huge American flag on the bottom of it.

[Evan D]

Top right of page filter....photos. Probably get more returns from the rc groups page.

[PatrickVn]

Has anybody painted their F-22 in a different paint scheme ? Would love to see some pictures of this if available ?

[Evan D]

Thank you!

[xviper]

I really like the TVs I did. If there was a decent way to add yaw I would but it would make an already inefficient system even less efficient.

The way you did it was the best way. It didn't ruin the look of the plane and mimicked the way real F-22 would do it.

[Evan D]

The F-22 exhausts are 30x70mm, 4200sq/mm for the two. Remember that going from a single fan to two (even worse for square outlets) outlets, bifurcated, reduces your efflux. Then you have the two TV's which additionally reduce your efflux. XViper talked about the Eurofighter (and F-18) TV's. The outlet diameter on those are 61.5mm 2969x2 or 5938sq/mm.

I really like the TVs I did. If there was a decent way to add yaw I would but it would make an already inefficient system even less efficient.

I hope you do try something and post your results. I'm not sure but I think when they label something a size, say 90mm, they mean it's for a 90mm size fan and not that it's the inside diameter of the TV unit. The 80mm ones on my Gripen and Mig are 68.5.

[xviper]

if I could know the exhaust size of the foamie as I would like to modify with an outlet similar to this: (pic) there are several sizes 80mm, 90mm, 70mm and a 64/72mm?

You're putting a round attachment onto a "squarish" outlet - two, in fact. Any answer would be a guess. Do you have the plane in your possession? It would be a matter of doing some rough estimates to A) see if two of these vector nozzles can be adapted to the twin outlets and B) roughly calculate the square area of the narrowest part of each outlet and the square area of your vector nozzles. This would allow you to guesstimate if the nozzles will fit where you want them and also to calculate if the passageway going through the nozzles will be about the same as what's stock. It's a 90mm EDF pushing air out twin outlets. Roughly calculate what the square area is of those two outlets at the narrowest part. It's going to be part of a circle and part of a square on each side, so X2. I'm sure you can Google the equation for the area of a circle and the area of a square. Then do same with the nozzles. The airflow through a squarish passageway will not be exactly the same as what goes through a similarly sized round one, but this will give you a good approximation of what you're dealing with.
As far as I can recall, the old 90mm Eurofighter is the closest approximation to what you are trying to do. Those nozzles were the same size as what came on twin 70mm EDF jets like the SU-35 and SebArt MiG29. I don't recall seeing vector nozzles of other sizes, but I never looked that hard.
PS. I'm not so sure that twin nozzles grafted onto the end of this plane will have sufficient movement in all the desired directions. If you are planning to install a single vector nozzles, that will also be an interesting proposition. Of course, a single outlet does not have to be the same square area as twin outlets. A single large outlet will function as good as small twin outlets totalling the same square area.

[lrsd18Abn]

if I could know the exhaust size of the foamie as I would like to modify with an outlet similar to this: (pic) there are several sizes 80mm, 90mm, 70mm and a 64/72mm?

[Evan D]

Two ways. Tie a string to the ribbon cable when you pull it through. If you already pulled it through, set the plane on its nose, tail up. Tie a small nut to some string and put it in the wing opening. It'll fall down to a spot on the inside of the battery compartment side where you can get it.

[Gsky]

Any tips on how to wire an extension lead through the wing to the blue box?

Tried a coat hanger but doesn’t get round the tight bends.

[Airguardian]