Freewing 90mm F-22 Raptor - Official Thread

[xviper]

I have both. The Viper is stock. The F-22 is 8s, so the comparison may not be totally fair.
The Viper is one of the best flying EDFs I've ever owned. It's fast and very solid - tracks extremely well both on the ground and in the air, cuts through the air very precisely. With full flaps, it can slow down and float along quite slowly and still handle very well.
The F-22 is not far behind. It's also fast, naturally floaty with or without flaps due to its big, fat wings. It feels like it has to try harder to fly fast but does it anyway. Can do a high alpha pass easily and without drama and has lots of low end grunt to get out of it.
If the F-22 wasn't 8s, I'd probably pick the Viper just because it performs better and can be flown with more confidence. Presence in the air, the Viper is tops because it's more colorful. The drab military coloration of the F-22 makes it a bit bland when it's a bit farther away. Up close both look spectacular on a fly by.
Which one you choose if you could only have one, depends on whether you prefer a more visible sport type jet or a more menacing military type jet. Performance wise neither will disappoint.

[PatrickVn]

Does anybody own this plane and the Eflite 90mm Viper ? Would like your opinion on how they fly compared to each other ?

[HangarQueen]

I use a Frsky SR10 Pro receiver in mine, which has dual power supply input.
But you could have a look at the Redundancy Bus devices too, which not only have dual power supply input, but also dual receiver input through sbus, and over-current protection on each separate channel. The new RB25 series devices are expected around May of this year, which have even more interesting features.
About BEC load sharing, I don't know if that is even required here. As far as I know, and I might be terribly wrong, devices with dual power supply select one power supply at a time, but I would be interested to learn if there are devices that do actual load sharing, even though I think that with this type of models it really isn't required.
What you could do, is split your power supply over 2 power "buses", and have one BEC supply all servos and your receiver, and the other one supplying power to retracts. But again, I think that is overkill for this model. In 1:1 aviation, loads are spread over different electrical buses, to enable some sort of priority in power supply. The most essential devices are thus connected to the "essential bus", which can be powered by an onboard battery (30 minutes of power) in case all other power sources (engine generators, APU) fail. Airbus even uses a so-called RAT (Ram Air Turbine), a sort of windmill device that drives a generator, because in a fly-by-wire airplane you can't afford losing power at all.
I would love to implement stuff like this in an RC model, just for the heck of it, but it would be pointless. I prefer flying them. 😊

[TangoVector]

I just installed exactly the same one in mine 🙂
I also use dual power supply in somewhat larger or more complex (more servos) models. In the 22, I have a receiver with dual power supply input, but if you don't have any of these, you can also use dual Schottky diode devices, they cost less than a buck, and they are the cheapest and easiest way to combine two power sources. In my F22, I thus added a separate 20A BEC powered by a 3S 890mAh receiver battery.

Great advice
I have now checked Schottky diode installations and they will definitely be used in some of my planes moving forward. That being said, an installation like that provides redundancy but not load sharing by the different BEC:s, or is my electrical knowledge lacking? I use Radiomaster 16ch receiver with 8ch PWM and 8ch SBUS, this time planning on having flaps and gear via SBUS/PWM/blue box, separately powered by the ESC. I will find out if it's doable and how complex it gets. What receiver do you use?

[HangarQueen]

I just installed exactly the same one in mine 🙂
I also use dual power supply in somewhat larger or more complex (more servos) models. In the 22, I have a receiver with dual power supply input, but if you don't have any of these, you can also use dual Schottky diode devices, they cost less than a buck, and they are the cheapest and easiest way to combine two power sources. In my F22, I thus added a separate 20A BEC powered by a 3S 890mAh receiver battery.

[xviper]

I'm using one of these ESCs in my 8S F-22:

https://www.rc-castle.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=8696

Comes with and adjustable BEC and reverse. It is likely identical to the one that will come stock in my 8S Eurofighter. I left the BEC set at whatever it came as (can't say what it is) and it has been working all season like that. Your plane may have 14 servos, but I doubt you'll ever crank on all of them full tilt at the same time.

[TangoVector]

Any recommendations for a SBEC/UBEC that handles 8S input?

I started to count the number of servos on my F22 and after ending up at 14 including gear and TV, I have decided to go with a separate SBEC on my 8S version since the ESC I use only puts out 5.5V/8A. I want it to be at least 6V and 14A peak. I plan to use the ESC to power gear and lights. CastleCreations BEC 2.0 seems lika good idea.

[HangarQueen]

You can make a light controller and/or custom gear/door sequencer using something like an ATTiny85 chip. Costs around $4, weighs around 3 grams, behaves exactly the way you program it to behave. Arduino compatible so easy to program.
https://www.amazon.com/DBParts-ATTIN...ef=sr_1_2_sspa

Absolutely.
I did make my own lights controller, for a model that I still haven't finished after 10 years, a B737-300. It is configurable to use inputs to control strobes, anti-collision, navigation and landing lights, depending on the configuration of the aircraft. I really had great fun with that, but never actually used it in a model.
For the gear sequencer, however, it will be easier to just program the radio to do this.
When I bought the F22 model, I was very eager to maiden it, and so I used this Assan sequencer that was sitting in a drawer. It works well, once configured, but having to initialize it before each flight (3 consecutive toggles of the gear channel) is a bit of a pain. In summer, I left the gear down when powering the model down, put new batteries in and began a second flight. As I forgot to initialize the sequencer, nose gear didn't retract. Not a big problem really, rather a nuisance. From then on I took the habit of retracting the gear before powering down, just as a simple reminder for the next flight.

[kallend]

You can make a light controller and/or custom gear/door sequencer using something like an ATTiny85 chip. Costs around $4, weighs around 3 grams, behaves exactly the way you program it to behave. Arduino compatible so easy to program.

https://www.amazon.com/DBParts-ATTINY85-20PU-DIP-8-ATTINY85-Microcontroller/dp/B07Z39J6CH/ref=sr_1_2_sspa

[HangarQueen]

If you have the MCBe for lights it's a no brainer to use it for the gear too and bypass everything else if you like. Does the time to retract bother you that much?

It's not so much about bothering me, it's just that it is useless. I'm used to retract gear immediately after rotation and positive climb, and as such it would be irritating to have to wait for no reason at all for it to actually retract. I have enough channels, so I don't have any need for the mcb-e except for the lights (and even for that I could just add some series resistors if I really wanted to get rid of the box completely, but I don't).
I wanted to use tailerons, I wanted to use separate nose wheel steering (with a lot more expo), et cetera; all of those things make the box redundant, or even a problem to implement this.
I'm not against this box, I just don't need it for the purpose it was designed for, namely reduce the number of required receiver channels. I just tried to list the possible disadvantages, all of which have been reported here, that's all.

[Evan D]

If you have the MCBe for lights it's a no brainer to use it for the gear too and bypass everything else if you like. Does the time to retract bother you that much?

[HangarQueen]

Don't you need something else plugged into the box to provide power for the lights? Eg. retracts?

Good question, I'm not really sure which one, but I did connect a channel to the box to supply it with power.

To follow up my previous reply (was in a hurry then), I used an external sequencer (Assan) for the front gear doors, but this has the disadvantage that you have to "arm" it before each flight, or it won't operate. I might replace this with a sequencer programmed into my radio, but this would then require yet another channel (the advantage of the external sequencer is that it requires only one channel, landing gear, as input). I can add this extra channel through an s-bus converter, so I'm a bit lazy to do that.
Basically, the mcb-e was designed to allow people with a 6-channel radio to operate this model, but the known disadvantages are

• multiple reports/claims of problems with this box. Reports of bad soldering, bad contacts. On the other hand, lots of people using this box without any problem.
• an irritating delay in raising the gear after selecting gear up (why I used a separate sequencer instead)
• some people object to the relatively heavy flatcable that is being used to connect wing servos to the box.

[xviper]

I left the MCB-E in only for the lights.

Don't you need something else plugged into the box to provide power for the lights? Eg. retracts?

[HangarQueen]

Steering: I fly Jeti DS16v2 with a Jeti Duplex EX R10 REX Assist 2.4GHz Receiver, can I by pass the MCB-E “Nose Steering” and plug nose steering Servo directly into a channel on my receiver without any worry of data confusion on other components on MCB-E??

MCB-E:

Not sure if I can or need to completely bypass the controversial Bluebox (MCB-E)

Unfortunately, transportation & storage limitations will force me to remove both wings after a day of flight.

Frankly, after much research, I’m very concerned, about the MCB-E. Any MCB-E recommendations for my configuration much appreciated. 🙏

If you have a receiver with enough channels, you can bypass the MCB-E.
I use a 10-channel receiver on mine, so I can mix tailerons and such, and use a separate channel for nose wheel steering.
I left the MCB-E in only for the lights.

[Evan D]

The first one for FW was on the F-14.

I am using the Reflex in a 64mm Rafale. It converts standard AER to elevons, sets throws plus has a gyro and self leveling mode. I like it on one hand but on the other you can't change the programming in it other than selecting another airplane from the on line dashboard software.

[xviper]

Thank you xviper for your detailed response. That helps a lot.
Just for clarification, when you refer to "control boxes", do mean like, Aura 8, Reflex?
Freewing hasn’t started putting any type of "control boxes" in their planes yet have they?

No, by "control box", I mean the Freewing units like what they put into planes like the B2 and the upcoming Eurofighter. In the B2, the control box does mixing for drag brakes, elevons, etc. In the Eurofighter, it mixes for canards, elevons. On other planes, the blue box can also do gear door sequencing. I look at "control boxes" like the next evolution of "blue boxes". So far, neither blue boxes nor control boxes have gyro capability. Here is the "control box" for the B-2:

https://www.motionrc.com/products/freewing-twin-70mm-b-2-spirit-bomber-control-box-fj31711104

It does a bit more than your "MCB" (or blue box), which I view as that integrates what we would normally use "Y's" for. It collects leads from various mirror servos and pushes out a single lead to the RX - eg, ailerons, flaps, dual elevators, dual rudders, retracts.

Things like Aura8 are part gyro, part flight controller. The FMS Reflex is like part gyro, part "collector" (Y's").

[RCGeekMark]

Thank you xviper for your detailed response. That helps a lot.

[xviper]

Steering: I fly Jeti DS16v2 with a Jeti Duplex EX R10 REX Assist 2.4GHz Receiver, can I by pass the MCB-E “Nose Steering” and plug nose steering Servo directly into a channel on my receiver without any worry of data confusion on other components on MCB-E??

MCB-E:

Not sure if I can or need to completely bypass the controversial Bluebox (MCB-E)

Unfortunately, transportation & storage limitations will force me to remove both wings after a day of flight.

Frankly, after much research, I’m very concerned, about the MCB-E. Any MCB-E recommendations for my configuration much appreciated. 🙏

I can't speak directly about Jeti, as I use only Spektrum. However, it's very common for the nose steering to be isolated from the "blue box", so it can be controlled via the rotary knob or when a steering gyro is added. I think it's only when you isolate the retracts that a problem can arise as the blue box re-directs power from the retract circuit for things like lights. If you remove the blue box entirely, that is no longer an issue but you'll need a light controller.
I've encountered issues with the earlier blue boxes, as in the T-33 and one other Freewing plane. I've kept it on my F-22, except for the steering servo (connected to a steering gyro) and so far, there have not been any issues. To have more "peace of mind" some owners have bypassed the critical control surfaces from the blue box, such as AIL, ELE. These "blue boxes" should not be confused with the newer models that have "control boxes" that do a lot of mixing within. Bypassing control boxes can lead to a more complicated radio set up.

[RCGeekMark]

Steering: I fly Jeti DS16v2 with a Jeti Duplex EX R10 REX Assist 2.4GHz Receiver, can I by pass the MCB-E “Nose Steering” and plug nose steering Servo directly into a channel on my receiver without any worry of data confusion on other components on MCB-E??

MCB-E:

Not sure if I can or need to completely bypass the controversial Bluebox (MCB-E)

Unfortunately, transportation & storage limitations will force me to remove both wings after a day of flight.

Frankly, after much research, I’m very concerned, about the MCB-E. Any MCB-E recommendations for my configuration much appreciated. 🙏

[ElCid]

I will report back once it gets here and after the first flight.i was looking at the combos and the esc that I already have will work fine withe this fan motor combo.

Dropped the new 12 blade v2 fan into my Raptor with the stock ESC and it feels far more responsive, and the vertical is effortless. Feel is very subjective, but it does feel better now. Sounds fantastic...

I managed 3:30 mins of useful throttle on a total flight time of 4:25 not including taxing on a 5000 Mah Admrial battery, cells were +/- 3.70 volts each. No CG changes were required but i did remove the AB because the new motor is 93mm diameter. Not even sure i want to use the new FMS ESC with reverse because it flew so damn well.