Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[barron06]

Ive set the F14 up with an S8R to stabilise control surfaces with an X8R for all of the 'other' stuff. I would have used an SBUS extender but the high refresh rate doesnt play nice with all the analogue stuff in the F14 PNP.

Not to derail this thread but 1 Q.. Do you know if the retracts both old (F-14) and new (Mig-29) care about the faster refresh rate? Though Taranis does say analog servos seem to work fine generally, they do not recommend their use with the sbus extender. I had forgot about this and have been flying my TC with it on flaps for a while. Guess I better move them around.

[Ghostman]

Since it’s the largest Freewing to date, why not twin 90mm EDF. Will there be an upgrade to twin 90mm available?

[Corsair nut]

alfa...3d setup lools clean man!

90s would fit with mods im sure. Would have to make the cheater holes a bit bigger.

[ms200a]

ARF Plus on order, After successfully converting the F-18, F-4 and Mig21, to KingTech K30 this will be my first twin turbine. Stainless steel for pipes has been ordered as the 1/64 plywood sheeting to insulate the tunnels :-)

[AceMigKiller]

Niiiice!

[AceMigKiller]

Since it’s the largest Freewing to date, why not twin 90mm EDF. Will there be an upgrade to twin 90mm available?

I'm sure you could hog it out and stuff some 90's in there, but knowing how Alpha works, this design has been found optimal for the twin 80mm inrunner setup and I'm not gonna mess with that.

Today's 80mm setups and particularly the system that comes with this Mig are phenomenal. It would be difficult, more expensive and probably not worth the hassle and extra weight of finding a 90mm system that would keep the plane within an acceptable weight and thrust-per-pound range.

You'd just jack up the wing loading... personal opinion.

[Big12fan]

The 9bl fan is just a way more efficient design. Thats really all there is too it. Heck..check out how well 1 9bl fan flew my freewing f18...pretty dang good imo! And that was the out runner. Imagine if it had the inrunner setup!

https://youtu.be/Z0EDarySoJo

Not to be a negative Nancy (sorry Nancy) but the the inrunner 12 blade set up flies my F-18 bad ass too. But if alpha doesn’t think the set up that way is worth it (mainly because of no gain for the cost increase) I’m probably going to cancel my arf plus order and just keep the pnp. I ordered a pnp today because as of now I’m not sure what I want to do.

[James]

Not to be a negative Nancy (sorry Nancy) but the the inrunner 12 blade set up flies my F-18 bad ass too. But if alpha doesn’t think the set up that way is worth it (mainly because of no gain for the cost increase) I’m probably going to cancel my arf plus order and just keep the pnp. I ordered a pnp today because as of now I’m not sure what I want to do.

You could always change out the motors afterwards, then you have 2 great 80mm Inrunner systems for cheaper than they would be by themselves and get two different 80mm ARF+ to put them in....That what we like to call a win/win

[James]

Guys, just back from the field after a great day of flying and filming the MiG-29. Had Major Patrick Croasdale on the sticks and we ran it through 4000's, 5100's, 6000's, grass ops, endurance flight, high alpha flight. Lots of fun today. Stay tuned to YouTube as we will be releasing them over the course of the next few days and weeks.

[T-CAT]

From a value standpoint, the PNP wins hands-down.

Even if someone decides to upgrade the power system eventually, purchasing the PNP often allows a person to sell the power system(s) for a price that outweighs the difference in cost of the ARF+ vs PNP, or they can use the stock power systems for other single EDF jets or twin EDF jet projects.

[Alpha]

Guys, just back from the field after a great day of flying and filming the MiG-29. Had Major Patrick Croasdale on the sticks and we ran it through 4000's, 5100's, 6000's, grass ops, endurance flight, high alpha flight. Lots of fun today. Stay tuned to YouTube as we will be releasing them over the course of the next few days and weeks.

I think everyone will love the various videos as they're published over time!


Regarding power system choice: For any aircraft we develop, there's always a Venn diagram to consider, and our primary objective in plotting a point on that diagram is to deliver the best results, not chase stats. The 80mm Inrunner setup delivered in the PNP won out over the other variations we tested (70IR, 80OR, 80IR, 90OR, 90IR).

A twin 90mm EDF in this aircraft would have increased the cost and the wingloading beyond our target threshold. In our prototype testing, the 90mm outrunner system underperformed the 80mm inrunner in cost, thrust, amps. Essentially, it cost more yet flew worse... 'Not what we'd deliver to our customers. Sure, enlarging the aircraft would work for reducing wingloading back within target, but then the shipping cost for the box jumps along with other additive costs to result in a PNP approaching $1k... 'Not the niche we're targeting with foam electric, yet.

[crxmanpat]

A twin 90mm inrunner larger than this one would be sweet, but I think you guys hit the mark with this one as delivered. Can't wait to get my grubby little hands on it!

[AceMigKiller]

'Not the niche we're targeting with foam electric, yet.

... Go on.....

[T-CAT]

... Go on.....

My thoughts exactly.

The "yet" part was intriguing.

[Robert Belluomini]

ARF Plus on order, After successfully converting the F-18, F-4 and Mig21, to KingTech K30 this will be my first twin turbine. Stainless steel for pipes has been ordered as the 1/64 plywood sheeting to insulate the tunnels :-)

what model did you obtain your waiver with??

[janmb]

THANK YOU to everyone for your amazingly positive support of our MiG-29 and its preorder. At the current rate, our reserves may likely be depleted within a week of the initial announcement, so if you're on the fence, please consider calling the ball sooner rather than later. Otherwise, no rush, there are many other birds we have until the next restock shipment.

To minimize potential confusion of what is included in the stock MiG-29 PNP and ARF, I decided to wait until the vast majority of initial units were presold. Since they now have been, five days in, I'm comfortable showing a bit more "Behind The Scenes" of an Upgrade Option for the MiG-29 which is *NOT INCLUDED IN THE PNP*, but instead is *Sold Separately*. We'll publish pricing, model photos and video, and installation instructions over the coming 3-4 weeks, as we tidy those details. But for now, here's a peak at what we've been playing with.

Full Aspect 3DTV (360 degree 3D Thrust Vectoring) Upgrade Set

The gold area in these renders shows what is included in the Upgrade Set, including the four servos needed to drive the nozzles. The Upgrade Set is intended for advanced users only, since it significantly widens the flight maneuver envelope of the aircraft. The Upgrade Set is designed for a user to conveniently install it as a refit kit to their stock MiG-29 in less than 30 minutes. Simply part the existing foam seam to remove the stock nozzle, then glue in the Set and route the wires for the four servos. Mix to your liking, and go have fun with your inverted flat spins (just don't blame me for involuntary dirt naps!).

Looks brilliant!

So basically same concept as for the old school vectoring jets it seems.

Based on those renders, it does look like the inner diameter is reduced a tad though (compared to the stock, non VT ducting). Is that correct?

[mshagg]

Not to derail this thread but 1 Q.. Do you know if the retracts both old (F-14) and new (Mig-29) care about the faster refresh rate? Though Taranis does say analog servos seem to work fine generally, they do not recommend their use with the sbus extender. I had forgot about this and have been flying my TC with it on flaps for a while. Guess I better move them around.

I couldnt get the F14's retracts or wing sweep to play nice with the decoder. In fact the only thing that would respond to it was the nose wheel steering which wasnt a lot of help lol. Frustratingly others have been able to use it with the retracts and the wing sweep so im not sure what was up there. This was the frsky one so maybe some of the aftermarket units are more forgiving.

[mshagg]

I noticed the third strap on the ply plate in the middle of the battery area - presumably you can get creative with placement to get your CG right.

Would be neat to see some of the configurations with various size packs to hit book CG - if people need to use that middle tray (i assume for heavy 6000+ packs?) it might prompt some thinking about receiver placement etc.

[Gringotuerto]

I was looking at batteries - the video says 4000-6000mAh. But the plane seems same weight and same wing loading as the A-10, and at least for me the A-10 would never work on 4000mAh. It is my shortest-flying jet even with 5000's, and the batteries come back hot (a 4000 would be even hotter at the same current). Maybe I am too ham-fisted on the throttle, but anyway that is how the A-10 is for me.

So anyway, it leads to a question - given that the weight and wing loading is similar, is there some reason the battery needs for this Mig29 would be any different than the A-10? Is the motor/fan/ducting much different? Is the airframe much lower drag? Or anything else? If they are similar in battery requirement, then I probably wouldn't go for 4000's, just based on my A-10 experience. Well, maybe I could try 4000's on the A-10 sometime and see - certainly the lower weight should lower the current a bit, but I don't think it would lower it by a ratio of 4/5. Shedding 200g on a 6kg plane is only losing 3.3% of the weight.

[Evan D]

James, during the intro video it looked like the flaps were able to deflect up as well as down. Can you verify this and the amount please. I plan on full span ailerons.