Official Freewing MiG-29 Fulcrum Twin 80mm Thread

[mshagg]

I missed that statement from him. What was his reasoning for that? My feelings on it is that a sudden change like this can cause an undesirable upset in the plane's movement through the air. I just don't see flaps as an "ON/OFF" thing.

Something to do with the way that servos generate torque (they want to move to a position as quickly as they can). It was a discussion during one of his livesteams. Must admit i dont fully understand the point, but happy to take Alpha at his word lol.

I guess if airspeed is being managed appropriately, as is needed with the Mig 29, rapid flap deployment is less of an issue as the pitching moment isnt as significant.

[Skosh25]

I’d like the upgrade kit retroactive as well since I bought the jet last fall as one of the first preorders. I’ve done several upgrades and have over a hundred fights with no issues but would like the peace of mind that comes with this factory tested and approved change.

[kallend]

Which one is it?

Good question. To break those arms requires a lot of stress, and the only reason there's a lot of stress there is the aerodynamic design of the airframe.

[GliderGuy]

Good question. To break those arms requires a lot of stress, and the only reason there's a lot of stress there is the aerodynamic design of the airframe.

AND....many of us have moved to the inner hole on the servo arm. This change SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the stress on the arm. Said another way, it takes a LOT MORE force to break an arm when the stress is applied at the inner hole.

-GG

[xviper]

I guess if airspeed is being managed appropriately, as is needed with the Mig 29, rapid flap deployment is less of an issue as the pitching moment isnt as significant.

This is true. However, I think that's where some people have a problem. They don't understand airspeed management and how it relates to flap deployment.

[Evan D]

But doesn’t having SAFE negate having to worry about all this??


As far as retroactive kits to stock o think everything in one kit would be best and to have the servos available separately for other uses.

[Tom]

AND....many of us have moved to the inner hole on the servo arm. This change SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the stress on the arm. Said another way, it takes a LOT MORE force to break an arm when the stress is applied at the inner hole.

-GG

The directions always said which hole to use in the elevator servo horn. I believe it was 3 crashes of all the planes sold that crashed due to the elevator servo horn breaking and those were using the outer hole. That said, I can't blame people for not following the directions. If the plane can't handle the use of the outer servo horn hole, it should not be there. I made this point to the factory and the metal servo horns now have only a single hole which eliminates any confusion. hopefully that clears it up. For all of you worried about the servo horn on your original plane, I would not worry. If you are using the correct hole and you have not had an issue, I don't think you will have an issue. That said, I'll try to get a bunch of the metal servo horns if anyone feels like upgrading. If a bunch of people want them quickly, I'll pay for the air freight to get them here if there is interest.

[HarmLess]

Nice to see some movement here :D, unfortunately no stock in the EU warehouse yet... Hopefully we will be able to order soon :D

[kallend]

Something to do with the way that servos generate torque (they want to move to a position as quickly as they can). It was a discussion during one of his livesteams. Must admit i dont fully understand the point, but happy to take Alpha at his word lol.

I guess if airspeed is being managed appropriately, as is needed with the Mig 29, rapid flap deployment is less of an issue as the pitching moment isnt as significant.

There has been a lot of discussion in Avanti threads about flap servos not responding well to slow speed of operation.

[GliderGuy]

Hi Tom...
The move to the inner hole was done to increase the servo’s ability to handle the loads. One of the many things proposed by the group. Made sense to me.

As far as the upgrade...

Full kit
Full kit minus servos

And yes....RC pilots can be clueless about flaps.

Thanks!

-GG

[Evan D]

The original servo had three holes and the the instructions said use the middle one. A lot of us used the inner most one to get better mechanical advantage.

[Tom]

Nice to see some movement here :D, unfortunately no stock in the EU warehouse yet... Hopefully we will be able to order soon :D

UGGHH. I know. Freewing had not shipped a batch to the EU warehouse yet. Freewing said they will be shipping this month but unfortunately transit time is 2 months now due to the massive backlog at the ports. Unfortunately, that means the best case is 2 months for an ETA to the EU. I wish I had better news.

[RudyD54]

There has been a lot of discussion in Avanti threads about flap servos not responding well to slow speed of operation.

I’ve got flap deployment set to 2 seconds on all of my planes and have not come across any issues yet. Is this something that’s come up immediately or after some time?

[RudyD54]

The directions always said which hole to use in the elevator servo horn. I believe it was 3 crashes of all the planes sold that crashed due to the elevator servo horn breaking and those were using the outer hole. That said, I can't blame people for not following the directions. If the plane can't handle the use of the outer servo horn hole, it should not be there. I made this point to the factory and the metal servo horns now have only a single hole which eliminates any confusion. hopefully that clears it up. For all of you worried about the servo horn on your original plane, I would not worry. If you are using the correct hole and you have not had an issue, I don't think you will have an issue. That said, I'll try to get a bunch of the metal servo horns if anyone feels like upgrading. If a bunch of people want them quickly, I'll pay for the air freight to get them here if there is interest.

Metal servo arms were something I had considered previously so I’m definitely in for a set of those and the reinforced control horns. I’ve seen some minor bending/twisting on one of mine so I’ve replaced them once already. A reinforced set would give me one less thing to worry about.

[sfcfury]

I would be interested in the upgrade kit... I ordered mine when the 23g servos came in the box. I have yet to maiden mine, but I have watched this thread from almost day one and did most of the concurred suggestions on the forum.

[Gringotuerto]

.. how would you like to see this bundled as a spare part? ..

I would just get all the parts shown in the picture at that bulletin. The only thing I did was install the recommended 23g servo - no other upgrade. I am guessing there are a lot of us in that same situation. But of course no harm in breaking it down further...just more work for you, I guess. Separating out the servos might make sense just because they cost more than the rods/horns, but the rest seems too small to bother with.

[Sky Wolf]

I’m in agreement with Evan D and Glider Guy...full kit (with metal horns) minus the servos. I believe that most who elected to change out to the 23g servos would feel better just knowing they have the upgraded hardware. I haven’t heard that the servos were failing. For that matter, those that didn’t change out from the 17g servos are claiming to still be fine.

Maybe have both options, as Glider Guy suggested? With, for those who want the full protection; and without servos, to keep it affordable for most.

[Tom]

Thanks for all the feedback. I'll talk to Freewing. I'm thinking of doing three kits:
1) Full kit
2) Metal control horns, push rods, and metal clevis only (hardware pack)
3) servos only (likely less demand for this one but always good to have extra servos on hand)

If there is any other feedback, please let me know. keep it coming. I appreciate it!

I saw some questions about the slow deployment of flaps. This is general and applies to all planes. From my recollection, it was about amp draw. We had a small set of customers who slowed their flap deployment down to around 7-10 seconds. When the flaps were deployed that slowly, they drew more amperage. Since the flaps were going down so slowly, usually at some point during the flaps deployment process, the gear was put down and this often happened while in a turn. With all these things going on at once and extra amperage going to the flaps, we saw a couple cases where the BEC was overwhelmed. That was how the recommendation for flaps came about. 2-3 second deployment is not an issue. 5+ can become an issue.

[Nickc2023]

We don't have spare stock yet but I will make sure more of these parts are on the way. One thing I need to check is if the new metal servo arm will fit any other servos or just the 30g servo. I don't recall if the spline is a different size on the 30g vs the other servos. How you you guys prefer to see this packaged as a spare part? Typically, we have a set of push rods as one spare part, servo horns as another, and servos as a third. Is that too complex? If so, how would you like to see this bundled as a spare part? I can talk to Freewing and make spare part packaging changes based on your feedback. I also need to know what parts you guys specifically want. Do you want to upgrade servos or do they only want the hardware? If only the hardware, I need to figure out if the 30g metal servo horn fit the 23g servo. Are you interested in the thicker push rods and clevis only? I need to know what parts you guys want to upgrade. Here is a link showing a picture of the hardware: https://www.motionrc.com/pages/produ...n-80mm-edf-jet

If freewing has decided to go with 30g servos and metal horns then that's what I want. I, like many others have a lot of $$$ and time in this jet. The last thing I wanna do is kick myself later for not doing a simple upgrade.

[Evan D]

Mine is still for sale on RCG. Has TVs, stronger than the FW upgrade servos, horns, linkage, extensions plus reflex (ailerons, flaps and tips) and other mods.