FMS 80MM Dassault Rafale

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  • JLambCWU
    replied
    Click image for larger version  Name:	89EEF540-33CF-4FB9-A48F-F28908E18AD5.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	233.9 KB ID:	304934Click image for larger version  Name:	CC27C81C-9C4B-4F9B-BA1E-A8330C01156E.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	175.0 KB ID:	304933Click image for larger version  Name:	5ACCEBF4-2FF2-416F-883D-425559BB3C7C.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	152.6 KB ID:	304932Click image for larger version  Name:	AE414AE8-4551-4985-94F9-700C88050C5D.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	116.2 KB ID:	304930Click image for larger version  Name:	141C1F0C-CF47-4B77-B6D5-EEBBC40A35D5.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	140.8 KB ID:	304931Click image for larger version  Name:	29896C6F-8D5F-4229-B5DF-F3D59F20A635.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	114.3 KB ID:	304929Click image for larger version  Name:	50F9FCE0-EB3C-4460-A6EE-EBEFEB9317FB.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	92.4 KB ID:	304927Click image for larger version  Name:	D8B2D966-BB1A-46D8-A871-6F86CD5697A5.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	96.1 KB ID:	304928Click image for larger version  Name:	FEF1737F-D498-49C6-B474-EEA3A7C0A8CC.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	162.4 KB ID:	304926Click image for larger version  Name:	F82CDDE3-BA86-4FC7-9A66-B74C963007CD.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	150.0 KB ID:	304925 MAIDEN FLIGHT AND REVIEW

    Spring has sprung here in the mountains of northern Utah!

    The Rafale goes together really quick. From the box being delivered to my porch to being ready to fly was less than :30 min. The finish is great, but the paint scheme is LOUD. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing though as I fly late into/after sunset and the scheme helps with orientation.

    I set the aircraft up in my transmitter as a normal wing with aileron and flap. The internal mixing board handles the rest. (See my included picture for flap rates and settings.) Position 0 is flaps up. Position 1 is approach flaps. Position 2 is landing flaps. At approach flaps, I have 18 units of nose up elevon and canard compensation. At landing/full flaps I have 24 units of nose up compensation. I have the book high rate elevator for landing with the flaps, and use book medium rate for landing without flaps, more on that later.

    I have book low, and high settings for aileron, elevator, and rudder. I also have medium rates in the middle of those.

    For the maiden flight I went with low aileron and medium elevator rates, with a Roaring Top 5000mah 70C pushed all the way back, she flew perfectly. Flight time was 3:30 with 3.7v/cell.

    I fly off a long smooth asphalt strip, and 200ft into the takeoff roll she smoothly rotated and lifted off. The takeoff speed was fast, but i was trying to avoid the pop off the ground others had demonstrated on early YouTube videos from Asia. With the 5500mah Roaring Top pushed all the way back, the CG sits in the aft half of the recommended range at 125mm from the reference mark. Roll was about right without flaps, but pitch was just slightly sensitive at this CG on medium rates with 40% expo for both.

    The model is moderately fast in the 105-110mph range, but the airframe is draggy. She slows quickly even without ordinance drag, and even more so with. She has a beautiful Airframe howl above 80% power at speed, and will cruise comfortably in the clean configuration with 50-60% power on a good battery.
    Stalls were accomplished gear up and down, they were pretty tame without rapid pitch or wing drop unless doing an accelerated stall. Gentle stall entry with rudder work gives a nice falling leaf descent without wing drop at full aft elevator.

    Flap deployment was smooth at approach and landing flap settings with no pitch up or down when configured per my settings. The model will rapidly sink below half power once flaps have been deployed at approach settings, and even more so at full. The flap “crow” setting built into the mixing board puts the elevons down on the inner surfaces and up on the outer surfaces to act as flaps. This functions as a flap but also a speed brake, with the canards deflecting up to compensate for nose down pitch. In the real aircraft this allows the jet to have the motors spooled higher which the Rafale uses for carrier ops.

    CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION
    Because of how the mixing board deploys the flap function, you have less pitch authority once they are deployed. I found myself running out of pitch authority as soon as I slowed to a speed closer to where a lighter model would have been ok, especially on my medium elevator rates. Post maiden flights showed that landing with approach and full flaps required HIGH elevator rates to have adequate pitch authority to flare for touchdown unless landing very fast. The model lands fine on MEDIUM elevator rates without flaps in a nice nose high flare at a SLOWER speed than with flaps.

    Takeoffs were accomplished clean and I also tried half flaps. With half flaps the takeoff roll was longer and needed a much higher speed to have pitch authority to rotate. This was tried on medium and high elevator rates. On high rates she will rotate faster, but rapidly pops off the ground once the speed is high enough to get pitch authority. Probably suitable to grass ops, but the takeoff is very unscale.

    The 80mm Rafale is a beautiful model. She is no speed demon but is powered well. The model is heavy for its size and doesn’t float or high alpha the way the Freewing Gripen will, but this was expected with the weight difference. I test flew everything from a 6000-4000mah battery with 15 flights on the maiden day. Lighter batteries of course give the aircraft more acceleration and vertical, and let it fly a little slower and high alpha a little better with the lighter wing loading. I flew 6 different brands of batteries in her and the best performing was the 4400mah 70C Roaring Top. It’s the right punch for the weight and the sweet spot on this model. Aft and Forward CGs were all attempted too. Aft becomes squirrelly in pitch and roll even at medium rates, and forward requires a lot more pitch with HIGH elevator rates.

    The mixing board is well done and the flap function is fun to play with, but again, the model actually lands slower without the flaps. CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION again, the flap function requires higher power and speed even at aft CG ranges or you will run out of pitch authority before you’re on the ground even with High rate elevator.

    Overall a fun and well executed model.

    Leave a comment:


  • Quickstop
    replied
    Once someone starts getting free product and is making money selling the same product they are no longer objective, regardless of what they claim. That’s just the way it is

    Leave a comment:


  • kallend
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan D
    I agree. I've even seen people say they fly great during the unboxing. Then there are those here on line that say the same with reference to the real aircraft and physics or other models.
    I'm not aware of any aircraft, full size or model, that doesn't obey the laws of physics.

    The issue is whether the writer understands the laws of physics.

    Leave a comment:


  • SanExup
    replied
    Like politicians, we can count on honest reviews and idealism until the money starts flowing and the debt is owed. From that point on, it's all salesmanship. Then they can't find enough amazement, adjectives and adverbs, or yippees, to describe how incredible (insert new model here) this thing is!

    Leave a comment:


  • radfordc
    replied
    Originally posted by xviper
    I don't think that's what Cap. Moron was getting at. The old saying, "You can tell more from what someone DOESN'T say than from what he said", applies here. Rich is trying to be as diplomatic as he can (for reasons that are obvious to most people) and of course, he's being a "pitch man" for the company where the products came from. You can tell when something isn't a good or desirable thing, he doesn't say anything or he says it in such a way as to redirect what he really thinks about it. You can also tell a lot from the tone of what he says. It's like listening to and watching a politician on TV. It's got nothing to do with being "stretched thin".
    As long as you understand that he is "selling" more than "telling" and take most of his hyperbole with a grain of salt you should be OK. I made the mistake of jumping on the E-flite Su-30 based on his reviews (you know...greatest plane to ever fly, etc, etc.). Turns out there is a lot to not like about the Su-30 that he didn't mention. Wish I had done more due diligence first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan D
    replied
    I agree. I've even seen people say they fly great during the unboxing. Then there are those here on line that say the same with reference to the real aircraft and physics or other models.

    Leave a comment:


  • kallend
    replied
    Originally posted by SanExup
    He didn't say holy smokes enough. Perhaps the flight time was so short he only got a few in.

    I actually wish the "reviewers" would do a fourth or fifth flight review. Where we.can see the strengths and weaknesses of the given plane. Instead of the initial unveiling maiden flight of a new product to showcase.

    It's like the written reviews of planes that say, "this plane is the best plane I've ever owned, I can't wait to take it fully out of the box fly it for the first time."

    Uh, fly it for a day, then tell us what you think...
    I wouldn't call them reviewers - they are infomercial hosts.

    And just because someone has a slick video editor and a Youtube channel does not imply that he is knowledgeable about R/C modeling.

    Leave a comment:


  • radfordc
    replied
    Originally posted by SanExup
    I actually wish the "reviewers" would do a fourth or fifth flight review. Where we.can see the strengths and weaknesses of the given plane. Instead of the initial unveiling maiden flight of a new product to showcase.

    It's like the written reviews of planes that say, "this plane is the best plane I've ever owned, I can't wait to take it fully out of the box fly it for the first time."

    Uh, fly it for a day, then tell us what you think...
    Exactly! I watched a "review" video of a maiden flight. Less than 15 seconds into the flight the reviewer was raving about the flight characteristics. Just stupid!

    Leave a comment:


  • Mtpisgah99
    replied
    Originally posted by xviper
    I kinda think that no seller would do much about that (sticker blister). MRC “might” do something like send you a new wing, but I would be doubtful. If it were my plane and I get nowhere with the seller, I would take a tiny pin and poke a hole in the middle of each individual bubble and massage the air out. If it sticks back down, done. If it doesn’t stick, then I’d use a hobby iron (not too hot) and give a bit of an iron.
    i just want to tell Horizon Hobby (FYI) the airplane issued. however, getting contacted with Horizon Hobby is very hard. i think its MOTION RC fault. MRC spoiled us (me) by getting answered and expedite the product problems right away. anyway, i know how to fix that bubble. i started fixing it and i stop to take a picture, it was worst than that picture attached. OHH, WELL. i'd get another one from HOBBY ZONE (good customer service so far) as a back up airplane. will deliver this friday, ordered it on monday and ($30 less @ chkout vs horizon hobby total $) fast service!!!!!
    Dear

    Your Hobby Zone order HZ-********** is complete and has shipped. Here are the tracking numbers:

    Track my package **********

    Thank you for your business!
    Return Policy: Examine the contents of your order immediately and let us know if there is a problem. Complete details of our return policy are listed on our website. Returns will not be accepted without an RMA number. If a package has been damaged in shipping or if you have received defective merchandise, please contact us for further instructions. Our address is HOBBY ZONE, 7171 Shady Oak Road, Eden Prairie, MN 55344. You can contact us by phone at 888-953-9663 or by email at info@hobbyzone.com.

    Leave a comment:


  • xviper
    replied
    Originally posted by Mtpisgah99
    got mine. i tried to email Horizon Hobby about big (nickel size) bubble in the main wing yellow sticker but keep telling me website/email not working, try again....WTF. that's the different bet. MRC and horizon hobby. MRC good customer service. horizon hobby sucks.
    I kinda think that no seller would do much about that (sticker blister). MRC “might” do something like send you a new wing, but I would be doubtful. If it were my plane and I get nowhere with the seller, I would take a tiny pin and poke a hole in the middle of each individual bubble and massage the air out. If it sticks back down, done. If it doesn’t stick, then I’d use a hobby iron (not too hot) and give a bit of an iron.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mtpisgah99
    replied
    got mine. i tried to email Horizon Hobby about big (nickel size) bubble in the main wing yellow sticker but keep telling me website/email not working, try again....WTF. that's the different bet. MRC and horizon hobby. MRC good customer service. horizon hobby sucks.
    Attached Files

    Leave a comment:


  • RudyD54
    replied
    🙌 mine has shipped!

    Leave a comment:


  • xviper
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan D
    On RCG there is a reported Raf shipped from HH...
    I'll wait for a "proper" and realistic review (as opposed to the promotional reviews, aka - informercials, we've seen so far) from you and other real world users before jumping off the fence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan D
    replied
    On RCG there is a reported Raf shipped from HH...

    Leave a comment:


  • xviper
    replied
    Originally posted by barron06

    Agreed - FYI to anyone how does not know:
    It had been a while since I ordered from MRC but when I preordered the Gripen. I changed my mind about it and decided to cancel (Still hadn't arrived on the boat). This is when I found out that you can not cancel an order, even a pre-order. This was not the case earlier. You can ship it back, no problem, but I'm not sure about who pays for shipping. So, be sure you want the pre-order or whatever you're ordering. In contrast to HH, mrc takes you money even before it ships but at least they are upfront about it. With mrc at least they don't charge state sales tax (I prefer to pay mine when I do my taxes).
    Between COVID and the post office castration, things are really jacked in the supply chain. I've given up on ever finding 2 of my orders. This was before the post office issues related to the election.
    Re: Motion pre-orders ......................................... This must be something new. I pre-ordered the OV-10, cancelled it a few weeks later, got a full refund on my CC. This was during the height of the Covid-19 thing and finances were a bit up and down. When my finances got better, I ordered the OV-10 again.

    Leave a comment:


  • barron06
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan D
    Absolutely a good thing they do that...



    Agreed - FYI to anyone how does not know:
    It had been a while since I ordered from MRC but when I preordered the Gripen. I changed my mind about it and decided to cancel (Still hadn't arrived on the boat). This is when I found out that you can not cancel an order, even a pre-order. This was not the case earlier. You can ship it back, no problem, but I'm not sure about who pays for shipping. So, be sure you want the pre-order or whatever you're ordering. In contrast to HH, mrc takes you money even before it ships but at least they are upfront about it. With mrc at least they don't charge state sales tax (I prefer to pay mine when I do my taxes).
    Between COVID and the post office castration, things are really jacked in the supply chain. I've given up on ever finding 2 of my orders. This was before the post office issues related to the election.

    Leave a comment:


  • xviper
    replied
    My virtual modeling account pays for vaporware.

    Leave a comment:


  • kallend
    replied
    Originally posted by xviper
    At least that's one good thing about a Horizon pre-order. Your money stays with you till they actually have the product to send out. I really hate paying up front on pre-orders months ahead of time of shipping and I won't do it anymore.
    While this is true, the money has already been withdrawn from the virtual modeling account that I keep in my head. So canceling the Rafale pre-order allowed me to spend money on the F-15 and Hawker Hunter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Evan D
    replied
    Absolutely a good thing they do that...


    Originally posted by xviper
    At least that's one good thing about a Horizon pre-order. Your money stays with you till they actually have the product to send out. I really hate paying up front on pre-orders months ahead of time of shipping and I won't do it anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • xviper
    replied
    Originally posted by Evan D
    Yes, we've watched you go from wanting one plane to another to another and back and forth... 🤣
    "But I must have internet feedback on my decisions so I know I'm doing the right thing. That's why I post pictures of my plate of food on Facebook and beg for everyone to "subscribe" to my YouTube channel because I need the validation."

    Leave a comment:

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