Official Freewing 90mm F-16 Falcon Thread

[Aros]

Wow the 6250s are lighter than the 5500s? Hmmmm, food for thought!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Wow the 6250s are lighter than the 5500s? Hmmmm, food for thought!

Makes some sense, as theoretically, a higher C battery should be heavier, all other things being equal. The RT 5500 45C is 25gr lighter than the 5500 70C. But at 35C, even though there is an additional 750 mah, the 6250 is still 22 gr lighter than the 5500 70C, and only 3 gr heavier than the 5500 45C. Unfortunately, the Admiral 6000 50C is just a heavy as the RT 5000 70C, but 24gr heavier than the RT 6250 35C but the Admiral also tests out with a lower actual C than the RT 35C. Go figure, LIPO's are an enigma to me. :exploding_head:

[Aros]

Ah yes, the enigma of LiPos. 13+ years in and I still don't get them. I stumbled across this video that, while you did a fine job explaining Flight Modes, I am really a visual learner so this made it super easy to understand F Modes for flaps...He even mentions specifically flaperons for jets...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Ah yes, the enigma of LiPos. 13+ years in and I still don't get them. I stumbled across this video that, while you did a fine job explaining Flight Modes, I am really a visual learner so this made it super easy to understand F Modes for flaps...He even mentions specifically flaperons for jets...

WOW, great video, much better than wading through my tedious written description. He also uses rudder on his FM, which I used to do, but found that it was not necessary to trim the rudder regarding using flaps. Whatever rudder trim I used on flap up position worked with flaps anyway. As he also said, I would still recommend putting some adjustment into the Flap System settings for elevator as a starting point guess as per any manual or other pilots recommendations. If you don't, you may not have enough trim setting to get it right. See, easy peazy in 30 seconds.

[Aros]

Well since I already have settings for elev trim in my flap setup, won't that just translate over to the F Mode settings?

[Aros]

Alright Hugh Wiedman as usual nothing in my world is as easy as it should be, lol! I programmed flight modes for my F-16 this evening and as the video shows, I have some questions. Hope you can help! If not, maybe someone else can offer me a life rope (hopefully not to hang myself with).

[PaulZ]

gooniac33 Are you talking about favoring the RT 6S 35C 5800's over the 6S 70C 5500's? Curious because I love my RT 70C 5500's but if you are telling me the 35C 5800's are superior, I need to know that and you certainly have my attention! Especially since I am considering buying my 3rd HSD 105mm F-16 which has only ever been flown on the 5500/70Cs...I am always looking to maximize thrust/weight in that jet and the new version has a superior EDF unit which is the main reason why I am considering it, but the batteries are part of that equation as well so if there is a more powerful performance pack out there I am all ears!

:pop

Aros, I just bought the HSD F-16 and I am flying it with 6s 5000. 3.5min flight times no problem. The new 105mm EDF unit is more efficient.

[Aros]

PaulZ do you mean the Admiral 5000s? I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my third HSD F-16. The new EDF system with the vastly improved thrust/weight ratio has me sold. How do you like it? Is this your first?

[PaulZ]

PaulZ do you mean the Admiral 5000s? I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my third HSD F-16. The new EDF system with the vastly improved thrust/weight ratio has me sold. How do you like it? Is this your first?

Yes, this is my first HSD and that size jet. I love it, the bigger they are the better they fly and easier to land. I actually use both HRB 5000mah 50C and the RT 5000 70C. Do not see much difference in thrust but that may just be me as I know the RT's can deliver more current.

[Hugh Wiedman]

Alright Hugh Wiedman as usual nothing in my world is as easy as it should be, lol! I programmed flight modes for my F-16 this evening and as the video shows, I have some questions. Hope you can help! If not, maybe someone else can offer me a life rope (hopefully not to hang myself with).

Todd, first off, in the trim setup, BTW the DX12 is slightly different than my DX9, but lets give it a shot. I do have left and right trim and have to admit I'm not sure what that is, but have both set to Common and Norm. I recently upgrade to the DX9 from a DX6 which did not have that left and right trim, so I'm in the dark (as usual). BTW, just below that is Trims:Normal. There, if you want, you can change to crossed and the left trim switches will adjust aileron and elevator and the right switches will now adjust throttle and rudder. This would be nice to have so you can keep your fingers on the aileron/elevator stick and trim adjust either with the left hand. I'd do it, but I'm too used to it in the default way that I'm sure I'd forget I changed it when the going got tough. Should've do it early in my flying career.

Now to the main issue. Having the aileron change with the flaps is a complete mystery to me, it absolutely should not do that. I does look like you have it set up correctly though, there really isn't that much to it. And any trims you put in the Flap System are in addition to the trim switches and do not get "overwritten". That's why I said leave the adjustments there as a good starting point and then if you need to further refine the trims, you can do it in flight with the trim switches. I would remove the rudder from the trim setup and put it back to normal, not F mode. The rudder trim should not change with your flap settings, so no need to have it and up up doing 9 trims (3 each for each surface, 6 is plenty). As a matter of fact, if you ever do trim the rudder in flight, it should be the same with flaps, so if you leave it set as F mode, your rudder trim with flaps up will not carry over to the other 2 flap settings.

Go back to the main flight screen and make sure that your trim values are the same with the aileron with each flap position. If you originally trimmed the ailerons at say -6, then with flaps up it should still be at -6. However, with flap position 2 and 3, it will now show 0. Make them all the same, based on your original trims which should be shown in position 0. Now go back to the servo travel screen (in Servo Setup or Flap System-both should be the same data) and see if the ailerons are still different with each setting.

Likewise, for the elevator trim, you already trimmed that before and whatever value you have should be shown with flap position 1 (flaps up). Go to position 2 and 3 and make sure the trim value on the main flight screen is the same as you have in position 1. This should now be the same as when you flew it before making the change. As a test, Adjust the trim in flap position 2 & 3 (different numbers) and make sure those values aren't carried over to any other position. Then return the trim values to be the same as position 1, which is your starting position from previous flights.

I hope this is the problem, that somehow the trim settings for the ailerons with each flap position are now different after you set up F Mode and they should be the same. If that solves it, I would leave the aileron switches in F Mode. I do have to adjust occasionally the ailerons when deploying flaps from their fly around position.

Let me know, hope your not ready to shoot me :bomb:, I got enough people after me!

[Aros]

Yes, this is my first HSD and that size jet. I love it, the bigger they are the better they fly and easier to land. I actually use both HRB 5000mah 50C and the RT 5000 70C. Do not see much difference in thrust but that may just be me as I know the RT's can deliver more current.

Good to know, I have never used any batteries in the HSD F-16 other than RT 5500 70Cs...I will look forward to trying out other varieties. I apologize to others that have subscribed to this thread, I don't mean to hijack but I have to ask what your rates/expo/CG is? Even after having and flying two, I am always looking for more info for what others are doing for their setup. Feel free to PM me if you wish.

[Aros]

Todd, first off, in the trim setup, BTW the DX12 is slightly different than my DX9, but lets give it a shot. I do have left and right trim and have to admit I'm not sure what that is, but have both set to Common and Norm. I recently upgrade to the DX9 from a DX6 which did not have that left and right trim, so I'm in the dark (as usual). BTW, just below that is Trims:Normal. There, if you want, you can change to crossed and the left trim switches will adjust aileron and elevator and the right switches will now adjust throttle and rudder. This would be nice to have so you can keep your fingers on the aileron/elevator stick and trim adjust either with the left hand. I'd do it, but I'm too used to it in the default way that I'm sure I'd forget I changed it when the going got tough. Should've do it early in my flying career.

Now to the main issue. Having the aileron change with the flaps is a complete mystery to me, it absolutely should not do that. I does look like you have it set up correctly though, there really isn't that much to it. And any trims you put in the Flap System are in addition to the trim switches and do not get "overwritten". That's why I said leave the adjustments there as a good starting point and then if you need to further refine the trims, you can do it in flight with the trim switches. I would remove the rudder from the trim setup and put it back to normal, not F mode. The rudder trim should not change with your flap settings, so no need to have it and up up doing 9 trims (3 each for each surface, 6 is plenty). As a matter of fact, if you ever do trim the rudder in flight, it should be the same with flaps, so if you leave it set as F mode, your rudder trim with flaps up will not carry over to the other 2 flap settings.

Go back to the main flight screen and make sure that your trim values are the same with the aileron with each flap position. If you originally trimmed the ailerons at say -6, then with flaps up it should still be at -6. However, with flap position 2 and 3, it will now show 0. Make them all the same, based on your original trims which should be shown in position 0. Now go back to the servo travel screen (in Servo Setup or Flap System-both should be the same data) and see if the ailerons are still different with each setting.

Likewise, for the elevator trim, you already trimmed that before and whatever value you have should be shown with flap position 1 (flaps up). Go to position 2 and 3 and make sure the trim value on the main flight screen is the same as you have in position 1. This should now be the same as when you flew it before making the change. As a test, Adjust the trim in flap position 2 & 3 (different numbers) and make sure those values aren't carried over to any other position. Then return the trim values to be the same as position 1, which is your starting position from previous flights.

I hope this is the problem, that somehow the trim settings for the ailerons with each flap position are now different after you set up F Mode and they should be the same. If that solves it, I would leave the aileron switches in F Mode. I do have to adjust occasionally the ailerons when deploying flaps from their fly around position.

Let me know, hope your not ready to shoot me :bomb:, I got enough people after me!

Well as usual you offer a lot of good info to digest! I will go through this more thoroughly tomorrow (I have my iX12 next to me here by my PC) and see what is what. I appreciate all the help! I imagine in the coming months I am going to smack my forehead and wonder what in the world took me so long to adapt Flight Modes! An easy test as well of course is to plug in a battery and do a ground test to see what - if anything - the control surfaces do when I activate the Flight Modes. Again, thanks Hugh!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Well as usual you offer a lot of good info to digest! I will go through this more thoroughly tomorrow (I have my iX12 next to me here by my PC) and see what is what. I appreciate all the help! I imagine in the coming months I am going to smack my forehead and wonder what in the world took me so long to adapt Flight Modes! An easy test as well of course is to plug in a battery and do a ground test to see what - if anything - the control surfaces do when I activate the Flight Modes. Again, thanks Hugh!

I assume you have Aircraft Type Wing: 1 Ail 1 Flap. If my thoughts don't solve it from above, I suggest you first change the trim setup so just the elevator is on F mode and then go and see what the aileron servo travel does when you change flap settings. Of course, I highly recommend that you write down exactly the % numbers you put in the Flap System and Elevator compensation and also write down the exact trim or any subtrim on all surfaces so you can at least get it back to where your last flight was if need be. If the ailerons still move, remove F mode (change back to inhibit) and change trim setup back to everything normal, then see how the aileron servos travel as you change flaps.

You can always open a New Model, set it for flaperons, set flaps at basic numbers like 100%/0/-100% and elevator % to 0/-5/-10. Make sure all trim switches are zero'd out on the main flight screen, the go a set F Mode to switch D, trim setups for elevator/aileron /rudder to F mode, and see what the servo travels are with that.

[Aros]

Roger that, thanks again Hugh!

[gooniac33]

gooniac33 Are you talking about favoring the RT 6S 35C 5800's over the 6S 70C 5500's? Curious because I love my RT 70C 5500's but if you are telling me the 35C 5800's are superior, I need to know that and you certainly have my attention! Especially since I am considering buying my 3rd HSD 105mm F-16 which has only ever been flown on the 5500/70Cs...I am always looking to maximize thrust/weight in that jet and the new version has a superior EDF unit which is the main reason why I am considering it, but the batteries are part of that equation as well so if there is a more powerful performance pack out there I am all ears!

:pop

Its all up to you of course... And not everyone looks at things the same way that I do. But here is my reasoning.. If you are flying a 70c 5500 and it is pulling more amps than the 35c 5800, while you may get an initial bump in power with the higher C version, the lighter weight and little bit of extra capacity will work out better in the long run. Higher C packs tend to really drop off once they get to the end of their charge as well. The 35c 5800 was always super consistent and would always warn me when it was time to come in if I went a little too far. The weight of the lighter packs is also something to really take into consideration when you look at where you fly. I used the 5800s in my FMS Equipped 80mm Mig-21 and also my FW 70mm F-16 with upgraded 14 blade fan. The mig could fly for 5 mins easy even when flown really hard. The F-16 would get almost 8-9 mins of laid back flying but when flown really hard I would still get close to 6 mins flight times with the pack only being slightly warm. Now I did use them in my high draw 90mm F-15 a couple times and they did fine as well! That plane was pulling 150amps peak. So its just up to you. Roaring Top makes awesome packs and if anything that 35c 6250 is really worth looking into since its pretty light for its capacity. Also look at the continuous discharge rate of 219amps instead of the C rating. Also actually load test the batteries and see how consistent the Amp drawings are on with the 35c packs. More consistent is better for getting longer flight time and lighter weight is better for good thrust to weight....

[Aros]

Great info gooniac33 ! Certainly food for thought and I definitely will explore multiple packs and see what I think. Thanks!

[gooniac33]

Great info gooniac33 ! Certainly food for thought and I definitely will explore multiple packs and see what I think. Thanks!

Do whatever works for you and then share what you come up with! Looking forward to hearing your findings!

[Aros]

Will do gooniac33 !

Had two nice flights today... Hugh Wiedman , I owe you gratitude for showing me the Flight Mode Way. Here's a video of me trying it out for the first time. The first flight is me tinkering, adjusting trims and settling in for the approach and it was fantastic. LOVED the ability to adjust the trims in the air, knowing the F Modes would remember the settings. Worked like a charm! Second flight was just enjoying flying...Thanks buddy for the nudge!

[Hugh Wiedman]

Will do gooniac33 !

Had two nice flights today... Hugh Wiedman , I owe you gratitude for showing me the Flight Mode Way. Here's a video of me trying it out for the first time. The first flight is me tinkering, adjusting trims and settling in for the approach and it was fantastic. LOVED the ability to adjust the trims in the air, knowing the F Modes would remember the settings. Worked like a charm! Second flight was just enjoying flying...Thanks buddy for the nudge!

I'm so so glad it worked out for you, what did you find out was causing it to not work correctly at first? I was feeling that I sent you on a "wild goose chase" and have been wracking my pea sized brain trying to figure out why it wasn't working for you, but now that you got it, bet you'll use it with every plane that has flaps. I know it is a little more work setting it up on the first flight, but after that it takes a lot of the "landing pucker factor" out, something we all need to reduce. Unfortunately, now my only excuse for my crappy landings is my own shortcomings at the sticks :sleeping: and the far to common "brain freeze". :cold_face:

[Aros]

I'm so so glad it worked out for you, what did you find out was causing it to not work correctly at first? I was feeling that I sent you on a "wild goose chase" and have been wracking my pea sized brain trying to figure out why it wasn't working for you, but now that you got it, bet you'll use it with every plane that has flaps. I know it is a little more work setting it up on the first flight, but after that it takes a lot of the "landing pucker factor" out, something we all need to reduce. Unfortunately, now my only excuse for my crappy landings is my own shortcomings at the sticks :sleeping: and the far to common "brain freeze". :cold_face:

Yeah even F Modes can't save me from my own Dumb Thumbs from time-to-time but at least it's a point in the right direction!

So I am really not sure what the issue was. When I fired her up and tested on the ground, I noticed the aileron trim would reset to 0 (it's -24 without F Modes due to the camera on the port wingtip) in both flaperon F Mode settings. So all I had to do was set it to -24 for each F mode and it was fine. Thanks for nudging me...I've been meaning to look into Flight Modes for years but was just too lazy about it. I love it!