Official FMS 1500mm P-47D Razorback Thread

[davegee]

Man, that is looking great. Bob really makes the cockpit stand out. Going to be outstanding!
Best Regards, Rex

Thanks, Rex. Got the new continuous motion servo yesterday and will be experimenting with it and my printed canopy drive system to see if I can get it to work for me. As a backup, I'll be talking to the Canadian folks with their very professional linear servo that might just work for this, too. We'll see.

I don't remember if I told this story or not, but I read that when they first tried the powered canopies on the -25RE models, the windscreens were knocked clean off the airplane when they went to close the canopy! They eventually got it worked out!

Cheers

davegee

[Elbee]

davegee

Length of linear travel desired = 2.0”

Rotation of conventional servo in degrees = 120^o-160^o

Minimum radius of 360^o gear = 1.9”

Why?

Servo travel (example) = 120^o or 1/3 of 360^o

So through 120^o a round gear OD should measure 2” (6”=360^o)

For simplicity, cut a half circle or 180^o of the 6” gear in design

Circumference is p(r²) /2 where r=1.9”

Diameter = C/π = 6 / π = 6 / 3.14 = 1.90+ in

Design the rack longer by a a couple of teeth either way

Tooth size is whatever you decide, I choose 8 teeth per inch as I recall

There are gear STLs out there, I designed my own to see if I could

Yes, you could buy a linear servo with 2”+ travel, most are $70-$99 +/-

50mm travel = 2”+/- with various speeds

In any case, your canopy mounting/movement mechanism is the critical component

Best, LB

[davegee]

davegee

Length of linear travel desired = 2.0”

Rotation of conventional servo in degrees = 120^o-160^o

Minimum radius of 360^o gear = 1.9”

Why?

Servo travel (example) = 120^o or 1/3 of 360^o

So through 120^o a round gear OD should measure 2” (6”=360^o)

For simplicity, cut a half circle or 180^o of the 6” gear in design

Circumference is p(r²) /2 where r=1.9”

Diameter = C/π = 6 / π = 6 / 3.14 = 1.90+ in

Design the rack longer by a a couple of teeth either way

Tooth size is whatever you decide, I choose 8 teeth per inch as I recall

There are gear STLs out there, I designed my own to see if I could

Yes, you could buy a linear servo with 2”+ travel, most are $70-$99 +/-

50mm travel = 2”+/- with various speeds

In any case, your canopy mounting/movement mechanism is the critical component

Best, LB

Thanks, Elbee! I got a design pretty similar to yours on Thingiverse. It uses a continuous movement servo, and I just tried it with my servo tester. I think it shows promise to hook it into my receiver I'll be using on a channel that uses a rotary knob or reversible switch to get it to work. I'm still working out the required linear distance for travel open and closed, but I think the 2 inch travel estimate is accurate.

I just had a phone conversation with Actuonix out of Canada. They make professional linear servos for all sorts of uses, and some are small enough to be used on model airplanes, like canopies, for instance. I ordered one small unit to play with. It uses a moveable square metal tube that you can adjust the travel right on your radio, I guess other modelers use these too. I thought it would be worth it to give this a try, Might be workable for other model projects, too, someday. We'll see where it goes.

Thanks for your excellent piece addressing these units. I think I'll eventually find something that will work.

Cheers

davegee

[Elbee]

Precisely, I like their L12-Rs and will be using those on my F-14 project. Good choice.

[davegee]

Super! I just became aware of this company recently when researching linear servos online, which I don't know much about, but am learning. I think my biggest concern is that I have enough space in this relatively small airplane to mount the L12-R. I have the removable hatch/cockpit, and hope to mount the L12 behind the back wall where the pilot sits. I'll just have to play with it and figure a way to make it work. If done correctly, it looks like it would be a very smooth stroke pushing the canopy open and closed with the ability to set end points and rate of speed. Ian at Actuonix also told me that if the motor hits a stop, it won't get burned out or have a problem like that. When you reverse the switch, it simply returns back to where you command it.

They are working on shipping it to me now, so I'll be very happy when it shows up to go to work on it!

Cheers

davegee

[Elbee]

davegee

I had thought to change out my rack and pinion for one of these, but all is working great so if isn't broken, don't.....

Your research pays off with this company and don't forget to sign up for their you_tube channel, great information.

A little pricey, but oh so convenient and a lot of firepower in a small package.

How's shipping rates?

Best, LB

[f4u ausie]

U guys r amazing .. my mind boggles at your creativity. Awesome

[davegee]

davegee

I had thought to change out my rack and pinion for one of these, but all is working great so if isn't broken, don't.....

Your research pays off with this company and don't forget to sign up for their you_tube channel, great information.

A little pricey, but oh so convenient and a lot of firepower in a small package.

How's shipping rates?

Best, LB

I have been talking with Ian the past couple of weeks by email, and today by phone. It sounds to me like he is the head man, his son Mike does the informational videos on their products. There are complications shipping "internationally" although they are almost a stone's throw from Washington state in Canada but there is a high tariff on Canadian goods to the USA at the moment. Even so, Ian was able to negotiate the total out the door cost, including shipping via FedEx for about $90, which was fine with me. He is a big fan of RC and especially P-47s which I think piqued his interest when he found out what I wanted the servo for. We had a good laugh over things. I like the concept of their linear servos and could see them in future model projects. It seems to be very well designed and built. And the ones made for RC models are just icing on the cake!

I'll look into the you tube channel for information.

Cheers

Dave

[davegee]

Today I installed the E Flite bomb/drop tank in my oldest FMS 1.5M P-47D razorback, "I Wanted Wings." I am going to try and test the dropping of a foam drop tank from the belly location on the airplane. It works flawlessly for ground tests this afternoon, and I plan on installing similar units on my other P-47s. I already have installed and ground tested this unit in my new Hairless Joe that I am working on now. I have two other P-47s that I'll be installing the unit in soon.

I am impressed with this E Flite unit, seems to work great (on the ground.) If I fly tomorrow, or whenever I get to test it, that will be the "acid test" as to how it works. Danger Dan and I are also working on a printed STL design for a larger "flat" 150 gallon drop tank that is similar to another version they used in WWII. Once we have that design completed, I'll print it up and test fly it on these airplanes.

Below is an old tank being used as a test tank on this airplane, hopefully tomorrow. This is a OEM part that came with the FMS kit. It represents one of the 108 gallon "paper" tanks that saw extensive use during the war in Europe, especially for aircraft flying out of English bases, where these tanks were manufactured in WWII.

Update: Tried to fly this morning (Thursday), too windy crosswind. Will try again tomorrow. *sigh*

Cheers

Davegee

[davegee]

I had a successful drop tank release test on the EFlite mechanism yesterday. Dropped off just as I expected it would, began an end over end tumble and landed on the runway. I wasn't planning on that, but it is so light, that it wasn't damaged at all, not even a dent or chip.

Afterwards, I coated all the drop tanks I plan on using for the time being with Minwax PolyAcrylic with a brush. That seemed to harden them up some to avoid damage if they fall on a hard surface again, instead of the soft dirt and sage-filled surroundings.

I have now installed the E Flite mechanism on all three of my FMS P-47s and the new one, Hairless Joe, will use the drop tank release for some inflight pics later this spring or summer when it is done.

Here's a couple pics of the mechanism. For this plane, it is almost a "drop in" add-on, just had to remove the existing OEM drop tank retainers and drill a hole to feed the wire into the fuselage floor and receiver. I use the "I" button on my DX18 for easy finding without looking down at the transmitter while flying. I did have to clear out the foam just a little bit on the side to allow the spring-loaded release pin to be pulled back to attach the tanks.

Very happy with this after the first try, and will test it more next week with some other P-47s with the new mechanism. I'm hoping Danger Dan and I can jointly come up with the printed 150 gallon steel tank that was also used a bunch during this time period, especially on P-47s. it would fit using the same attachment as this foam "paper" tank, also used extensively back then.

Cheers

davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Looking great and glad to hear bomb drops correctly. Will add this to Luckey.
Gentleman Trip to Toledo was great, The competition was great this year and we had a fantastic time.

As you can see Luckey did a good job but we didn't place in the show. A 1/4 scale L-5 military liaison model won WW-2 category. Bob Bensen, a very capable scale modeler presented a miniature version of the real model and deserved the win. Most of the models were 1/4 sc. or larger and although we held our own it's hard to beat a larger well detailed model. I had many people tell me they couldn't believe it was a foam model and thought it looked like the original. Many comments on the full cockpit and pilot also. Thanks GUYS.

We had a great time but wore ourselves out walking around. I have more pictures to post of the show but just returned home and need to relax awhile.
Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
Looking great and glad to hear bomb drops correctly. Will add this to Luckey.
Gentleman Trip to Toledo was great, The competition was great this year and we had a fantastic time.

As you can see Luckey did a good job but we didn't place in the show. A 1/4 scale L-5 military liaison model won WW-2 category. Bob Bensen, a very capable scale modeler presented a miniature version of the real model and deserved the win. Most of the models were 1/4 sc. or larger and although we held our own it's hard to beat a larger well detailed model. I had many people tell me they couldn't believe it was a foam model and thought it looked like the original. Many comments on the full cockpit and pilot also. Thanks GUYS.

We had a great time but wore ourselves out walking around. I have more pictures to post of the show but just returned home and need to relax awhile.
Best Regards, Rex

Hi Rex: Lucky looks Great!!! I like your presentation set up and the way it all goes together in a professional looking setting. I'm glad you did this model, and I think even if it didn't place with the judges, The airplane looks Awesome! Glad you cut open the canopy for closer look at the cockpit.

I agree that larger models seem to score higher than the smaller ones. I had that same issue at Top Gun in Florida. I was competing with a 1/5 scale model (Fire Ball) but even back then there were guys flying much larger 1/4 scale or larger planes, and it was just hard to compete with them. One guy had a beautiful turbine A-10, and then they opened the runway to full size aircraft for a short while (I think we were flying off an adjacent taxiway). Anyway, a Real A-10 landed, taxied in and parked next to the model A-10. They were painted identically. Of course, he won! Hard to impossible competing with that!!

Glad you're having a great time. I encourage you to continue entering the Toledo show. Maybe next year your F-4 or something else will be ready to show.

Have a safe trip home. Glad you guys are having a great time!

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Not discouraged at all. A foam HSD T-33 jet modified into a P-80 won the Jet category. William Jackson from Ohio was the owner and it set next to mine. I will include pictures later. Bill said he cut the fuselage in three places to get it in the correct scale and spent hours modifying the scale features. It was beautiful and you could not tell it was foam. We talked for hours on our efforts to compete with these foam models against traditional models. His model beat out a large CARF MiG 15 and I believe it was because of his attention to his details and his craftsmanship. So, given craftsmanship and details I believe a foam/ smaller model can still win over a larger less detailed model. This year the 1/4 sc L-5 was very well detailed and un- beatable in the WW-2 category.
Best Regards, Rex

[f4u ausie]

Congrats Rex on ur fuuun weekend.. awesome job. It does look like a mini little real one.. on the display

[davegee]

Davegee,
Not discouraged at all. A foam HSD T-33 jet modified into a P-80 won the Jet category. William Jackson from Ohio was the owner and it set next to mine. I will include pictures later. Bill said he cut the fuselage in three places to get it in the correct scale and spent hours modifying the scale features. It was beautiful and you could not tell it was foam. We talked for hours on our efforts to compete with these foam models against traditional models. His model beat out a large CARF MiG 15 and I believe it was because of his attention to his details and his craftsmanship. So, given craftsmanship and details I believe a foam/ smaller model can still win over a larger less detailed model. This year the 1/4 sc L-5 was very well detailed and un- beatable in the WW-2 category.
Best Regards, Rex

I think I've seen videos of that P-80 conversion. It's probably the same guy and he's done lots of other mods on other foam airplanes, too, with equal skill. As you say, the prizes are nice, but just being with and talking to other modelers who have the same passion as we do to modeling, is worth the trip in and of itself.

If you have an extra channel on your Lucky, if you decide to put in the bomb/drop tank E Flite mount, it's worth doing, IMHO. It is easy to install after you have removed the OEM parts on the fuselage and tank itself, cleared out the foam a bit and drill or punch a hole through the remaining foam to run the servo lead into the fuse where your receiver is, and you're practically done. I think the unit goes for about $25 and it is Well worth it, to me. I'm really looking forward to the finished STL that Dan is working on to have a truly unique add-on for an operable drop tank, especially on a foamie.

Cheers

Davegee

[jetfool]

Davegee,
Bill has flown his jet at the Kentucky Jet event and I'm sure you have seen pictures of it.
Yes, for me It is just meeting and talking with like-minded people for 2 days.
One observation I made was the lack of a younger crowd in attendance. Talking with Scale suppliers Robart, BUSA, VVrcs and others they are not seeing the people buying and building to keep the industry going. Even the 3D suppliers aren't seeing their sales grow. We may be the last generation that enjoys this hobby and has suppliers around.
Best Regards, Rex

[davegee]

Davegee,
Bill has flown his jet at the Kentucky Jet event and I'm sure you have seen pictures of it.
Yes, for me It is just meeting and talking with like-minded people for 2 days.
One observation I made was the lack of a younger crowd in attendance. Talking with Scale suppliers Robart, BUSA, VVrcs and others they are not seeing the people buying and building to keep the industry going. Even the 3D suppliers aren't seeing their sales grow. We may be the last generation that enjoys this hobby and has suppliers around.
Best Regards, Rex

Yeah, I'm disappointed but somehow not surprised by your observations that young people are not following us into the hobby, or any hobby or interest that we have carried with us all our lives. I've been acutely aware of this working with museums over the past 50 years. It's so important to bring new, young, and fresh minds into things like our hobbies, but also with a sense of wonderment and history of what came before them. I'm always reminded of the famous words from Sir Isaac Newton " If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." I hope our young people will take challenges from previous generations and do wonderful new things, going forward.

[Elbee]

jetfool

There is a profound sadness in that truth, Rex.

I believe we have lost the imagination of a generation in the last 10+ years.

So many distractions, it's difficult to focus on anything that requires time, learning, and patience.

The shift to 'instant gratification & self absorption' as a lifestyle...Why create it when I can just buy it?

I will carry the torch as long as I am able.

Frankly, I am more optimistic these days, but that's just me.

Best, LB

[jetfool]

I agree with both of you. We do have 4 HS kids (3 boys 1 girl) in our club that fly regularly and are doing better than most of us old guys. They want to go into aviation. The girl is going to the AF Academy and wants to be a fighter pilot. Her uncle is a general that is/was a fighter pilot so it's in her genes. We help these young people as much as we can. So there are ones out there.
Best Regards, Rex

[F106DeltaDart]

Yeah, I'm disappointed but somehow not surprised by your observations that young people are not following us into the hobby, or any hobby or interest that we have carried with us all our lives. I've been acutely aware of this working with museums over the past 50 years. It's so important to bring new, young, and fresh minds into things like our hobbies, but also with a sense of wonderment and history of what came before them. I'm always reminded of the famous words from Sir Isaac Newton " If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." I hope our young people will take challenges from previous generations and do wonderful new things, going forward.

I’ve said this before, but I think there are a lot of factors here. The openness (or lack of) in some clubs doesn’t do them any favors. They are usually the same clubs where guys grumble that no one new is joining the hobby, than they give the death stare the second someone under 50 walks through the gate. Especially if they aren’t carrying the “preferred aircraft”. I know some clubs are fantastic and not like this at all, but I’ve seen it happen a lot throughout the country.

I remember a friend and I bringing 2 or 3 guests to a local field field here, and the second we got out of the car we were all met with “I want to see everyone’s AMA”. Even after showing that and explaining that 2 flyers were guests, they were regarded with suspicion. We ended up going across the street and flying in an empty park instead. Not exactly a welcoming event.

I’ve been poorly received because I showed up to a club with a heli, or a foam electric plane. I’ve seen people interested in joining up, or getting their kids into the hobby being lectured about how their Flite Test foamboard plane, that was this kids pride and joy, wasn’t a “real airplane”. Surprise, surprise, even after me talking to them and assuring that this guy was just a vocal minority, and helping them, I never saw them again.

Sorry, I got. A bit off the rails, but this is something that really bugs me. Some of what has been said here is valid. There are other hobbies/distractions that are easier and cheaper now. But if you want kids and younger membership to show up, you have to provide a welcoming environment. And it only takes one bad apple to screw that up.

Also, great photos Rex, and a beautiful model!

[jetfool]

Guys here are some more pictures from the Toledo show




My Buddys Jenny a Joy Products, 66" ws. Kit bought in 1967.