Originally posted by Rubicon99
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Originally posted by Hellcat 7 View Post
Thanks for the advice. Are these just as good as the 390 Upgrade Motor for Heng Long Tanks from Admiral - ADM6000-011 or the one that Toucan sells? Thanks again
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
For red motors I would go with the Admiral motors first. But Toucan is a good second choice. Beyond those two personally I like the Taigen/Torro Black 390 motors a little more for their slightly higher peak rmps yet slightly lower overall torque.
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My question is changing from "Red or Blue Motors" to "Can you find a 380 motor driving a HL as well as the 390 motor?', Despite my complaint about the quirks of the Heng Xin gearbox, I ended up with it on all four of my operational Heng Long tanks. Its basic design includes tight tolerance on all moving parts. The assembly is good that results in low noise and little vibration. The almost fully enclosed case allows liberal use of grease on the gears. These tanks are German Leopard 2A6, US M26 Pershing, Russian T-34/85 and US M4A3 Sherman. The Sherman is a new acquisition that I just got last month.
At first, I put a pair of Tamiya 380 that I got on e-bay on the Sherman. They turned out to be defective and stops after a few seconds run. I changed them to the Mabuchi RS380PH/3270 that I mentioned earlier. It runs fine continuously, but too slow. I pair the 3270 motors with a 3S Li-po battery (11.1 volts) for more normal speed. Even though the HL RC motherboard is rated for 12 volts, I don't feel comfortable with using 3S battery extensively.
For the Sherman metal upgrade, I got the Mato metal T74 track with duckbills. It turns out to be the heaviest of my metal tracks. The cast and paint look beautiful and it does not break like my old Mato Pershing track.
The T34 with 390 motors is so much more fun to drive outdoor in open space. I found the normal 380 Pershing speed no longer good enough. Thus, the question:
Can you find a 380 motor driving a HL as well as the 390 motor?
Ijust ordered 2 pairs of Mabuchi RK380SH/4528 which has 23-25000 rpm at 8 volts. I will test if they can drive the heavy track without overheating. The backup plan is to get a good pair of Tamiya 380
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Originally posted by keilau View PostMy question is changing from "Red or Blue Motors" to "Can you find a 380 motor driving a HL as well as the 390 motor?', Despite my complaint about the quirks of the Heng Xin gearbox, I ended up with it on all four of my operational Heng Long tanks. Its basic design includes tight tolerance on all moving parts. The assembly is good that results in low noise and little vibration. The almost fully enclosed case allows liberal use of grease on the gears. These tanks are German Leopard 2A6, US M26 Pershing, Russian T-34/85 and US M4A3 Sherman. The Sherman is a new acquisition that I just got last month.
At first, I put a pair of Tamiya 380 that I got on e-bay on the Sherman. They turned out to be defective and stops after a few seconds run. I changed them to the Mabuchi RS380PH/3270 that I mentioned earlier. It runs fine continuously, but too slow. I pair the 3270 motors with a 3S Li-po battery (11.1 volts) for more normal speed. Even though the HL RC motherboard is rated for 12 volts, I don't feel comfortable with using 3S battery extensively.
For the Sherman metal upgrade, I got the Mato metal T74 track with duckbills. It turns out to be the heaviest of my metal tracks. The cast and paint look beautiful and it does not break like my old Mato Pershing track.
The T34 with 390 motors is so much more fun to drive outdoor in open space. I found the normal 380 Pershing speed no longer good enough. Thus, the question:
Can you find a 380 motor driving a HL as well as the 390 motor?
Ijust ordered 2 pairs of Mabuchi RK380SH/4528 which has 23-25000 rpm at 8 volts. I will test if they can drive the heavy track without overheating. The backup plan is to get a good pair of Tamiya 380
You should also take a look at Taigen black 380 motors. These tend to run at slighter higher peak RPMs and have more torque then both HL stock, HL blue or Tamiyas.
Also you can safely use 3 cell Lipo batteries in the 6.0-7.0 systems with no worries IF you run the system on the “low power” setting which = 70% maximum voltage (~12.6v X 70% = ~8.9v). Lots of people do this without issues.
Or you can dump the Lipos and run a 9.6v (peak 10-10.6v) NiMh 4000 hump pack battery on the “high power” setting, but to do so you will need to slightly modify your battery box. The 9.6v option is the best all around for squeezing the most out of 380 motors and tends to equal the performance of 390 motors being run on 7.2v, but does not push the MFU anywhere close to it maximum voltage rating.
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
If speed is what you are chasing vs scale to life performance then just run the 390 in the Pershing. They are tight a fit with HL and Taigen 3:1 gearboxes but with a little work you can get them in. Although you are running other gearboxes and they may not be as forgiving with fitment. I ran 390s in my HL Pershings for many years until I dumped them for Tamiya Pershings.
Originally posted by Rubicon99 View PostYou should also take a look at Taigen black 380 motors. These tend to run at slighter higher peak RPMs and have more torque then both HL stock, HL blue or Tamiyas.
Originally posted by Rubicon99 View PostAlso you can safely use 3 cell Lipo batteries in the 6.0-7.0 systems with no worries IF you run the system on the “low power” setting which = 70% maximum voltage (~12.6v X 70% = ~8.9v). Lots of people do this without issues.
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Originally posted by keilau View PostThe WW2/Korean War era tanks were underpowered by modern tank standard. The Pershing can go 30 mph on paved road vs. 5.25 mph off road. Even with the 390 motor, the HL Pershing is a few mph less than 30 mph in scale speed. I will not call this speed chasing, it is not even life scale speed. I have tried the 390 with HL steel gearbox, but I cannot find the HL ball bearing version in US and gave up. The sleeve bearing have too much noise and vibration.
Try that a long time ago. Taigen will not sell the 380 alone.
I do not know how to set the HL motherboard on the “low power” setting. Your help is much appreciated.
For “low power” simply press the “G” button down and hold while moving the right control stick down. To place it back into “high power” repeat but instead move the right stick up. This procedure is also in the manual along with a number of other settings options for the 6.0-7.0 systems. There is a possibility you are running in “low power” now and why you feel the tanks are a bit slow.
Are the gearboxes you are running “3:1” or “4:1l and if so do you know the actual ratio such as 33:1 or 39:1 for “3:1 and 59:1 for the “4:1”?
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
Yes Taigen does sell their 380 motors separate. Go to IMEX.com under tank parts IMEX is the US importer for Taigen tanks.
Originally posted by Rubicon99 View PostFor “low power” simply press the “G” button down and hold while moving the right control stick down. To place it back into “high power” repeat but instead move the right stick up. This procedure is also in the manual along with a number of other settings options for the 6.0-7.0 systems. There is a possibility you are running in “low power” now and why you feel the tanks are a bit slow.
Are the gearboxes you are running “3:1” or “4:1l and if so do you know the actual ratio such as 33:1 or 39:1 for “3:1 and 59:1 for the “4:1”?
The Mabuchi380/3270 is one of the highest torque 380. I may settle for it for the Sherman with 3S battery.
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Originally posted by keilau View PostThe imex.com is not working. I have been using https://www.taigentanks.com/ instead. When I couldn't find the 380 on their parts page, I called and was told that they only sell 390 separately. The 380 is sold with gearbox only. It was in 2020 or 2021
The Heng Xin gearbox has a 39:1 ratio. I am not running in low power mode. I measured the Pershing track speed in rpm on my home dynamo (a 2x4 with a handheld tachometer). With 2S battery (home built Li-Ion that stays at 8 volts during most of the discharge range), I measure 75 rpm for 390, 49 rpm for Tamiya380 and 39 rpm for Mabuchi380/3270. The Mabuchi380/3270 is a 12 volts motor that runs slower than typical 7.4v 380. With 3S Li-Po at 11.2v, the 3270 track speed is a good 62 rpm.
The Mabuchi380/3270 is one of the highest torque 380. I may settle for it for the Sherman with 3S battery.
39:1 gear ratio is a little more difficult to get speed from then the 33:1 ratios. They turn slightly better, but top end is never as good. When I am building a modern tank like an Abrams or Leopard for max speed (45 mph scale) I swap HL steel 33:1 gears into the HL “red” gearboxes that have bearing or more simply just add flange bearings to the stock gearboxes.
Just keep trying combinations, you will find what works for you. Half the fun is tweaking thing until you find the right formula.
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
If you can’t get your hands on Taigen/Torro 380s have you tried Traxxas and Dynamite 380 motors. These have options for higher and lower “turn” counts. You will have to add a pinion gear to them but that is easy.
39:1 gear ratio is a little more difficult to get speed from then the 33:1 ratios. They turn slightly better, but top end is never as good. When I am building a modern tank like an Abrams or Leopard for max speed (45 mph scale) I swap HL steel 33:1 gears into the HL “red” gearboxes that have bearing or more simply just add flange bearings to the stock gearboxes.
Just keep trying combinations, you will find what works for you. Half the fun is tweaking thing until you find the right formula.
When I first started out on metal upgrade, Pershing is my first tank to try. I spent a few days to fit the Heng Xin with 390 but fail. I may try again now. The Sherman is another story. It is physically impossible to fit the 390, period. The Heng Xin gearbox is a drop in.
I remember the big disappointment that my HL Tiger will not move when I put it on the grass lawn. It was an indoor only tank. Now, I have several tanks that run well in my backyard.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
Traxxas and Dynamitem will never disclose the spec of their motors, not even the basic such as input voltage and rpm. They are for repair of their own brand only, model for model and no substitute. I have tested a good number of 390, they work well on HL as long as the rpm is in the lower half of the 20000 rpm with 2S lithium battery.
When I first started out on metal upgrade, Pershing is my first tank to try. I spent a few days to fit the Heng Xin with 390 but fail. I may try again now. The Sherman is another story. It is physically impossible to fit the 390, period. The Heng Xin gearbox is a drop in.
I remember the big disappointment that my HL Tiger will not move when I put it on the grass lawn. It was an indoor only tank. Now, I have several tanks that run well in my backyard.
The Sherman absolutely do not fit 390 motors although you can squeeze in the HL dual drive gearbox that run 540 motors in a Sherman. I have seen this done a few times but have no reason to do it myself. Stupidly fast Sherman’s to the point of being uncontrollable.
The HL and Taigen/Torro Sherman with just blue or black 380 motors running at 8.4v even with all metal tracks are faster in scale then real world Sherman’s could ever achieve and have enough torque to handle most terrain types without a struggle. I have a few recent videos on my Instagram @ fsttanks showing this.
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Back when henglong tanks came with 280 motors in the shermans, yes 280s, I put tamiya motors into all my henglong and taigen shermans. The motors free rolled much better and on 7.2 volts they are faster than a real sherman. The flat out max speed of an M4a3 sherman is 21 miles per hour and that is on a paved road. Off road it was half that on a good flat surface.
I have made shermans go 30 plus miles per hour for fun and omg are they fast and bouncing all over. The Chile M50/60 HVMS former IDF turbo diesel shermans can go 45 mph. I was trying to achive that and its so fast they are just uncontrollable except for just charging across the Atacama desert. Maneuvering is nill at that speed but they have it to get across an open battlefield fast.
I personally love how all my taigen shermans perform with tamiya motors in them. They are excellent runners and battlers and free roll magnificently. I have one henglong sherman and its got the tamiya motors as well.
Good luck with your endevoursRC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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I guess I prefer my tanks to run on the slower side of things. At that last battle day I got a little over zealous with the speed on my SU-152. I was zipping along and forgot that my SU doesn't handle ditches very well as the barrel is pretty close to the ground. I barrel stabbed it into the ground...HARD. It hit so hard that it broke both vertical pivot points holding the barrel in place, but the horizontal pivot structure survived. The barrel didn't break as it is one of those heavy all metal KWK ML-20S barrels with metal brake from https://MK-Modellbau.de. If I had used the 3D printed barrel with the kit it more than likely would've just killed the barrel and not the mount.
Speed kills... ;)
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View Post
390s are a tight fit in the Pershing even with the shock HL gearboxes. Not surprising you are having trouble fitting the 390 in combination with your Xin boxes.
The Sherman absolutely do not fit 390 motors although you can squeeze in the HL dual drive gearbox that run 540 motors in a Sherman. I have seen this done a few times but have no reason to do it myself. Stupidly fast Sherman’s to the point of being uncontrollable.
The HL and Taigen/Torro Sherman with just blue or black 380 motors running at 8.4v even with all metal tracks are faster in scale then real world Sherman’s could ever achieve and have enough torque to handle most terrain types without a struggle. I have a few recent videos on my Instagram @ fsttanks showing this.
I took the Heng Xin with Tamiya380 off the Pershing tonight. It is more difficult than I expect. It doesn't make sense to try the Heng Xin/390 on the Pershing.
The Mato T74 with duckbills track is heavier than anything else I use. But the 380 seems to handle it without difficulty. The Sherman will be slower than the T34 with 390, and both will have about the right top scale speed on road.
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Originally posted by tank_me View PostI guess I prefer my tanks to run on the slower side of things. At that last battle day I got a little over zealous with the speed on my SU-152. I was zipping along and forgot that my SU doesn't handle ditches very well as the barrel is pretty close to the ground. I barrel stabbed it into the ground...HARD. It hit so hard that it broke both vertical pivot points holding the barrel in place, but the horizontal pivot structure survived. The barrel didn't break as it is one of those heavy all metal KWK ML-20S barrels with metal brake from https://MK-Modellbau.de. If I had used the 3D printed barrel with the kit it more than likely would've just killed the barrel and not the mount.
Speed kills... ;)
With typical 39:1 gearbox, most 1:16 class RC tank stays below 30 mph scale speed, including German Leopard, Abrams and other modern tanks.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
I just ordered a Taigen V2 gearbox. I will fit it with a pair of spare red 390 I have before puting it on the Pershing which will run at about the top scale speed on highway. The Taigen black 380 will go to the Sherman which will give it the top scale speed with the 2S Li-Ion pack.
I took the Heng Xin with Tamiya380 off the Pershing tonight. It is more difficult than I expect. It doesn't make sense to try the Heng Xin/390 on the Pershing.
The Mato T74 with duckbills track is heavier than anything else I use. But the 380 seems to handle it without difficulty. The Sherman will be slower than the T34 with 390, and both will have about the right top scale speed on road.
T74 Duckbill tracks on HL Sherman’s.
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Originally posted by keilau View Post
Interesting battle day story. No, speed does not kill, but poor tank driver does. Haha.
With typical 39:1 gearbox, most 1:16 class RC tank stays below 30 mph scale speed, including German Leopard, Abrams and other modern tanks.
If you stay with the 33:1 steel HL transmission, 390 motors and the above mentioned additions you can achieve top end road speed much easier and at lower votage.
I would be interested in knowing what mathematical formula you are using to determine scale speed? Scale x real world gps tracked speed? Or time & distance x scale? Or some other formula?
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Originally posted by Rubicon99 View PostI would be interested in knowing what mathematical formula you are using to determine scale speed? Scale x real world gps tracked speed? Or time & distance x scale? Or some other formula?
I get the tank model speed in inches/min by multiplying the track rpm with the track length. Then the model speed is multiplied by tank scale of 16 and unit converted to mph. It is very simple, straight forward arithematic. It does not take the road friction into consideration and may be on the optimistic side in value.
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Somehow I think that is giving you a very low scale speed calculation.
the proper way is time and distance measuring, I have a chart published by the AAF Danville club that gives scale speed based on a 25 foot distance time.
a stock Tamiya Sherman on 7.2 is near accurate speed and it feel so slow. My taigen Sherman’s with Tamiya motors on 7.2 are in the high 20s and they look fast while driving,
Forgive me, but have you actually driven your tanks in the dirt with these various tranny motor combinations? Sherman’s going faster than 30 scale mph are just crazy fast and bounce all over the place.RC tank parts and accessories I make
www.RichardSJohnson.net/id28.html
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Originally posted by RichJohnson View PostSomehow I think that is giving you a very low scale speed calculation.
the proper way is time and distance measuring, I have a chart published by the AAF Danville club that gives scale speed based on a 25 foot distance time.
a stock Tamiya Sherman on 7.2 is near accurate speed and it feel so slow. My taigen Sherman’s with Tamiya motors on 7.2 are in the high 20s and they look fast while driving,
Forgive me, but have you actually driven your tanks in the dirt with these various tranny motor combinations? Sherman’s going faster than 30 scale mph are just crazy fast and bounce all over the place.
I am a backyard RC tank driver which means grass lawn mostly. I have not find a RC tank club in the Chicago yet.
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