Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

:point_up:

Its old news that if the ratio of radial component to the main poles isn't correct in the Halbach the torque ripple increases versus being minimized a 12N10P/14P hybrid wind is so much simpler...

[Clugh]

Adam has a direct drive contra Halbach with PARALLEL slots for F3A but it didn't win the worlds. :stuck_out_tongue: A single pyro 600 with a traditional wind with a contra planetary gearbox did so already you'd be going backwards. The Halbach is PM heavy machine. Very few in the EV world are currently looking at a Halbach for ma$$ production. It's quite the opposite; they are looking for pm-less solutions. Like synchronous SRM's. Considering that the better solution for the average hobbyist that actually winds his own motor is to wind an adequate wye to delta serially connected machine for tangible improvement over the 12N10P wye windings that have already won many championships in various E flight classes.

[Clugh]

Hi ,
This is something you and your friends at motors by Gotha should keep in mind as it pertains to forums technical discussions and false narratives about proven winding technologies, machine failures, and solutions as well.

Honesty is absolutely critical in any technical debate for several reasons:
1. Accuracy of Information

Technical discussions rely on facts, data, and logical reasoning. If participants are dishonest—by misrepresenting data, exaggerating claims, or hiding limitations—the entire debate becomes flawed. Decisions based on false information can lead to system failures, wasted resources, or safety hazards.
2. Trust and Collaboration

Engineering and technical work often involve teams. Honesty builds trust among team members, enabling open communication and constructive problem-solving. Without trust, collaboration breaks down, and people may withhold ideas or feedback.
3. Problem-Solving Integrity

Technical debates aim to find the best solution, not to “win” an argument. If someone is dishonest to protect their ego or push an agenda, the focus shifts from solving the problem to defending positions—leading to poor outcomes.
4. Ethical and Professional Standards

Most technical fields have codes of ethics (e.g., IEEE, ASME) that emphasize honesty because technical decisions can impact public safety, financial stability, and environmental health. Dishonesty can cause catastrophic consequences.
5. Long-Term Reputation

In technical environments, credibility is everything. If someone is caught being dishonest, it damages their reputation and can affect career growth. Conversely, honesty—even when admitting mistakes—builds respect.

Sorry there is not more to report here... enjoy your subscriptions:face_with_monocle:


Remember this......

The IEEE and other such entities strive to maintain that code of ethics. The data driven information provided from such groups is not motivated by a sale or maintaining someone's ego. Intelligent individuals can clearly understand this reasoning.

Happy Hybrids....
Hubert

[Clugh]

Facts about some inverters discussed over the last few years


APD 120 F3 Rm .0011
APD 200 F3 Rm .00055
APD HV pro 300 20S Rm. .00033
APD HV pro 300 24S Rm .00091

Here are some internal resistances for YGE in comparison They can be found in the German ecalc databases hiding from the Americans.

YGE 120 Rm .0018
YGE160 HV Rm .0013


Castle's
Pheonix edge HV lite 160 Rm .0011
Castle edge lite 200 Rm .0008
Castle edge lite 130 Rm .0010

Don't care what brands people like this is reality. At WOT the YGE runs hotter with more resistance than everything else....:stuck_out_tongue:

[Clugh]

Gotha is in the house...

So look at this reality....👀

A yge 320 Rm is .0007 a scorpion Tribunis 14-300 is .00065 block commutation and so itz no doubt stronger and faster than the old antique YGE 320.
Do you all see a castle lite 200 is almost as strong as the 320 and much lighter. It is more power dense than the 320...:cry:

I know it can log 380 amperes empirically because I did it driving a Phil Thomas SS45 fully underwater like a submarine. But if you compare the YGE to even the 20S version APD it isn't even close. It literally has half the internal resistance than a 320. Twice as powerful.

Honesty will set the 8 pilots free. And the 16S version of the APD really kills a YGE 320.

This makes me seriously wonder do hobbyist just listen to people online they think knows something or do they know where to look for it and actually spec the devices for themselves . :grimacing:

The castle's still runs today . It has never been in for a repair almost 10 years now its run without a flaw in models and on the test bench. No matter who gets mad about it the YGE's are nearly at the bottom of the pile for power density. Part load operation is also inferior to the APD which has synchronous rectification.

So a much better active freewheel operation and brake with much more PWM capability on top of double the power density.

If you have a problem with this you can work it out with a fellow German, George Ohm.

Please enjoy the relevant and real specifications of your chosen device.

Hope you are "Sequre" and that no one else falls for it :bomb:

Talk to you later.
Hubert

[Clugh]

Spulen-Halbacharray



More information about a dc coil based Halbach array. Its nothing new. They don't use it because the dc excited coils suffer high losses.

Creating a Halbach array requires rotating magnetization vectors around the circumference. With permanent magnets, this is easy—just orient the blocks.

With coils, you must:

• Shape the coil geometry to produce the correct vector field.
• Drive each coil with the correct DC current magnitude and polarity.
• Manage heat, since copper coils dissipate power continuously.

This becomes:

• Bulky
• Inefficient
• Expensive
• Control‑intensive

Unless you use superconductors (HTS), the losses are too high.

Yes, coil‑based Halbach arrays exist, but only in research or specialized applications. The only practical implementations use HTS coils or patented electromagnet arrays, not conventional copper DC windings.

A pm based Halbach is much simpler and compact. It does not suffer from additional excitation losses. The hybrid wound BLDC are even simpler than that.

[Clugh]

The other thing is the build complexity. Halbach arrays are part of the rotor so a dc field excited rotor would require some type of slip ring configuration. The dc field coils would have to be able to rotate...:grimacing: and then you still have to wind the armature and control it also....

[Clugh]

If you enjoy tinkering and want to build a high-torque machine without magnets and with less control complexity, consider a 12/8 DC-excited flux switch machine. The topology is simple, featuring 6 DC field coils and 6 armature coils with a laminated rotor. This would be a very eazy machine to have the laser house cut. It also has a much higher rpm tolerance mechanically. On this one the engineers dove tailed the rotors teeth. IEEE approved as a viable form of e traction that would be more affordable without the rare earth.

[Clugh]

Spulen-Halbacharray



More information about a dc coil based Halbach array. Its nothing new. They don't use it because the dc excited coils suffer high losses.

Creating a Halbach array requires rotating magnetization vectors around the circumference. With permanent magnets, this is easy—just orient the blocks.

With coils, you must:

• Shape the coil geometry to produce the correct vector field.
• Drive each coil with the correct DC current magnitude and polarity.
• Manage heat, since copper coils dissipate power continuously.

This becomes:

• Bulky
• Inefficient
• Expensive
• Control‑intensive

Unless you use superconductors (HTS), the losses are too high.

Yes, coil‑based Halbach arrays exist, but only in research or specialized applications. The only practical implementations use HTS coils or patented electromagnet arrays, not conventional copper DC windings.

A pm based Halbach is much simpler and compact. It does not suffer from additional excitation losses. The hybrid wound BLDC are even simpler than that.

There are also other applications for a coil based Halbach array.


INTRO:

"Since 20th century, superconducting magnets have become one of the most beneficial superconducting applications, which are widely utilized in Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) and other biological equipments [1]. Superconducting magnets are able to generate magnetic fields with desirable h o m o geneity and strength up to tens of Tesla ."

You may read for yourselves.....

Optimization Study on the Magnetic Field of Superconducting Halbach Array Magnet

Boyang Shen*, Jianzhao Geng, Chao Li, Xiuchang Zhang, Lin Fu, Heng Zhang, Jun Ma, and T. A. Coombs** Electrical Engineering Division, Department of Engineering, University of Cambridge, CB3 0FA, UK

[Clugh]

Something I find interesting and somewhat new in power electronics are PST MLC's

What Are PST Multilayer Capacitors?


A PST multilayer capacitor (MLC) consists of:

• Many thin alternating layers of PST ceramic and internal electrodes
• A stacked structure that allows high electric fields at low voltages
• A macroscopic working body suitable for electrocaloric cooling

These devices are often manufactured by companies like Murata, which collaborates with academic groups on PST‑MLC research.

PST multilayer capacitors are being explored for:

• Electrocaloric cooling modules
• On‑chip thermal management
• Energy‑efficient refrigeration
• Solid‑state heat pumps

Their compact size and compatibility with existing capacitor manufacturing make them especially attractive.

[Clugh]

⚡ What Electrocaloric Cooling Is


Electrocaloric cooling uses special dielectric materials that heat up when an electric field is applied and cool down when the field is removed. This reversible temperature change is called the electrocaloric effect (ECE).

According to research, the effect comes from how electric dipoles inside the material align and disorder under electric fields

Electrocaloric (EC) cooling is a solid‑state refrigeration method based on the reversible temperature change that occurs in certain dielectric materials when an electric field is applied or removed. It’s especially relevant today because multilayer capacitors (MLCs) made from relaxor ferroelectrics like PST (PbSc₀.₅Ta₀.₅O₃) can generate large EC effects at practical voltages.
1. Basic Mechanism


EC materials contain electric dipoles that can switch between ordered and disordered states.

• Apply electric field → dipoles align → entropy decreases → material heats up
• Remove electric field → dipoles randomize → entropy increases → material cools

The cooling step is the useful part: the material ends up colder than it was before the cycle. 2. The Electrocaloric Cooling Cycle


A practical EC cooler runs a four‑step cycle:

1. Apply E‑field Material heats up due to dipole alignment.
2. Reject heat to a sink Heat is transferred out via a thermal switch or conduction path.
3. Remove E‑field Dipoles disorder and the material cools below ambient.
4. Absorb heat from the load The cold EC element pulls heat from whatever you’re trying to cool.

Repeat the cycle at high frequency and you get net heat pumping.
3. Why It Matters for Power Electronics

• 100% solid‑state (no compressors, no refrigerants)
• Potentially high efficiency near phase‑transition temperatures
• Scales well with multilayer capacitor manufacturing
• Suitable for chip‑level thermal management
• Demonstrated temperature lifts >10 K in some device architectures

Relaxor ferroelectrics like PST, PMN‑PT, and related materials are currently among the strongest EC performers, especially when built into MLC structures that allow high fields at low voltages.

[Clugh]

Chip-level cooling using a multi-layer capacitor is an intriguing idea, especially with some of the modern CoolFET dies available today. There’s also dual-side cooling for SiCFET and GaNFET devices, though they don’t respond nearly as well as Si FET devices to certain cooling methods. Cryogenics is one example—while GaN and SiC devices have unique properties like very high thermal conductivity, cryogenic cooling doesn’t seem to offer any real benefits for them.

[Clugh]

This would also be an interesting cool sink proposal for passive pump ferrofluid liquid cooling.

[Clugh]

BTW a Brand new Pyro 600 in the USA today cost 366 euro. PYRO 600-12 - KONTRONIK - Hochleistungsantriebe im RC-Modellbau

That is 424.00 dollars USD

:tada:

A Clugh Master-rebuild service for a Brenner contra drive in F3A competition airplanes includes.

A Remington industries 240*C 18 AWG 5 + 5 parallel wye winding potted in thermally conductive epoxy. It also includes a Mitsumi custom application-specific motor shaft for the Brenner contra drive, with a 4130 hardened steel axial tie-in sleeve and three orange seal ABEC 7 ceramic hybrid ball bearings, treated and lubricated with high-speed tungsten disulfide bearing grease.

The "Better" economy makes the entire proposal for a brand new Brenner drive prepped motor greater than $700.00 dollars USD .

Enjoy your day,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Gotha Winders,

Übrigens teile ich Thomas Schmidts Theorie des Synchronisationsverlusts, die er auf der Anzahl der Umdrehungen basiert, nicht. Der DDDD ist im Wechselstrombetrieb deutlich lauter als ein DD, was zu einem schnelleren Verschleiß der Magnete führt. Lärm als Ursache für einen vorzeitigen Synchronisationsverlust erscheint mir viel plausibler. Tatsächlich gibt es Informationen und praktische Daten, die dies bestätigen.

Die Desynchronisation von BLDC-Motoren wird am häufigsten durch Magnetdegradation (Hitze, Vibrationen, Alterung), mechanische Belastung, unzureichendes Wärmemanagement, Überlastung und Timing-Probleme des Controllers verursacht. Die stärksten Hinweise deuten darauf hin, dass die Desynchronisation mit der Entmagnetisierung zusammenhängt, die das für die Synchronisation erforderliche Drehmoment direkt reduziert.

Die Theorie, dass die Anzahl der Spulenwicklungen die Ursache sei, ist völlig unbegründet.

Der Betrieb mit vier parallelen Dreieckschaltungen führt mit Sicherheit zur lautesten Maschine, die man bauen kann. Zwölf unverdrillte, parallele Drähte sind nicht optimal.

Good luck,
Hubert

[Clugh]

Castle is a step ahead of me and sent this brand new and improved Cobra5 2026 as the upgrade to the XLX.

It is 32 bit with "enhanced datalogging with higher sampling rates with additional capacity and data points..."

It will rock well with the King Cobras 5340 ARNON 7 cores

[Clugh]

You’ve also got the Ghost American speed line Cobra5 ACE, along with the 8s and 12s marine versions. Nothing pushes an inverter’s power quite like an FE boat.

[Clugh]

Cobra5 12S marine version . I have to have it. Probably 2 for twins in a Catamaran or a Hydro Outrigger. I have a Martin Truex inspired twin JAE 45 rigger. The Ghost RC is another 90,000 rpm 45mm motor with a stainless sleeve on the rotor.

Two Roostertails are always more fun than one.

On the water It is surely more than 200 mph potential in two motors like this. Maybe I can take a shot at it the world record at 6 or 8 s lipo. I have had rigger design in my head now for about 4 years that can do it. In the attachment is essentially a stainless Octura V 900 cleaver series cut with an aspect ratio of 1.9

The motors can snap even aged beryllium in some cases. So the stainless is another option.

Online store DoctorProps RC - Everything for radio-controlled models

[Clugh]

You wont get any more work
.

[Clugh]

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