Alternative motor windings and drive schemes

[Clugh]

You want the hobbyist to forget about this past but what does the future hold with data less motors in 2025? Is he is ashamed of his efficiency so he doesn't want to post any specifics now.? He doesn't want someone else (Hubert) to calculate the truth so he is very closed lip now...

The Evo didn't even manage +1% Eta. so Ralph hides his constants which every other manufacture post. He always uses what the industry winds as his metrics so why now does he go rogue from the rest of the industry when its time to report the wundermotor data???

Ralph,
Did you miss the calculations that show the 4125 make more power and torque than Okons 42 series. Thats a fact based on Thomas test where you all interpreted the data incorrectly and never actually calculated the torques.... You nor Luc

If you had he would not have puhed the eject button and you wouldn't have thought you won some proxy war . An idea dreamed up by Kunzke on the German social media to explain why winding a hybrid takes 5 years...🤔

Do anyone in the world truly believe after 15 years there's no room for improvement in a said technology like motor winding?. You really think Intelligent hobbyist believe that?

Asking for motor constants and empirical data is too much to ask from the great empiricist? Is that idea really so yesteryear?

[Clugh]

What hurt me most Is Thomas doesn't realize all he has to do is put his motor in Holles calculator and the comparison is just as fair. I really do not know what you call the person if it is not ignorant. What ever skewed results he thinks the calculator gives, that "skew" is universal across the board, so yes I have a problem understanding the nonsense volleyed back n forth on the subject matter of calculator accuracy on the German social media. To simply compare the motors head to head THAT is almost irrelevant. Dr Okon...

Also why would you run a fixed timing? To prove something to me? LOL if you have auto timing use it! . If you have a motor heat monitor function in telemetry of course you use it and 100C stabilized is full continuous power you cant very well approach 180 with the rotor because it will lose adequate magnetic field for zero cross timing b4 full curie and lose synchronization.


Hubert

[Clugh]

Gerd is reading here Ralph...Croco world has been reopened but you are here looking versus there leaving EVO data.

its hilarious Ralph! For the cost of a whole new cut u hadn't gained 1 point in efficiency.

Do you like the keys i carry?

[Clugh]

What is the deal Dr Okon? The thread is reopened . You dont have anything remote to post about you winds performance beside the cots kontronic machine?
So you want to forget this past???


And what about the accuracy of your friends published calculator????

[Clugh]

A single layer in 7 turns of 13 AWG. = 33% more copper in the slot of an Align MX700

Motor Constants:
Rm .005 ohms
Kv 824
Io 3.27 amps @22.5 volts including radial fan load.
Weight 448.8 grams


Leaving constants is very easy to do for anyone that wants to be open to the pilots for their money in 2025!

In the boat simulation this is what it expects....

33,940 rpm
153 amps
Pin 6.394 kilowatts
Pout 6.125 kilowatts
Run time 3.85 minutes
Est speed 90.12 mph or 145.03408 km/h
Eff. 95.80 %

[Clugh]

This motor can be improved by better bearings and slot wedges. We can even shield the steel bearing from noise and quiet the slots and improve the cos/phi relationship on the machine lowering load amperages.

I guess it isn't possible for the leaders in Dresden or Bayern!!! What motor expert doesn't know what a slot wedge does or what Magnovol is?

What motor expert doesn't understand how critical a bearing is in excellent performance?

Okon hasn't adopted a single new piece of technology into his motors. Better bearings, lighter composite parts or, better building material like thermally conductive epoxies.

He said it himself; nothing has changed in 15 years.

What motor experts do not understand the importance of idle current in motor efficiency???



TTYL
Hubert

[Clugh]

Posted 10-12-2015

And btw I was shown the 20 pole rotor 10 years ago. The HALF PITCHED 🙄 distributed wind promised for it on 12 slots still hasn't been wound. So yes this is a real joke out of Bayern Germany.

10 years I've waited for it cap!! At what point can I dismiss it??

Count it..thats 10 years bro...
Everything I have shown you I can implement today so how is it there are no better solutions 15 years later Ralph?.

[Clugh]

Slot car motors have 3 teeth so does Lucas want a Hubertus post doc award for rewinding one 30 years ago??

Just hating that can not congratulate better ideas coming out of America . But you are here in our forums to be educated on every single one from "pocboy"


YT
Hubert

[Clugh]

and 1o years ago i was saying the same things

There is nothing new. They are still in my room trying to figure it out. Look at the residual inductance of the PM for real answers about losing synchronization at heavy loads. They think they know everything and are extremely hard head! In 10 years you don't learn anything??? WOW!

[Clugh]

What wind produced this boys??? There will not be a remote answer!! Bring in your "sinus" machine and FOC inverter. I'm ready to eat it with a brushless direct current six step drive for much less cash...

FYI
you might find a deal on quality diagnostic tools somewhere like this. An e auction.

Equipment Dispositions Inc

They have some pretty nice equipment on there.....👀

[Clugh]

Itz funny you and him.....

A V pole rotor configuration is nothing but a flux focus arrangement. The same thing he brags incessantly about with these photos from his job 😶yet he has 20 plus segments in his 41's rotor pm but simple v pole only uses 2 radial segments and halves the PM loss anyway because only half the pm material is needed divided by 2 cocked at a 45 degree angle to one another to generate more torque and better efficiency.

[Clugh]

If you can find him. You should ask him how the reverse step PM which should produce a sinus fits with a 6 step winding? It is at 100% coverage so you can ask him also how they link well with a 5mm tooth when they appear to be much wider. You can also ask him why he didn't use the flux focus arrangement and flat coils on his machine since he uses machine pressed twisted round wire. Its not even a hand wound machine in the first place. But still why do you think his pm needs all this segmentation? They experience a huge hit with the six step winding and open slots. Besides that what are the merits of the decagon linking with teeth that have a definitive arch length. The teeth don't have flat profiles on their ends. Then is the magnetization parallel or radial? You definitely will not get these answers so you look at the wave form on the scope and you see a quasi sinus.

Do I Hubert want it for my six step drive? No not really....To me it looks like he did alot of cool things but with no definitive direction on BLDC or BLAC operation.

Understand that what im trying to tell you is a simple v pole rotor configuration with much less pm material and process know how could probably achieved better results with the winding he used.

Understand that I propose to you that a simple winding arrangement can do all these things better and much cheaper using the standard hobby machine rotor and PM. No segmentation no halbach array just a rework of the terminations and layers of copper. The latest tech re tells us that the copper wire can even shield the bearings and the magnets from EMI.

Copper foil shielding and ground loops that generate noise in 3 phase operation is absolutely not new to electronics itz so 101...

Yes its truly hilarious to me how some people would even begin to doubt the effectiveness of certain things.

[Clugh]

So far 1 hobbyist has viewed the patent and only 2 have looked at his superior coil. No one not even him has executed any of it on a hobby machine.

Thats really impressive in terms of forum interest. I see you Ralph why are you camping. Im not planning on showing you what produced that trap bemf. You should know since youve tested everything... and determined ther is nothing better for your 8 pilots in 15 years....

.
Without a name being called Dr Okon the nonsense and falsehoods coming out of Dresden Germany is legendary.

Hubert

[Clugh]

Like I asked you before can you gain a simple 1 point in efficiency over your maxed out wind? So far you have not achieved it with the EVO. Thats a fact! Youve left enough data to determine that at 95% maxon eq.. the 5050 can post that.

The cooling channels only cool the core It does nothing for cooling the rotor pm Dr Okon. Until you protect the magnets and lower your idle and load currents you wont get much more out of the machine. This is how you get to the point of just posting photos because the same data is no longer interesting after 15 years no matter what calculator you put it in.



Happy Harmonics
Hubert

[Clugh]

Let me put it in German so his friends can read it then Ill get a remote response...

Bisher hat sich ein Bastler das Patent angesehen, und nur zwei haben sich seine überlegene Spule angesehen. Niemand, nicht einmal er, hat irgendetwas davon auf einer Hobbymaschine umgesetzt. Das ist wirklich beeindruckend, was das Interesse im Forum angeht. Ich verstehe dich, Ralph, warum zeltest du? Ich habe nicht vor, dir zu zeigen, was diese Trap-BEMF verursacht hat. Du solltest es wissen, denn du hast alles getestet ... und festgestellt, dass es für deine acht Piloten in 15 Jahren nichts Besseres gibt ... Ohne einen Namen, Dr. Okon, ist der Unsinn und die Lügen aus Dresden legendär.

Wie ich schon gefragt habe: Kann man bei maximaler Leistung einfach einen Punkt mehr Effizienz erreichen? Bisher ist das mit der EVO nicht gelungen. Das ist Fakt! Du hast genügend Daten hinterlassen, um zu belegen, dass die 5050 bei 95 % Maxon-Äquivalent das schaffen kann. Die Kühlkanäle kühlen nur den Kern. Zur Kühlung des Rotors tragen sie nichts bei, Dr. Okon. Solange du die Magnete nicht schützt und deine Leerlauf- und Lastströme nicht senkst, wirst du nicht viel mehr aus der Maschine herausholen. So kommst du an den Punkt, an dem du nur noch Fotos postest, weil dieselben Daten nach 15 Jahren nicht mehr interessant sind, egal in welchen Rechner du sie eingibst.

Holle sollte euch jetzt auslachen und verstehen, woran es euch mangelt.

Danke
Hubert

[Clugh]

See there is no real improvement.

[Clugh]

THE EVO


Thats three years and not a point better in efficiency as Ive said. These are facts and you say the 95% maxon is more like 78% helmut but we calculated 71% from the empirical Dr Okon. What's up with that?

[Clugh]

What the Other German winder offered is that the batteries can supply it but it is all silly az hell anyway, You test the motor with the most robust supply you could give it to test its limits. You let the pilot worry about what he can supply it and that goes all the way back to his or her inverter choice. Thats not even your problem and why would you risk killing your equipment on the bench? Thats silly from the jump.

And that is a nonsense excuse anyway.

No F3A pilot uses 10600 mah 250c SMC drag cells in his plane but on my bench that what a p600 gets. Are you serious right now and you test things that way?

Man youre going to ruin your equipment running inadequate power supplies to the bench.

Yeah man you guys are special.

SMH just carry on....

it's ridiculous. And I dont know what you call it.to be socially appropriate apparently.

[Clugh]

I guess you have a new leader now Ralph, because he post his data openly

[Clugh]

Its pretty Sexy too.... I like that...

Im not a hater like "yall" ....