Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[Hugh Wiedman]

Well, feeling just a bit "snakebit" with my F-4s these days. I had one, got abut 22 flights on it until I let it get away from me a bit and took it out too far on downwind leg. Got disoriented because I couldn't see it all that clearly, and apparently got it too slow and stalled it turning final approach leg. Totally my fault. Lawn darted it.

I harvested all the innards of the crashed plane into an ARF Plus plane, same markings. On the maiden, it was flying well, but I got it a bit low turning final leg, "goosed" it a bit to make sure I had enough speed, and looked like it would be a normal landing. Wrong! About 5 feet above the approach end of the runway, it stalled and snapped to the right, landing pretty hard. Nothing damaged on the gear, ESC, all that stuff, but did tear the forward fuselage badly near the cockpit.

Davegee

Dave, You're not the first to do that, I've stalled my Camo a couple times and the Blue Angel once during landing. On the BA, got too far out like you and slowed down too much (lost some orientation so we probably have the same set of eyes ) but managed to get it back level and into a high alpha at about 60 degrees, punched it and it managed to drop to earth at that angle way out in a dirt field on the opposite side of a canal (thought it went in at first). A little damage to the front of the fuselage leaving it slightly bent. On the Camo, got it into a too high nose up on take-off, stalled left, then managed to get it level and in a hover for what seemed like an eternity, but got it moving forward again since I had enough altitude. The second time I started to get it to stall on approach, punched it, (the 12 blade inrunner helped there), got it level again but ended up 2 feet off the ground in another hover at 90 degrees. Reduced throttle and set it down tail first in the grass with no damage. One of the guys at the field who watched this craziness unfold commented "now that's something you don't see everyday". Have no idea how I got them to hover and couldn't do it again to save my life, but this airframe will stall relatively early. My opinion is that if you have an F-4 that ain't somewhat beat up and maybe a little bent, it needs to be flown a lot more by someone like me!

[Dwalkerp47]

Dave, You're not the first to do that, I've stalled my Camo a couple times and the Blue Angel once during landing. On the BA, got too far out like you and slowed down too much (lost some orientation so we probably have the same set of eyes ) but managed to get it back level and into a high alpha at about 60 degrees, punched it and it managed to drop to earth at that angle way out in a dirt field on the opposite side of a canal (thought it went in at first). A little damage to the front of the fuselage leaving it slightly bent. On the Camo, got it into a too high nose up on take-off, stalled left, then managed to get it level and in a hover for what seemed like an eternity, but got it moving forward again since I had enough altitude. The second time I started to get it to stall on approach, punched it, (the 12 blade inrunner helped there), got it level again but ended up 2 feet off the ground in another hover at 90 degrees. Reduced throttle and set it down tail first in the grass with no damage. One of the guys at the field who watched this craziness unfold commented "now that's something you don't see everyday". Have no idea how I got them to hover and couldn't do it again to save my life, but this airframe will stall relatively early. My opinion is that if you have an F-4 that ain't somewhat beat up and maybe a little bent, it needs to be flown a lot more by someone like me![/QUOTE]

Hugh & Dave, the same experience happened to me with my F-4. I have one of the original Freewing F-4's dating back over 3 years when they first started producing this Jet. A couple of months ago, I was not paying attention to my speed when I turned on to Base and ended up tucking the F-4. Fortunately, I got extremely lucky and was able to pull the Jet into almost a hover like you did Hugh and it "pancaked" in some tall grass behind some trees. When we walked up to the plane, I expected to see a pile of foam. The only damage was that the main gear on both wings had pushed up the foam on top of the wings. My repairs are all done except for some airbrushing. Based on your recommendation Hugh, I've upgraded the old Outrunner to the Freewing 4068-1835Kv 12 Blade Inrunner. I'm anxious to get this Bird back up in the air with the upgraded Fan. My F-4 is also equipped with the JP Hobby Brakes along with Xicoy Controller. I have Chris Wolfe's Multiburner installed along with a couple of Jet Whistles. Of all the EDF's that I own, this is my favorite Jet. The video was taken at this year's Jet Jam in Elizabeth, Indiana. Full Throttle with brakes on take-off was with the old Outrunner Fan. What a blast...

[Madness]

The upgraded F-4 MRC now sells comes with the 9 Blade 3672-1900Kv inrunner (6S version) with the same FW 130 amp ESC it's always had (same in all their 90mm 6S jets). Since you picked yours up from some previous owners, I'm sure it has the older 9 Blade 3748-1750 Kv outrunner. That's the fan I had for some time in both my F-4's, but just recently upgraded them both to the 12 blade 4068-1835 Kv inrunner, a real beast! It now flies incredible, IMO, especially compared to the old outrunner. Similar to the 8S version, but with slightly less flight time and a hair less speed. I'm currently getting 4 minutes on a 6000 mah battery with the 12 blade inrunners, but the speed and flight characteristics are far improved over the old outrunner you most likely have, so the upgrade isn't just about increased flight time.

Both of the 6S inrunners are drop in fits, and are fine on the stock FW 130 amp ESC. If you're flying off of grass, as I do, I would recommend the 12 blade inrunner. On the other hand, if you are on asphalt, or even just considering the price difference, the 9 blade inrunner is great as well. If you intend to fly this regularly, I definitely recommend you upgrade to one of the inrunners!

Hi Hugh! I have a question on your F4 flight time. Are those 4 minutes of actual throttle usage (when the timer stops when throttle is at 0%) or does your timer keeps running regardless of throttle position? I am just trying to decide if I should go with the 6S or 8S version of the plane. I mostly looking for more flight time, not much overall speed. Thanks for your feedback.

[Evan D]

Stay 6s and use one of the lighter 8000 batteries.

[locharrow]

Bumming .....grabbed a flight at lunch time and it was puuuurfic!!! Landing....if the wheels were eggs they would still be whole ..............

Madness.... 6s Freewing 1835 or FMS 1850 inrunners will give you all you need +

[davegee]

Dave, You're not the first to do that, I've stalled my Camo a couple times and the Blue Angel once during landing. On the BA, got too far out like you and slowed down too much (lost some orientation so we probably have the same set of eyes ) but managed to get it back level and into a high alpha at about 60 degrees, punched it and it managed to drop to earth at that angle way out in a dirt field on the opposite side of a canal (thought it went in at first). A little damage to the front of the fuselage leaving it slightly bent. On the Camo, got it into a too high nose up on take-off, stalled left, then managed to get it level and in a hover for what seemed like an eternity, but got it moving forward again since I had enough altitude. The second time I started to get it to stall on approach, punched it, (the 12 blade inrunner helped there), got it level again but ended up 2 feet off the ground in another hover at 90 degrees. Reduced throttle and set it down tail first in the grass with no damage. One of the guys at the field who watched this craziness unfold commented "now that's something you don't see everyday". Have no idea how I got them to hover and couldn't do it again to save my life, but this airframe will stall relatively early. My opinion is that if you have an F-4 that ain't somewhat beat up and maybe a little bent, it needs to be flown a lot more by someone like me!

Thanks, Hugh! Commiserating with guys like you and Locharrow about our trials and tribulations makes me feel better that I'm hardly alone with these issues. One of our club members once said "Eventually, they ALL come back in a body bag!"

The F-4 is basically dialed in again in its new "bent" flying scheme, but on my second flight yesterday, I was able to more or less complete the trimming out in all configurations so that it is flying its best. I look forward to taking it up again, once the winds and weather improve enough for me to go flying again.

Cheers

davegee

[davegee]

Bumming .....grabbed a flight at lunch time and it was puuuurfic!!! Landing....if the wheels were eggs they would still be whole ..............

Madness.... 6s Freewing 1835 or FMS 1850 inrunners will give you all you need +

Well done, Locharrow!!!

davegee

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hi Hugh! I have a question on your F4 flight time. Are those 4 minutes of actual throttle usage (when the timer stops when throttle is at 0%) or does your timer keeps running regardless of throttle position? I am just trying to decide if I should go with the 6S or 8S version of the plane. I mostly looking for more flight time, not much overall speed. Thanks for your feedback.

That's with "useful throttle time", whatever the hell that is. My timer stops below 25% throttle. I completely agree with Evan D and locharrow, the 6S inrunner should give you all you need. And the suggestion to use an 8000 mah is sound as well. I fly both my F-4's as I said on an SMC 6S 6200 mah 40C which weighs 814 gr. I would recommend the SMC 8100 mah 20C (actually tests out to more like a true 25C) and weighs 898 gr. if you want a larger capacity battery (the F-4 will have no problem with that-actually used to use a 6000 weighing 872 gr with no issues). I have a couple of those SMC 8100's, but use them exclusively in my F-16 (also with the 12 blade inrunner) to get just under 5 minutes of flight time and frankly don't see any difference in flight or take-off characteristics from using the 6200 mah. One of these days I'll drop it in the F-4 and give it a whirl, but the F-16 usually ends up at the field with it and jealously keeps those batteries to itself. I also have the F-4's trimmed and balanced to where I like it so usually just fly it with the 6200 (yes, I'm somewhat lazy).

This in no way is a knock on the 8S; a friend has one and he does get a bit more time on it and he also likes to fly it more consistently at a faster pace than I do. I just don't have enough of the 4S batteries to go with an 8S system (and don't want to invest in more Lipos), so the increased cost in ESC/Fan/Additional Batteries has kept me on 6S. I regularly fly 12 EDF's and about 10 Prop planes all are on 6S so that's just the way I roll.

[Madness]

thanks for your feedback guys! I crashed mine a few months ago and my garage looks so sad without the F4, I really loved that plane. This is going to be my Christmas gift!

[Hugh Wiedman]

thanks for your feedback guys! I crashed mine a few months ago and my garage looks so sad without the F4, I really loved that plane. This is going to be my Christmas gift!

If you have sufficient batteries for an 8S system, the 8S F-4 is only $60 more than the 6S system ($659 vs $599). For that small difference (especially for Christmas) I would recommend the 8S system assuming you don't have to buy a bunch of new batteries. I put the 6S 12 blade inrunner in both my F-4's only because they originally came with a somewhat underpowered 6S 1750Kv 9 blade outrunner and I fly off grass and thought the 12 blade gave me better 0-60 start than the 9 blade (maybe a misnomer?). As much as I like the 12 blade inrunner, it is a bit pricy. The stock 6S comes with the 9 blade 1900 Kv inrunner which is sufficient, especially if you fly off asphalt. I wouldn't go to an ARF just to put the 6S 12 blade in, as that will end up costing you about $797 all in with the ESC, so for that cost, the 8S is a MUCH better option. That 8S will leave nothing to complain about if you're so inclined!

[locharrow]

Hugh don't tempt me...still have an empty F4 and 4s batteries lying around New esc and motor and I'd be good to go 8s ...............I was happy up until you posted...

[locharrow]

Nope....don't need 8s ....just .back from a couple of good flights and 6s does the job fine. If you want speed take it way up and point the nose straight down for a couple of hundred feet and level out smoothly... my pants when it passed me! ....FMS fan sounds great, specially when it is winding down coming into land.

[locharrow]

Doesn't get any better...great day ...no footballers or dogwalkers ...pure white sky ... great plane ...three flawless fights. Something has to go wrong soon ...surely................. .

[locharrow]

Right guys...something controversial ...The F4 is flying great but looks like ....what do I do fly it as is or take it to bits and refurbish ?? (big job)

[Hugh Wiedman]

Right guys...something controversial ...The F4 is flying great but looks like ....what do I do fly it as is or take it to bits and refurbish ?? (big job)

My 2 cents, just keep flying the out of it! I have no "jitters" when it comes to flying my camo F4, even though it does have a few minor painting/graphics/detailed cockpit work, but when I take out my virtually identical F4 Blue Angel, I always have this stupid voice in the back of my head saying "Now don't screw this flight up since you worked so hard on the repaint". As long as it "Takes a Licking and Keeps on Ticking", all is good! Besides, the real F-4's after years of combat tended to look a bit ragged as well, so just call it "In Flight Weathering".

[nuts-n-volts]

Totally agree with HW there. You can always buy a second one and finish it up right. But this airplane was never a pretty pony and is just too much fun to fly!

[locharrow]

Totally agree with HW there. You can always buy a second one and finish it up right. But this airplane was never a pretty pony and is just too much fun to fly!

Have a new one on the dining room table but ?? ........... will it look any better in a vertical corkscrew climb ???????

[jasmith41]

Had the same issue with cont beeping esc, receiver, or whatever it was and I determined that I left the battery plugged in too long after calibrating the ESC...
I repeated the procedure and unplugged batt as soon as the initial throttle calibration was done and the cont beeping issue went away...

Marc, $39 F4...??? I'll take it. Freewing or E-Flite...? Probably be there Thurs AM if weather doesn't suck too much...😆

[jasmith41]

Had the same issue with cont beeping esc, receiver, or whatever it was and I determined that I left the battery plugged in too long after calibrating the ESC...
I repeated the procedure and unplugged batt as soon as the initial throttle calibration was done and the cont beeping issue went away...

[locharrow]

So anyway ..I'm thinking about converting the tail hook into a ploughshare .................

This is normal after a football game! The underside of the plane needs power washing but would that be good for the electrics...........anybody ???