Official Freewing 90mm F-4 Phantom II Thread

[jasmith41]

Will wonders never cease. Opened up the elevator bays on both F-4's (since it's been raining and no flying) and found that I had already upgraded the control rods and the ball links. Must have done it a while ago during one of my rare lucid moments. Now I know why it's lasted so long!

I hate when that happens... but it's also somewhat refreshing to know we still do have some marbles... it's that we forget where we put them that hurts more...🤣🤣🤣
I'm right there with you...

[Hugh Wiedman]

Hi Hugh and Coconut,

Hugh I am happy to hear you will be replacing the FFS ball link!!!!!!

-GG

Will wonders never cease. Opened up the elevator bays on both F-4's (since it's been raining and no flying) and found that I had already upgraded the control rods and the ball links. Must have done it a while ago during one of my rare lucid moments. Now I know why it's lasted so long!

[Coconut]

Thanks for the info, everyone. I appreciate it.

[Evan D]

Here is what mine looked like after a few flights, by a few I mean just three... And my replacement.

Mine was an early one and FreeWing may be using the heavier duty ball links that come in some kits like the MiG-29.

[GliderGuy]

Hi Hugh and Coconut,

Hugh - Sorry….The RF choke info was more for the benefit of Coconut. I am happy to hear you will be replacing the FFS ball link!!!!!!

Hi Coconut - You now have the info you asked for and more. The F-4 is a great bird! One final note: You might think she needs to be flown fast on final. NOPE: That’s a mistake that will earn you a busted nose gear pin. She will float in nicely with a touch of power and touch mains first. But, you may want to order a few spare nose gear pins anyway for while you learn to land her.

-GG

[Hugh Wiedman]

GliderGuy OK, OK, I'll replace them! Already have the RF chokes in from your earlier recommendation.

[GliderGuy]

Oh my gosh Hugh….

I respect you, man. But a rich poker player you ain’t gonna be.

Your flight #70+ will go like this (ask me how I know)…,

1) Stock ball link snaps (yes snaps in two).
2) FFSs lock full up.
3) F-4 goes into a nose high saber dance
4) F-4 eats dirt
5) Pilot does the WALK OF SHAME to a pile of foam which HOPEFULLY DIDN’T damage something on the ground or injure someone!

Really….The ball link broke!!!!

Don’t fly with the stock elevator ball link unless you love playing a loosing hand. It is a known issue for the F-4!!!!! It is the reason why I am on F-4 #3!

F-4 #1 was lost due to a radio glitch which occurred BEFORE I began using RF Chokes. Search on choke or RF choke and read and learn AND USE THEM on this bird. She benefits from them. I have had no radio issues with the F-4 since installing RF chokes. (Soap box speech).

-GG

[Hugh Wiedman]

Did you do the modifications to the elevator rods, lingages, and servos? If you did or if anyone else did can I please have the parts #? I want the F4. But, haven't bought it because of the modifications that needs to be done to the elevator. If I knew exactly what to buy then I would get the F4.

Definitely a good idea to do the elevator mods, but I like livin' on the edge! I have 2 F-4's and have only beefed up the servo mounts with marine plywood and put a carbon fiber tube over the existing control rod. The ball links and a better servo are great ideas, but I figure I'll commit one of my many "pilot errors" before the elevator "system" causes a problem. If/when it does, I'll at least have an excuse to blame a problem on something other than my own pilot shortcomings. With that said, both F-4s have over 70 flights and no issues yet.

You may also want to change the nose gear pin as some guys are breaking those on landings, causing a whole host of other "repair" issues. I initially replaced mine by modifying a Spitfire 1600mm main axel, which will bend and not break. I did change it back to the stock nose pins about 40 flights ago and have yet to break a nose pin, but then I think I've got the landing technique down a lot better than I did when I first bought these several years ago when they still came with the crummy outrunners (immediately upgraded both to the 12 blade inrunner- but I think the stock 9 blade inrunner is fine, especially if you fly off asphalt). The stock nose pin will actually take a little more abuse without breaking than the Spitfire axel will as it will bend in a landing that the stock pin would not break at. But there is that fine line of just how much force before it does break. I conducted a very scientific experiment using a hammer and noted it takes a lot more force to break the stock pin than it does to bend the modified axel. Just land with the nose up and as slow as you feel comfortable at.

[GliderGuy]

Did you do the modifications to the elevator rods, lingages, and servos? If you did or if anyone else did can I please have the parts #? I want the F4. But, haven't bought it because of the modifications that needs to be done to the elevator. If I knew exactly what to buy then I would get the F4.

Suggest the following:

1) A 4-40 threaded rod which you will cut to length
2) DU BRO 4-40 secure lock

https://www.motionrc.com/products/du-bro-4-40-safety-lock-kwik-link-12-pack-dub818?variant=1328827465753&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIiNCipvjJ-AIVISCtBh0cdgRtEAQYAyABEgK9-fD_BwE

3) DU BRO 4-40 heavy duty ball link

https://www.dubro.com/products/heavy-duty-ball-links

It is also a good idea (since it is critical) to install a high quality high torque elevator servo.

One suggestion: MKS HV69. It is smaller, so you will need to make a plywood mount.

https://www.mksservosusa.com/product.php?productid=243&cat=6&page=1

-GG

[Evan D]

I did but used parts I had on hand. There are a lot of pictures in the RCG thread.

[Coconut]

Did you do the modifications to the elevator rods, lingages, and servos? If you did or if anyone else did can I please have the parts #? I want the F4. But, haven't bought it because of the modifications that needs to be done to the elevator. If I knew exactly what to buy then I would get the F4.

[jetpltrich]

Update F-4 flights 2, 3, and 4:

I've concluded this plane is the dirty little secret in the Freewing line up of EDF planes. Flights 2, 3, 4 were conducted at an abandoned airport near my place and performed early in the morning when there was no wind and the sun was just coming up so it was still cool. My warm up was with the L-39 to get myself in the groove, then I switched to the F-4. After consulting with GG postflight from the first it was decided to increase flap/elev mix to equate to 1/8" per selection, UP, Takeoff, Landing selection... that equated to -5% on my Futaba radio. I also increased the expo on Aileron and Elevator to enhance flight behavior. I did a thorough examination of the flap/ailerons position because the first flight required 4-5 clicks of right aileron trim. I noted the right flap was not properly aligned and tweaked it.

Flight 2: The takeoff was predictable and I climbed and did a 360 overhead and sucked the gear up then the flaps as I went overhead level flight and no appreciable changed in flight was noted. Of particular interest to me was the flap/elev mix seemed to be spot on, good gouge from GG. Aileron expo seemed to be perfect but elevator was still touchy. I took off with T/O flaps and landed with them as well. The remainder of the flight went smooth and was done at 1/2 throttle. I have noticed this plane will scoot along and if one isn't used to that she will fly away and out of visual rapidly. So at 1/2 throttle and staying close was the order of the day. The landing was super and again she presented that classic F-4 approach stance, touchdown was mains with a gentle settling of the nose. The takeaway is this plane is a floater and there is no need to come in hot. A successful second flight with a tweak of the elevator expo being the only thing needed.

Flights 3-4: Flight 3 was an absolute pleasure with flight 4 pretty much a carbon copy. Takeoff was with T/O flaps and with my knowledge of the flap/elev mix I sucked the gear up right away and started the flaps up as well and the acceleration was mind blowing so a decrease in power was needed. On the downwind I pitched up about 2-3 degrees and did a gentle roll, how awesome, perfect with little loss of altitude upon roll out, love it! After flying for a while learning more and more the timer went off and I slowed to a crawl with no flaps and noted the nose increase as I maintained level flight and put down T/O flaps followed by the gear. Turning base to final and with reduced power I put down landing flaps and a little elevator back pressure was required but minimal, I also added a tad of power slowly reducing to idle and she really got the nose up. Coming in on approach was with a tad of power pretty much to touchdown reducing ever so slightly for ground effect, touchdown was with a higher nose up attitude and absolutely flawless. Again she presented the classic approach stance with an even higher nose up really making it look like I was on deck waiting with my arm de-arm crew to pin the missiles. Love it!!!

Flight 4: Went off flawlessly but with a change in direction of t/o landing, form north to south due to a slight breeze from the south. Much quicker takeoff with the south breeze. I did a few more rolls and yanked and cranked. One flyby was at 3/4 throttle and it was mind blowing. Aircraft configuration throughout all flights has been with wing tanks and this plane could careless what's hanging on it, it will scoot! Landing into the with was the same as flight 3 and touchdown was awesome. My arm de-arm crew de-armed her and I was done for the day, I was soaked with sweat just like when I was on deck of the USS Midway in the Indian Ocean.

Batteries used on these flights are the SMC 6200 Graphene Extreme V2,s. Timer was set at 4:30 with max at 5:00. In each case battery was at 50% respectfully end of flight. SMC's are my battery of choice going forward.

Thanks to GG for the gouge on setting up this plane.

Royal Navy F-4K Phantom FG.1 landing on HMS Ark Royal (R09) - YouTube

[Evan D]

Thank you guys! Yes I remember the missions. two days before Christmas '79 I left the Midway while on Gonzo, transferred to the USNS San Jose and rode her to Dodge where I caught a C-5 to Cali and then a commercial plane to home, Merritt Island FL, for leave before reporting to my new duty, VA-66 at Cecil attached to the Ike. I was back on Gonzo like three months later and spent the rest of '80 on station. We were supposed to get three inports that cruise, Mombasa, Perth, and Singapore. Two got cancelled and we got two beers each cancellation and another two when SECNAV came out to visit. Rumor was we were getting a Presidential Commendation, never happened but we got two beers. That cruise was called the six pack cruise and we got a certificate, yay...

Some pics from '80 on Ike. That's me hanging from the bomb rack of one of our A-7E's during a steel beach picnic, probably one of the beer days. The RA-5C's were from the Ranger in Cubi after the accident Taken from The Midway at the weapons pier. The A-6E was on Kitty Hawk during the world cruise, I think '87.

[Grossman56]

WOW GUYS! Those pictures are awesome! First of all, even if it sounds a little clique, THANKYOU FOR YOUR SERVICE! It can't be said enough.
My buddy Charlie Brown (OV10)was there as well, he had a book with him last time I saw him at NEFI, a commemorative of the carrier he served on, pretty cool.
It's easy, what with all the talk of batteries and mods and accessories etc to forget that these airplanes represent such a time in your lives the likes of which the rest of us who were not directly involved with them will never know.
I appreciate the pictures immensely, but I appreciate you guys even more.
Thank you

Grossman56

[jetpltrich]

Like these memories? The traps were April '79 underway to replace USS Ranger after hitting the tanker in the Malacca Straights...


Congrats!

I remember that like it was yesterday. If you recall, shortly after we got on Gonzo Station 2 Marine Corp RF-4's showed up and within days we were launching them late in the evening and they would return in the early hours of the morning, loadout was two wing tanks and two AIM-9's. What was their mission? They mapped the ill fated attempt to rescue the embassy hostages. Those pics are awesome. If I can find any of my old pics I'll post.

Rich

[Evan D]

Yes, the batteries instantly want to equalize in voltage and pass a lot of current. Can burn up the adapter, ruin batteries or if there's a lot of difference with say a 6s and 2s battery to make 8s could really be bad and start a fire.

I bought a couple of "series' adapters on amazon, but they were parallel adapters, not series as advertised and the 4s and 3s batts i was trying to make a 7s out of heated up fast and immediately. I called them defective and shoved them back up the vendor's behind and order a different set that worked great. Be careful... Apparently diff voltage batts hooked up in parallel doesn't work and may burn something up...

[Evan D]

Like these memories? The traps were April '79 underway to replace USS Ranger after hitting the tanker in the Malacca Straights...


Congrats!

Finally maidened my F-4 this evening. A few tense moments but trimmed it out and now I have post flight knowledge to help with the next flight.

GG was a huge help getting the initial and post flight setup. Of course being a 150 miles away texting helped a bunch.

The highlight of the flight was turning final and seeing that classic F-4 approach stance coming in. I got goose bumps and flashback memories from my time in the Navy while on the flight deck of the USS Midway back in 1979-1980.

[jasmith41]

You are using a parallel adapter. You need a series adapter.

I bought a couple of "series' adapters on amazon, but they were parallel adapters, not series as advertised and the 4s and 3s batts i was trying to make a 7s out of heated up fast and immediately. I called them defective and shoved them back up the vendor's behind and order a different set that worked great. Be careful... Apparently diff voltage batts hooked up in parallel doesn't work and may burn something up...

[jetpltrich]

Finally maidened my F-4 this evening. A few tense moments but trimmed it out and now I have post flight knowledge to help with the next flight.

GG was a huge help getting the initial and post flight setup. Of course being a 150 miles away texting helped a bunch.

The highlight of the flight was turning final and seeing that classic F-4 approach stance coming in. I got goose bumps and flashback memories from my time in the Navy while on the flight deck of the USS Midway back in 1979-1980.

[GliderGuy]

Also…..Use this technique!!!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ioZTAJttGU

Align FFS = how to

You’ll need to do the adjustments with the set screws on each FFS since there is only one servo.

It’s a sure-fire way get things aligned.

-GG